285 réponses à ce sujet

[Kia Purity]

I thought this thread was about how the game gave EVERYONE PSTD.

The attempt to give Shepard PSTD in ME3 was done terribly and should have been done in ME2 because you have to consider Shepard's origins + paragon/renegade system.

[Han Shot First]

hostaman wrote...

The curse of the RPG.

One persons Shepherd thinks that kids are just like adults, and if they refuse help, well, **** them. My Shepherd was very personaly affected when he saw the kids shuttle destroyed, and that image haunted him in his dreams.

The only problem is that the character must have some dominant personality to enable the story to function. BW obviously felt that Shepherd was inately good and caring, and designed the story around this. However, it seems that many players like to see shephard as a more gung ho, disspansionate type, which fits less well with the PTSD narative, and may be a major reason that so many players dislike the star child. It makes shep look weak, as Grunt might say.

I too think that is was a bold, brave move by BW to write this story, but unfortunately I'm in a minority, and most players prefer a traditional hero narative. A shame.

Good post, and I agree.

It is also unfortunate that many players view the dream sequences as a sign of weakness, when it doesn't represent that at all. Going back to the example of Audie Murphy, he was the United States' Army's greatest hero to emerge from the Second World War. He was awarded every medal for bravery issued by the United States Army, in addition to the French Croix de Guerre and Legion of Honor, and the Belgian Croix de Guerre. He also famously suffered from PTSD.

 John Basilone, perhaps the Marine Corps' greatest hero in the Second World War (a recipient of both the Medal of Honor and Navy Cross), also was plagued by nightmares.

[Blueprotoss]

sheppard7 wrote...

Go ask your "granddad" or "uncles" if they would feel worse if YOU died or some random stranger kid they never met. If they say they would feel more for the kid, that just means they don't like you.

So soldiers would never get upset if a civilian whether the age, race, or gender died in front of them as a soldier.  It sounds like you need to experience war based on this ignorance.

sheppard7 wrote... 

Again, I'm talking about the colonist choice they gave us. And you are trying to say real life soldiers will care for the random stranger over family? Yeah, right.

And the colonist incident happened before Shep was a soldier even. So that was a civilian incident.

Yet everyone dies before you join the Alliance as an Earthborn while at least you have a better chance on a colony and you don't even revisit that colony if you're a Colonist anyway.

sheppard7 wrote...

And the guy told me don't lie so this morning woke up and called Major Dad (He retired at major and my dad so I call him that). I asked him how would he feel if I or any of my siblings died and he said "I'd rather be buried myself before that happens." I then asked how would he feel if a random stranger kid he never met was killed and he saw it with his own eyes. "Feel sad for the kid but can't say I'd be as broken up since I don't know him."

Yet the discussion is about being a soldier and witnessing death first hand not about a death in the family.  Next time you shouldn't railroad the topic especially when everyone has experienced death in their famiies.  

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 19 août 2012 - 04:26 .

[iSousek]

Again, Shepard is not suffering from PTSD. Do some research into what, from scientific, psychological and medical view, PTSD is, how and why PTSD 'outbursts' are triggered and so on.

He has nightmares which can be asosciated with PTSD but having them doesn't mean that a person does indeed suffer from PTSD.

As it stands now, they (nightmares) are, at best,a sign of his own internal psychological doubts and fears.

[Blueprotoss]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Of course Shepard's PTSD is triggered by a child. Because Mac Walters has his psych degree, and all the textbooks he had to read said this is a common aspect of the syndrome. The original plan was to make Shepard suffer the effects of the indoctrination process, but that proved to be difficult to implement. So Walters comes up with PTDS as an easier alternative, instructing the art department to come up with a model of a child for the specific purpose of killing him off so as to trigger Shep's PTSD. Wonder why no one besides Shep seems to see the child? That's because he's a late addition to the opening scene.

So why make Shep suffer from PTSD? Is it an artistic calling to address the heavy price societies inflict on their armed forces and those close to them in waging seemingly neverending wars for vague and shifting reasons? Nope, it is to make Shepard "ruined" enough by the ending of the game to make sacrificing his/her life for vague purposes seem more acceptable. After all, players would resist the number one imperative of ME3, killing off Shepard, far more if s/he seemed like s/he had some life left in him/her. But now s/he seems already broken, ready for the sacrifice. It being such a chore to care for the traumatized.

