285 réponses à ce sujet

[AngryFrozenWater]

ME3's paragon Shepard randomly changes believing that the war can be won to doubt. Characters like Garrus are amplifying that doubt. Because of these random changes I rather play a renegade in ME3 than a paragon, while still maintaining the main paragon choices (which are few anyway). That way Shepard feels more consistent.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 18 août 2012 - 06:04 .

[Taboo]

It isn't handled well. The way it's utilized in ME3 is as forced symbolism, which is disgusting.

They should have had separate dreams for Shepard. One for each LI would have been far better than chasing a little boy around in a forest and then trying to grab him.

It's so ****ing dumb.

[tyrvas]

Mr.House wrote...

tyrvas wrote...

TookYoCookies wrote...

PTSD causes you to have nightmares about little boys?

Shepard dream/nightmare is not of little boys, but of a boy he could not save.
The destruction he has witnessed triggers it, he even hears all his dead friends
in the dream.

You mean the boy who outright told her she could not save him? Ya... My Shepard did not care at that point. I just headcanon she was sad about the other people on the shuttle who died and the kid in her nightmares was just messing with her mind, because my Shepard would not care if someone died during something when they outright refused her help and told her so.

The dreams should have been about the friends who have died, Not some random kid who refused help.

OK, but what I believe happened is the following...
He sees a boy playing. All seems ok, we are on Earth, home, safe.
Suddenly...
The image of the boy playing 5mins ago is still fresh, now destruction is present.
The boy seems to be everywhere Shepard is, is it true or is his mind playing tricks.
Before leaving the last thing he sees is the destruction of the shuttles (with boy inside).
Earth is being hit all over and he cannot do anything about it.
In his dreams/nightmares the boy represents earth. Remember we need to take Earth back, save it.

Modifié par tyrvas, 18 août 2012 - 06:08 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Bioware and PTSD

You know, let's just not go there because fans are insane - in another thread (complaining about paragon Shepard not summarily executing Sidonis in the streets in ME2), they argued that euthanasia/killing him was the right thing to do.

In ME3, there is an option to grant that commando's request to have a gun - no doubt, many fans will think that that's the "merciful" option.

Hint: It isn't. We treat people with mental illness, and help them get better. We don't kill them because they're momentarily feeling down.

[Han Shot First]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Dunno about anyone else, but I don't really need my escapist entertainment to inform me of the fact that war is a horrible, traumatizing thing, especially when it desperately attempts to make me play the mass slaughter-based MP at the same time. The hypocrisy is disturbing.

Just my opinion...but if you are going to create a game with war as a backdrop, it should be portrayed realistically rather than as an adventure. All those WW2 shooters that fall into the latter are a bit offensive, and ultimately whitewash the sacrifices of the men who fought that war rather than pay tribute to it.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 18 août 2012 - 06:09 .

[Juggle]

Ehehe, not everyone have PTSD. Just sayin...

My grandfather and my grandmother's brother both fought during World War II. They went from Moscow to Berlin and had no PTSD after it's all over. I know what I'm talking about.

And force these stupid dreams on every Shepard was wrong. Everyone play differently and have different Shepard. But it seems BW forgot about it in the third game.

[SackofCat]

I didn't even realize that was their intention and, considering my background, I would have if it resembled PTSD at all. I know that you asked us to distregard the quality but a more realistic portrayal would have gone a lot further in dispelling stigma, which I assume is your reason for lauding this decision.

That being said, I suppose if the audience actually associate those dreams with PTSD then it may help a bit. I still can't help but get the impression that the dream sequences were never meant to be such a social statement.

[D24O]

IMO the dreams should've changed depending on the choices you make each arc. For example, if you sabotage the genophage you dream of Eve, or Wrex if he's alive. And if not, you dream of Mordin. Having the same dream over and over got really annoying.

[Mysten]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Also, having some little kid Shepard had nothing to do with be the focus is strange when Shepard is responsible for the deaths of 300,000 batarians, which, presumably, includes innocent children.

Yes, but they are all nameless, faceless numbers. The child who is killed on Earth is being watched by Shepard before James interrupts her playing innocently, completely obliviopus to the impending threat which Shepard appears to enjoy. Then, after fleeing from Shepard, the child is killed by a Reaper which is unconcerned with attacking the Normandy and Shepard who are as easy a target but are saved by the Reapers' invasion strategy which focesses on brutally terrorizing civillian populations.

Let's recap: a harmless child, the embodiement of pure innocence, is killed on Earth only moments short of being evacuated safely whilst Shepard, an open and easy target, hovers within attack range but is saved by virtue of being everything the child isn't.

That's got to hurt.

[Han Shot First]

JDeelane wrote...

My grandfather and my grandmother's brother both fought during World War II. They went from Moscow to Berlin and had no PTSD after it's all over. I know what I'm talking about.

Most people who experience PTSD don't talk about it. Particularly people from that generation. Men from that generation weren't the types to tell their wives in the morning, "I had that nightmare again." They stayed silent, went to work, and raised their kids as if nothing was wrong.

I'm not saying that it isn't possible that they didn't experience symptoms. Only that you can't say for sure whether or not they did.

[Juggle]

Han Shot First wrote...

