285 réponses à ce sujet

[christrek1982]

samb wrote...

  Yeah, I have to agree with this. The war is taking it toll on Shep and he has expressed this in privite conversation with his/her friends (if you picked paragon). 
It would help to list the symptoms of PTSD if you expect a real discussion of it and how it relates to the game.  Here are the big ones:

1)flashbacks: don't see this with Shep, but Kelly illustrated it nicely. It's as if the event was reoccurring all over again. Details are engraved into your memory and anything resembling them can trigger a flashback. 
2) avoidance of triggers: vets often dislike 4th of July fireworks because the sounds remind them of gunfire, which can trigger a flashback. 
3) nightmares: many people can avoid triggers and flashbacks, but they can't escape the dreams. This leads to poor sleep which will take a toll. Shep even says bluntly "I didn't get what you call a good night's rest". 
4) all the above symptoms are in reaction to a traumatic event. This could be a life threatening event to either yourself or being a witness. 

BW was surprisingly insightful. Most PTSD is brought out by witnessing the death of a child. I had a patient who was a marine in Iraq during the 90's. He had seen friends killed, been shot 3 times and never had full blown PTSD.  But when he saw an Iraqi kid get gunned down by his own squad (they thought he was a suicide bomber, they were wrong) he got it full blown. He's not the only one who this has happened to. Something about seeing kids die just shatters things. Even if the kid was just a stranger. 

that is a very good and insightful point thank you.

[Gibril]

On what OP said, Yes, I do like that they tried to make Shep haunted by his actions and mistakes in ME3. Even though he asked not to, I will say this.
My shep would not have nightmares about a stupid little kid. The thing is, he gave the kid an opportunity to survive, and the kid ran away from it. When the kid died, my shepard would've been sad, but still wouldn't care.
"I gave you a chance, you blew it, and now it's your fault you're dead." His nightmares would've been about Kaidan, the guy I left on Virmire, or maybe his LI being killed. Now, that's my headcanon shep, a mindoir survivor and a realist. Other may have it differently.
Onto the original point, like I said above, the whole thing is PTSD is interesting. It certainly does make my shepard less of the heartless machine I often made him out to be.

[MissMaster_2]

Vizard355 wrote...

The PTSD would have been better used after shepard died in ME2 or the Virmire choice in ME.

[samb]

christrek1982 wrote.... 

that is a very good and insightful point thank you.

No problem. The thing about PTSD is that it is a very real problem, but only recently getting attention. This has a lot to do with the armed forces not wanting to the general public to know about since they thought it would hurt recruiting, and they didn't want to be responsible for mental health care after discharge. They would prefer if the "troubled" soldier just retired and stop using their resources on things like doctors and therapists. 
It is almost at an epidemic level with vets now and one of the major reasons why vets have such a hard time with civilian life. A shame since these old soldier risked so much for us. I am glad they included it in the game. The reason Shep is still functional in the game is because he is still in a high pressure situation and still with a support cast which allows him to suppress the more debilitating symptoms. My guess is if things went on a bit longer is would burn out. 

Modifié par samb, 18 août 2012 - 07:09 .

[Han Shot First]

It is hard to predict what events would act as a trigger.

A few years back I was watching a documentary about the Battle of Iwo Jima. One of the old veterans told a story about the final days of the battle, when it had entered the 'mop up' stage. As he and his squad were clearing out some last hold outs, a Japanese officer suddenly leaped up from a cave and charged at them. They are all fired, killing the Japanese officer instantly. In the process of being gunned down, the officer's helmet tumbled off his head and rolled to the feet one of the Marines. The Marine reached down and pulled out a photo that had been tucked in the lining. It was a picture of the officer with four little girls....his daughters.

The veteran recounted that there wasn't a dry eye present...and these were men who had lost countless comrades fighting the Japanese and who had killed many Japanese soldiers themselves, and who in some cases who had been in combat since 1942. (Iwo Jima was fought in 1945)

Modifié par Han Shot First, 18 août 2012 - 07:12 .

[Reznore57]

I've suffered from PTSD ,and well Shepard has really not a severe case.
I was litteraly losing it ...had few huge panic attack per day , would jump 3 kilometre at any noises,and other stuff because my brain couldn't deal with what i've been thru.
So i can't image anybody like that on a battlefield....You simply don't function properly anymore.

And PTSD can happen a lot of time after the traumatic event .

Don't know how i felt about shep PTSD ...Shep is the kind of guy /girl that rise from the dead and barely make a big deal about it .
So trying to introduce an inner struggle in ME3...it felt forced like a lot of things in this game.

[samb]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Vizard355 wrote...

The PTSD would have been better used after shepard died in ME2 or the Virmire choice in ME.

Like I said before, witnessing kids dying/killed is often the catalyst for PTSD. Soldier are amazingly resilient (thanks to constant pressure), but the death of a kid seems to hit them especially hard. 

[AtreiyaN7]

As far as actual PTSD goes, I'm not sure that Shepard was suffering from it. He/she is still fully functional on every level and relatively stable as far as I can tell, although the situation is clearly weighing on Shepard and taking an increasing emotional toll on him/her. I do think that the nightmares helped illustrate the pressure that Shepard was under after suffering numerous losses over time, showing that even heroes can be human.

[themikefest]

samb wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Vizard355 wrote...

The PTSD would have been better used after shepard died in ME2 or the Virmire choice in ME.