Meanwhile, BioWare show their great concern for the ravages of war by aggressively promoting the multiplayer that portrays military operations as nothing more than ratcheting up the body count. They have completely dehumanized the opponents (reaper abominations, those units that have no soul and zombified Cerb troopers) to the point where watching heads explode is as guiltless as can be. And they market more guns to make the slaughter more rewarding for moar real $$$$$ profits.

Now the point here is not to moralize over BioWare selling a militarist fantasy for our entertainment. After all, I bought it too. But thinking that BW are somehow to be commended for clumsily exploiting a serious real world affliction to shepherd us to a serene acceptance of their demolition job conclusion is a bit rich.

How is PTSD based on money and profits when novels, comics, movies, tv shows, and movies barely use that as a theme in the 1st place.  Haters gonna hate.

[Han Shot First]

iSousek wrote...

Again, Shepard is not suffering from PTSD. Do some research into what, from scientific, psychological and medical view, PTSD is, how and why PTSD 'outbursts' are triggered and so on.

He has nightmares which can be asosciated with PTSD but having them doesn't mean that a person does indeed suffer from PTSD.

As it stands now, they (nightmares) are, at best,a sign of his own internal psychological doubts and fears.

You need to do some research yourself apparently, since you incorrectly stated earlier in the thread that nightmares aren't one of the symptoms of PTSD. They are.

At any rate, let me just quote something I stated earlier int he thread since I'm feeling lazy...

There have been some posts in this thread disputing whether Shepard actually had PTSD. Ultimately whether or not Shepard would have been diagnosed with it is irrelevent. He was most definitely experiencing a combat stress reaction, regardless of whether that reaction was full blown PTSD. IMO whether or not Bioware handled the dream sequences well, I think they deserve some credit for touching on some real world issues. If you are going to create a work of fiction where war is a central focus, I think you also need to explore some of the consequences of it.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 19 août 2012 - 04:25 .

[iSousek]

Han Shot First wrote...

iSousek wrote...

Again, Shepard is not suffering from PTSD. Do some research into what, from scientific, psychological and medical view, PTSD is, how and why PTSD 'outbursts' are triggered and so on.

He has nightmares which can be asosciated with PTSD but having them doesn't mean that a person does indeed suffer from PTSD.

As it stands now, they (nightmares) are, at best,a sign of his own internal psychological doubts and fears.

You need to do some research yourself apparently, since you incorrectly stated earlier in the thread that nightmares aren't one of the symptoms of PTSD. They are.

You need to re-read my post because that's not what i said. I said that nightmares are not PTSD-specific symptome. Nor are nightmares a fundamental symptome of PTSD. I have nightmares but I don't have PTSD.

Read and pay more attention rather than give simple interprations of what I might've said.

[Blueprotoss]

Han Shot First wrote...

hostaman wrote...

The curse of the RPG.

One persons Shepherd thinks that kids are just like adults, and if they refuse help, well, **** them. My Shepherd was very personaly affected when he saw the kids shuttle destroyed, and that image haunted him in his dreams.

The only problem is that the character must have some dominant personality to enable the story to function. BW obviously felt that Shepherd was inately good and caring, and designed the story around this. However, it seems that many players like to see shephard as a more gung ho, disspansionate type, which fits less well with the PTSD narative, and may be a major reason that so many players dislike the star child. It makes shep look weak, as Grunt might say.

I too think that is was a bold, brave move by BW to write this story, but unfortunately I'm in a minority, and most players prefer a traditional hero narative. A shame.

Good post, and I agree.

It is also unfortunate that many players view the dream sequences as a sign of weakness, when it doesn't represent that at all. Going back to the example of Audie Murphy, he was the United States' Army's greatest hero to emerge from the Second World War. He was awarded every medal for bravery issued by the United States Army, in addition to the French Croix de Guerre and Legion of Honor, and the Belgian Croix de Guerre. He also famously suffered from PTSD.

 John Basilone, perhaps the Marine Corps' greatest hero in the Second World War (a recipient of both the Medal of Honor and Navy Cross), also was plagued by nightmares.