Most people who experience PTSD don't talk about it. Particularly people from that generation. Men from that generation weren't the types to tell their wives in the morning, "I had that nightmare again." They stayed silent, went to work, and raised their kids as if nothing was wrong.

I'm not saying that it isn't possible that they didn't experience symptoms. Only that you can't say for sure whether or not they did.

No.
Like I said, I know what I'm talking about. If I had doubts, I wouldn't be writing this here, you know.

[TookYoCookies]

Ozida wrote...

Idea was nice. Execution was terrible.

QFT.

[AngryFrozenWater]

JDeelane wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Most people who experience PTSD don't talk about it. Particularly people from that generation. Men from that generation weren't the types to tell their wives in the morning, "I had that nightmare again." They stayed silent, went to work, and raised their kids as if nothing was wrong.

I'm not saying that it isn't possible that they didn't experience symptoms. Only that you can't say for sure whether or not they did.

No.
Like I said, I know what I'm talking about. If I had doubts, I wouldn't be writing this here, you know.

The father of my brother in law had to work in a WW2 labor camp. For many years he stayed silent about it, until he got older a few years back. In the last years of his life half of the time he could not tell the difference between the hospital he was in or being in that labor camp. He died a few weeks ago. We cannot tell how it effected his "normal" life, because he never spoke about it.

[samb]

  Yeah, I have to agree with this. The war is taking it toll on Shep and he has expressed this in privite conversation with his/her friends (if you picked paragon). 
It would help to list the symptoms of PTSD if you expect a real discussion of it and how it relates to the game.  Here are the big ones:

1)flashbacks: don't see this with Shep, but Kelly illustrated it nicely. It's as if the event was reoccurring all over again. Details are engraved into your memory and anything resembling them can trigger a flashback. 
2) avoidance of triggers: vets often dislike 4th of July fireworks because the sounds remind them of gunfire, which can trigger a flashback. 
3) nightmares: many people can avoid triggers and flashbacks, but they can't escape the dreams. This leads to poor sleep which will take a toll. Shep even says bluntly "I didn't get what you call a good night's rest". 
4) all the above symptoms are in reaction to a traumatic event. This could be a life threatening event to either yourself or being a witness. 

BW was surprisingly insightful. Most PTSD is brought out by witnessing the death of a child. I had a patient who was a marine in Iraq during the 90's. He had seen friends killed, been shot 3 times and never had full blown PTSD.  But when he saw an Iraqi kid get gunned down by his own squad (they thought he was a suicide bomber, they were wrong) he got it full blown. He's not the only one who this has happened to. Something about seeing kids die just shatters things. Even if the kid was just a stranger. 

[Juggle]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
The father of my brother in law had to work in a WW2 labor camp. For many years he stayed silent about it, until he got older a few years back. In the last years of his life half of the time he could not tell the difference between the hospital he was in or being in that labor camp. He died a few weeks ago. We cannot tell how it effected his "normal" life, because he never spoke about it.

Yes, because he never spoke about it. By the way, sorry for your loss.

However, we talked about many things, about war, their dead friends and much more. Believe me, this is my family and I know what I'm talking about.
There are psychologically stable people. Not everyone have PTSD. This is a fact.

Modifié par JDeelane, 18 août 2012 - 06:36 .

[tyrvas]

exactly not everyone have PTSD, but Shep has. It may not be in it's worst form, but it's present.

Modifié par tyrvas, 18 août 2012 - 06:40 .

[Juggle]

tyrvas wrote...

exactly not everyone have PTSD, but Shep has.

Not my Shep.
But who gave me the right to choose, right? This is not a RPG, after all

[Ticonderoga117]

You know, it may be a "neat thing" to see Shepard have something more human about him with that kind of reaction, but you know, I feel it doesn't fit. We lost a friend, faced down mecha-Cthulu and took him down, then had to crawl out from his debris. Then we died, came back, walked into a verifiable hell, killed ANOTHER mecha-Cthulu that looked somewhat human, and now you're telling me that Vent Kid who wins the Darwin Award breaks something in Shep's head so that he can't stop dreaming about him?

C'mon. C'mon....

Shepard, imo, should've either felt it earlier, or never. Shepard knew the Reapers were on the way, not like this was unexpected.

[Han Shot First]

JDeelane wrote...

 Not everyone have PTSD. This is a fact.

While that is true, it is also true that no one is immune to it. Every person has a breaking point. It's just a question of whether or not they reach it.

[Hendrik.III]

Agreed, too many shooters and action games have their protagonist suffer nothing but glory. But alas, BW tried but failed to make it come across well enough.

[JBONE29]

Yes, I do think Shepard should have suffered from PTSD, but it should have been handled better. Give Shepard outbursts, show it on his/her face, show how hard life has become for Shepard after the war. Don't put in minigames that are just boring.

[christrek1982]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It isn't handled well. The way it's utilized in ME3 is as forced symbolism, which is disgusting.

They should have had separate dreams for Shepard. One for each LI would have been far better than chasing a little boy around in a forest and then trying to grab him.

It's so ****ing dumb.

I get what the team where trying to do with this and it was a nice Idea but it would of been so much better if they did somthing more personal like the LI or the chosen back story of your shepard.

[SackofCat]

I agree that Kelly is not a bad example of PTSD.