Like I said before, witnessing kids dying/killed is often the catalyst for PTSD. Soldier are amazingly resilient (thanks to constant pressure), but the death of a kid seems to hit them especially hard. 

for me and the squad I was with we blew up a bus with the enemy in it only to find out a short time later there were kids on it. I was sick to my stomach as were the others
also losing friends that I considered family and not dieing with them has haunted me for over 21 years
I never expected being in a conflict when I joined the military but at the samtime I knew it was a possibility 
 

[SackofCat]

But Shepard didn't see the kid die. He saw the shuttle explode and inferred that the kid died.

[Zardoc]

Ozida wrote...

Idea was nice. Execution was terrible.

[Han Shot First]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

As far as actual PTSD goes, I'm not sure that Shepard was suffering from it. He/she is still fully functional on every level and relatively stable as far as I can tell, although the situation is clearly weighing on Shepard and taking an increasing emotional toll on him/her. I do think that the nightmares helped illustrate the pressure that Shepard was under after suffering numerous losses over time, showing that even heroes can be human.

It is still PTSD, just a more mild form of it.

Not all PTSD is debilitating. In fact people who suffer from the more 'mild' symptoms and are able to live otherwise outwardly functionial lives, are more common.

[clennon8]

Someone has to say it. The dreams had nothing to do with PTSD. They were signs of indoctrination.

[Juumanistra]

No matter how much you sugarcoat it, "herp derp now Shep's got PTSD" will always be a dumb idea. It has nothing to do with whether or not the events Shep's witnessed should or should not provoke it. It has everything to do with the fact that it's a stupendously massive disregard for player agency, as you'd think that the player would have a say in whether or not Shep's being haunted by nightmares of the Darwin Award's youngest winner. But nope! Because that'd get in the way with being artsy and topical, I guess.

Modifié par Juumanistra, 18 août 2012 - 07:47 .

[Han Shot First]

 It has everything to do with the fact that it's a stupendously massive disregard for player agency, as you'd think that the player would have a say in whether or not Shep's being haunted by nightmares of the Darwin Award's youngest winner

PTSD doesn't work that way.

Shepard shouldn't get to choose whether or not he suffers from it, as real people don't get to choose whether or not they suffer from it.

[Ledgend1221]

Han Shot First wrote...

 It has everything to do with the fact that it's a stupendously massive disregard for player agency, as you'd think that the player would have a say in whether or not Shep's being haunted by nightmares of the Darwin Award's youngest winner

PTSD doesn't work that way.

Shepard shouldn't get to choose whether or not he suffers from it, as real people don't get to choose whether or not they suffer from it.

Writing a character does work that way.

[TookYoCookies]

Eloise K wrote...

Juumanistra wrote...

No matter how much you sugarcoat it, "herp derp now Shep's got PTSD" will always be a dumb idea. It has nothing to do with whether or not the events Shep's witnessed should or should not provoke it. It has everything to do with the fact that it's a stupendously massive disregard for player agency, as you'd think that the player would have a say in whether or not Shep's being haunted by nightmares of the Darwin Award's youngest winner. But nope! Because that'd get in the way with being artsy and topical, I guess.

Pretty much ^this.

This.

Its a game, not Real Life, or a Movie. BW forgot.

[tyrvas]

off topic but on topic with PTSD... Drell have to be very strong willed, especially Thane.

[Han Shot First]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Writing a character does work that way.

The player doesn't write the character, Bioware does.

I personally prefer realistic characters that have real human emotions. On that note, I'm glad Bioware wrote PTSD into the story. Shepard shouldn't be an emotionless brick who is immune to everything that gets thrown at him.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 18 août 2012 - 07:56 .

[hoodaticus]

Akuze Shepard should have had PTSD; war hero Shepard maybe not.

[Juumanistra]

Han Shot First wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Writing a character does work that way.

The player doesn't write the character, Bioware does.

I personally prefer realistic characters that have real human emotions. On that note, I'm glad Bioware wrote PTSD into the story. Shepard shouldn't an emotionless brick who is immune to everything that gets thrown at him.

See, that's the thing: Through the first two iterations of the franchise? Shepard was the player. Very little of what Shep thought was predefined, and the things that were could be excused by narrative necessity. (I.E. No Shepard could be so paragon as to tell Timmy where he could urinate and immediately fly off to the Alliance at the start of ME2, because then there'd be no game.) He/she was only an emotional brick if the player chose to roll that way.

[tyrvas]

TookYoCookies wrote...

Eloise K wrote...

Juumanistra wrote...

No matter how much you sugarcoat it, "herp derp now Shep's got PTSD" will always be a dumb idea. It has nothing to do with whether or not the events Shep's witnessed should or should not provoke it. It has everything to do with the fact that it's a stupendously massive disregard for player agency, as you'd think that the player would have a say in whether or not Shep's being haunted by nightmares of the Darwin Award's youngest winner. But nope! Because that'd get in the way with being artsy and topical, I guess.

Pretty much ^this.

This.

Its a game, not Real Life, or a Movie. BW forgot.

Mass Effect is more than a game or a movie, it's a story which you are part of.
And if you have not noticed yet, I will tell you then... 

ME has many emotional moments, such as in a movie, book and real life.
It's not all about shooting, you know.

[Massa FX]

Maybe Shepard should have seen a shrink during house arrest. Maybe s/he did see a shrink but BW hasn't realized it yet. Shrink DLC coming soon!