I second this and there's a reason why most Medal of Honor recipients are dead.  Sadly a lot of our troops coming from Iraq and Afghanistan are committing suicide over PTSD whether it involved it was a death of a comrade or a civilian.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 19 août 2012 - 04:31 .

[Blueprotoss]

iSousek wrote...

You need to re-read my post because that's not what i said. I said that nightmares are not PTSD-specific symptome. Nor are nightmares a fundamental symptome of PTSD. I have nightmares but I don't have PTSD.

Read and pay more attention rather than give simple interprations of what I might've said.

Han is right that nightmares or night terrors are related to PTSD while this can vary from person to person or what occcured.  Anyone could just snap over a tragedy other then soldiers experiencing death like rape or abuse victims. 

[DPSSOC]

I agree and give Bioware credit for trying, but as has been pointed out the execution wasn't the greatest. 2 things ruin the execution in my mind. First Shepard hasn't been emotionally expressive until now. For 2 games Shepard has shown next to no emotional reaction to events and while my friends and I have viewed this as an opportunity to decide how Shepard feels about a given situation others have taken it more as is, Shepard is not effected by the things he/she has witnessed or done. That's something to keep in mind for the future, decide in advance whether or not you want to have a moment where the character is emotionally/psychologically troubled by events, and establish beforehand that they aren't impervious to these influences.

Second problem is the kid. Now aside from how PTSD actually works if Bioware wanted Shepard's response to resonate with us they really needed to make us care about the kid. The kid is essentially an unknown, we only get 3 lines with him, have no attachment, and therefore can't really empathize or sympathize. With that in mind it's hard for most players to get why this bothers Shepard so much. How is Shepard who's seen hundreds if not thousands of people die, who's been responsible for the deaths of hundreds more, who left at least one friend to die bothered by some kid.

So again I applaud the decision to address the issue, however it's not really something you can throw in at the last installment with little to no build up.

[iSousek]

@Blueprotoss

Ofcourse, I agree. But that's not even the thing I am questioning and disagreeing with you guys about.

I was trying to say that having nightmares doesn't necessarily mean you have PTSD (third time today, but I'm sure that again someone will come and say that nightmares are a symptome of PTSD so Shepard must have PTSD)

[Han Shot First]

@DPSSOC

I think it is a fair criticism that up until Mass Effect 3 Shepard hasn't shown a whole lot of emotional range. I think that is a flaw with Mass Effect 1 and 2 however, and see Mass Effect 3 as an improvement in that regard. Recently I went back and started playing through the entire series again, and after ME3 both Shepard and the squadmates seemed a lot less developed as characters. I think the writers steadily improved in the character development department as the series went on.

In ME1's defense however the writers also had to do an info dump with the lore. That is also partially responsible for the alien characters feeling a little lifeless compared to ME2 and ME3.

iSousek wrote...


I was trying to say that having nightmares doesn't necessarily mean you have PTSD (third time today, but I'm sure that again someone will come and say that nightmares are a symptome of PTSD so Shepard must have PTSD)

Fair enough, but ultimately whether or not the dreams are a symtpom of PTSD is a bit of a non issue. Either way the dreams are a symptom of psychological trauma linked to combat experiences. Whether or it was a combat stress reaction or PTSD isn't important.

I like that Bioware tried to explore the psychological toll on Shepard, regardless of whether or not the dreams were a symptom of PTSD itself.

[inko1nsiderate]

I think you can make a case that Shepard is just stressed, but in the game Shepard acts somewhat distant to the crew or irritable (scene when Shepard is in the bathroom talking to Liara, scene when Shepard says 'I'll sleep when I'm dead', etc.).  So I think a case can be made that Shepard could be suffering from delayed-onset PTSD.  Though, I think you can take the nightmares as stress if you choose the right dialogue.  My Paragade Shepards always end up slightly irritable, so I'd say some of them have PTSD.

DPSSOC wrote...

I agree and give Bioware credit for trying, but as has been pointed out the execution wasn't the greatest. 2 things ruin the execution in my mind. First Shepard hasn't been emotionally expressive until now. For 2 games Shepard has shown next to no emotional reaction to events and while my friends and I have viewed this as an opportunity to decide how Shepard feels about a given situation others have taken it more as is, Shepard is not effected by the things he/she has witnessed or done. That's something to keep in mind for the future, decide in advance whether or not you want to have a moment where the character is emotionally/psychologically troubled by events, and establish beforehand that they aren't impervious to these influences.

Second problem is the kid. Now aside from how PTSD actually works if Bioware wanted Shepard's response to resonate with us they really needed to make us care about the kid. The kid is essentially an unknown, we only get 3 lines with him, have no attachment, and therefore can't really empathize or sympathize. With that in mind it's hard for most players to get why this bothers Shepard so much. How is Shepard who's seen hundreds if not thousands of people die, who's been responsible for the deaths of hundreds more, who left at least one friend to die bothered by some kid.

So again I applaud the decision to address the issue, however it's not really something you can throw in at the last installment with little to no build up.

As to your first point:
http://ptsd.about.co...edonsetPTSD.htm 

Delayed onset of PTSD.  Shepard had a long downtime when there was no pressing mission between ME2 and ME3.  That time to decompress and 'return to civilian life' is a time when a lot of soldiers start to go off the rails in real life.

The lack of emotional range is fair, particularly with respect to Jenkins.  He got the red shirt treatment for sure.  I just think this is a limitation of the earlier games as Shepard has considerable more emotional range in ME2 (at least that is how I felt).

As to your second point:

I heard an NPR story (I think, may have also been frontline) about a soldier who had PTSD.  He had seen many dead bodies, dead kids, etc. but one day he saw some little dead kid.  Months after returning home he started to have recurring nightmares aobut this little dead kid.  He had no knowledge of the kid, had seen worse scenes many times before, yet this single image is what haunted this particular soldier.  I really wish I could find a link to this story, but my google-fu has failed me.  The point is that real PTSD can involve seeing images that didn't particularly affect you at the time, weren't particularly grusome compared to other trauma you've experience, etc.

But the point is you don't have to care about the person in the traumatic event to trigger PTSD, and when you talk about it with other characters you usually bring up friends and not some random kid on Earth that you saw die.

Modifié par inko1nsiderate, 19 août 2012 - 05:14 .

[sheppard7]

Kia Purity wrote...

I thought this thread was about how the game gave EVERYONE PSTD.

The attempt to give Shepard PSTD in ME3 was done terribly and should have been done in ME2 because you have to consider Shepard's origins + paragon/renegade system.

THIS in so many ways. lol

On the serious part of your message, that is my main complaint with this. BW did it so wrong and had every opportunity to do it properly. The beginning of ME2 when Randi and Jake (Miranda and Jacob to you guys who don't like them lol) asked Shep about the one left behind on Virmire, Shep's reply depending on what you picked showed that decision of the fallen on Virmire weighed heavily on Shep. Yet, BW dropped the ball trying to tug on heartstrings with the cheap "kill the kid" angle.

I would accept Shep having PTSD if they used that instead. But again they did the cheap cliche route.

[sheppard7]

Blueprotoss wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

Go ask your "granddad" or "uncles" if they would feel worse if YOU died or some random stranger kid they never met. If they say they would feel more for the kid, that just means they don't like you.

So soldiers would never get upset if a civilian whether the age, race, or gender died in front of them as a soldier.  It sounds like you need to experience war based on this ignorance.

sheppard7 wrote... 

Again, I'm talking about the colonist choice they gave us. And you are trying to say real life soldiers will care for the random stranger over family? Yeah, right.

And the colonist incident happened before Shep was a soldier even. So that was a civilian incident.

Yet everyone dies before you join the Alliance as an Earthborn while at least you have a better chance on a colony and you don't even revisit that colony if you're a Colonist anyway.

sheppard7 wrote...

And the guy told me don't lie so this morning woke up and called Major Dad (He retired at major and my dad so I call him that). I asked him how would he feel if I or any of my siblings died and he said "I'd rather be buried myself before that happens." I then asked how would he feel if a random stranger kid he never met was killed and he saw it with his own eyes. "Feel sad for the kid but can't say I'd be as broken up since I don't know him."

Yet the discussion is about being a soldier and witnessing death first hand not about a death in the family.  Next time you shouldn't railroad the topic especially when everyone has experienced death in their famiies.  

And he did go to war when I was a kid. Killed a lot of people do with what he had to do in said war.  And lost a lot of people. So again, don't assume because you make an **** out of U but not ME

BW F'ed up on the way they TRIED to pull it off.


EDIT: And I never said soldiers never would get upset but I said they would naturally feel more upset seeing someone kill a family member in front of their own eyes. That's just human nature.

Modifié par sheppard7, 19 août 2012 - 06:24 .

[tyrvas]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

I think you can make a case that Shepard is just stressed, but in the game Shepard acts somewhat distant to the crew or irritable (scene when Shepard is in the bathroom talking to Liara, scene when Shepard says 'I'll sleep when I'm dead', etc.).  So I think a case can be made that Shepard could be suffering from delayed-onset PTSD.  Though, I think you can take the nightmares as stress if you choose the right dialogue.  My Paragade Shepards always end up slightly irritable, so I'd say some of them have PTSD.

DPSSOC wrote...

I agree and give Bioware credit for trying, but as has been pointed out the execution wasn't the greatest. 2 things ruin the execution in my mind. First Shepard hasn't been emotionally expressive until now. For 2 games Shepard has shown next to no emotional reaction to events and while my friends and I have viewed this as an opportunity to decide how Shepard feels about a given situation others have taken it more as is, Shepard is not effected by the things he/she has witnessed or done. That's something to keep in mind for the future, decide in advance whether or not you want to have a moment where the character is emotionally/psychologically troubled by events, and establish beforehand that they aren't impervious to these influences.

Second problem is the kid. Now aside from how PTSD actually works if Bioware wanted Shepard's response to resonate with us they really needed to make us care about the kid. The kid is essentially an unknown, we only get 3 lines with him, have no attachment, and therefore can't really empathize or sympathize. With that in mind it's hard for most players to get why this bothers Shepard so much. How is Shepard who's seen hundreds if not thousands of people die, who's been responsible for the deaths of hundreds more, who left at least one friend to die bothered by some kid.

So again I applaud the decision to address the issue, however it's not really something you can throw in at the last installment with little to no build up.

As to your first point:
http://ptsd.about.co...edonsetPTSD.htm 

Delayed onset of PTSD.  Shepard had a long downtime when there was no pressing mission between ME2 and ME3.  That time to decompress and 'return to civilian life' is a time when a lot of soldiers start to go off the rails in real life.

The lack of emotional range is fair, particularly with respect to Jenkins.  He got the red shirt treatment for sure.  I just think this is a limitation of the earlier games as Shepard has considerable more emotional range in ME2 (at least that is how I felt).

As to your second point:

I heard an NPR story (I think, may have also been frontline) about a soldier who had PTSD.  He had seen many dead bodies, dead kids, etc. but one day he saw some little dead kid.  Months after returning home he started to have recurring nightmares aobut this little dead kid.  He had no knowledge of the kid, had seen worse scenes many times before, yet this single image is what haunted this particular soldier.  I really wish I could find a link to this story, but my google-fu has failed me.  The point is that real PTSD can involve seeing images that didn't particularly affect you at the time, weren't particularly grusome compared to other trauma you've experience, etc.

But the point is you don't have to care about the person in the traumatic event to trigger PTSD, and when you talk about it with other characters you usually bring up friends and not some random kid on Earth that you saw die.

me like this reply very much.

[sheppard7]

And what is this with Earthborn having more die around you? I thought EB was you were orphaned and grew up in the streets but doesn't say everyone dies around you. Or does something say that during a playthrough because it doesn't on the selection screen. I never played EB. It's been Colonist or Spacer on all mine.

[DPSSOC]

Han Shot First wrote...

@DPSSOC

I think it is a fair criticism that up until Mass Effect 3 Shepard hasn't shown a whole lot of emotional range. I think that is a flaw with Mass Effect 1 and 2 however, and see Mass Effect 3 as an improvement in that regard. Recently I went back and started playing through the entire series again, and after ME3 both Shepard and the squadmates seemed a lot less developed as characters. I think the writers steadily improved in the character development department as the series went on.

In ME1's defense however the writers also had to do an info dump with the lore. That is also partially responsible for the alien characters feeling a little lifeless compared to ME2 and ME3.

Certainly however it's something that should have been taken into account when deciding to go with the idea of Shep sufferring PTSD.  I dunno how they could have done it, maybe had the scene with the kid later in the game to give the audience time to adjust to the more emotional Shepard we were dealing with making his/her response to the kid's death less jarring.

inko1nsiderate wrote...
As to your second point:

I heard an NPR story (I think, may have also been frontline) about a soldier who had PTSD. He had seen many dead bodies, dead kids, etc. but one day he saw some little dead kid. Months after returning home he started to have recurring nightmares aobut this little dead kid. He had no knowledge of the kid, had seen worse scenes many times before, yet this single image is what haunted this particular soldier. I really wish I could find a link to this story, but my google-fu has failed me. The point is that real PTSD can involve seeing images that didn't particularly affect you at the time, weren't particularly grusome compared to other trauma you've experience, etc.

But the point is you don't have to care about the person in the traumatic event to trigger PTSD, and when you talk about it with other characters you usually bring up friends and not some random kid on Earth that you saw die.

Yeah I get that and I'm not disagreeing with you, but that's why I said "aside from how PTSD actually works." Bioware made this scene without accounting for people with little or inaccurate understanding of PTSD; how it manifests, what can trigger it, how the triggering event isn't necessarily the cause, etc. All the unfamilliar see is Shepard, who's brushed off lord knows what before, breaking down over some kid.

Part of any form of storytelling be it books, movies, video games, etc. is making sure the audience can understand what the characters are going through. ME3 was pretty good about that it's just this one scene.

[sheppard7]

DPSSOC wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

@DPSSOC

I think it is a fair criticism that up until Mass Effect 3 Shepard hasn't shown a whole lot of emotional range. I think that is a flaw with Mass Effect 1 and 2 however, and see Mass Effect 3 as an improvement in that regard. Recently I went back and started playing through the entire series again, and after ME3 both Shepard and the squadmates seemed a lot less developed as characters. I think the writers steadily improved in the character development department as the series went on.

In ME1's defense however the writers also had to do an info dump with the lore. That is also partially responsible for the alien characters feeling a little lifeless compared to ME2 and ME3.

Certainly however it's something that should have been taken into account when deciding to go with the idea of Shep sufferring PTSD.  I dunno how they could have done it, maybe had the scene with the kid later in the game to give the audience time to adjust to the more emotional Shepard we were dealing with making his/her response to the kid's death less jarring.

inko1nsiderate wrote...
As to your second point:

I heard an NPR story (I think, may have also been frontline) about a soldier who had PTSD. He had seen many dead bodies, dead kids, etc. but one day he saw some little dead kid. Months after returning home he started to have recurring nightmares aobut this little dead kid. He had no knowledge of the kid, had seen worse scenes many times before, yet this single image is what haunted this particular soldier. I really wish I could find a link to this story, but my google-fu has failed me. The point is that real PTSD can involve seeing images that didn't particularly affect you at the time, weren't particularly grusome compared to other trauma you've experience, etc.

But the point is you don't have to care about the person in the traumatic event to trigger PTSD, and when you talk about it with other characters you usually bring up friends and not some random kid on Earth that you saw die.

Yeah I get that and I'm not disagreeing with you, but that's why I said "aside from how PTSD actually works." Bioware made this scene without accounting for people with little or inaccurate understanding of PTSD; how it manifests, what can trigger it, how the triggering event isn't necessarily the cause, etc. All the unfamilliar see is Shepard, who's brushed off lord knows what before, breaking down over some kid.

Part of any form of storytelling be it books, movies, video games, etc. is making sure the audience can understand what the characters are going through. ME3 was pretty good about that it's just this one scene.

I don't know if the kid dying later would matter. Because we never got connected to the kid in the first place. When I saw him die in the demo before game release, I just thought "OWNED" because he was some stupid kid who refused to be saved.

Oh and Shep had no problem telling Anderson about not being able to save them all right after leaving the kid in the air duct.

The kid wasn't even important enough to get a first name in the game much less the ones who got both first and last name. Writers don't waste time naming the unimportant a lot of times and that's what Bioware did to that kid.

I actually cared more for the kid in the stargazer scene and the danger that one faced.

Modifié par sheppard7, 19 août 2012 - 06:41 .

[robertthebard]

Flog61 wrote...

I would agree with you, OP, but...

I just think the way they are done in me3 ignores the whole PTSD idea and are just put in purely for emotional impact (which they failed at, but that's off-topic)

I doubt that's what they were even thinking when they wrote those scenes; they were just put in to emphasize loss.



Besides, if they had wanted a PTSD storyline, they should have made it much more prevalent; perhaps a discussion with a friend about all the losses, with them telling him not to let it get to him, or something.


At the moment the scenes just seem like Z-list movie ideas

I can, off the top of my head, think of two conversations where Shepard does indeed discuss this with friends, once with Liara, and once with Garrus.  Garrus will also point out that Shepard is a little rough around the edges, and remind him/her to come up for air.

I liked the idea, implementation, while OT was a bit meh.

[sheppard7]

robertthebard wrote...

Flog61 wrote...

I would agree with you, OP, but...

I just think the way they are done in me3 ignores the whole PTSD idea and are just put in purely for emotional impact (which they failed at, but that's off-topic)

I doubt that's what they were even thinking when they wrote those scenes; they were just put in to emphasize loss.



Besides, if they had wanted a PTSD storyline, they should have made it much more prevalent; perhaps a discussion with a friend about all the losses, with them telling him not to let it get to him, or something.


At the moment the scenes just seem like Z-list movie ideas

I can, off the top of my head, think of two conversations where Shepard does indeed discuss this with friends, once with Liara, and once with Garrus.  Garrus will also point out that Shepard is a little rough around the edges, and remind him/her to come up for air.

I liked the idea, implementation, while OT was a bit meh.

And early ME2 with Jake and Randi when talking about who died on Virmire. BW should have used that and made the thing that appeared in front of him/her in dreams the Virmire Death guy/gal.

[samb]

 I think we are all taking it bit too literally. Yes, nightmares are symptoms of PTSD but Shepard doesn't meet the criteria for it. Namely, it hasn't been crippling and it hasnt been one month in length (I don't think).

The dreams and the kid just symbolize the innocents that he couldn't save. If you want to cite Virmire as a start rather than the kid dying that is reasonable, but Ash and Kaiden do show up in the dreams just not as prominent as the little boy. Using children as a symbol of innocence is a very common literary device. Yes, it is a deliberate heart string puller, and a common one.  BW could have done it better though. The dreams come off more annoying than anything because it's just soooooo slow.  You get a dream sequence and your just moving slowly and pointlessly. There are better ways to show how impotent Shepard feels rather than what BW did. 

[Alien Number Six]

I just want to clarify some things in my earlier post. The solider in question's full name and rank was Private First class Richard Anderton. I found this out later by asking around. He had only been in country two days and had only been in the U.S army for a single year. He had two young kids and a wife back home. I wrote Janet Anderton and told her how sorry I was her husband died so far away from everyone who cared and how at the end I was there to hold his hand. My First Sergeant who had been in the third humvee back told me that the IED that hit the lead humvee had been made with two hundred pounds of old mortar rounds left over from Iraq's war with Iran. Anderton's humvee was blowen in half and he was at the center of the explosion. He was launched into the air. I was easily a couple of hundred feet back. He flew very high into the sky to have landed on me. The humvee I was riding in was the last in line. The first thing you have to remember about PTSD is that it comes in many forms. Bad dreams, seeing things out of the corner of your eye that are not there. Loud bangs and noises scaring you half to death. There is no clean criteria for being dignosed. Treatment falls into two catagories. Drugs that make you feel crazy drunk or nothing. I choose nothing. I talk about it because it makes me feel better. Did the writers of Mass Effect 3 intend for Shepard to have PTSD. I don't know. Do I think it's great that people are talking about it. Sure. There are several scenes in the game that make me think about that day. The dreams. The two shuttles full of people and the marines below getting vaporized at the beginning of the game. The admiral and Shepard staring out through the viewport at earth at the end of the game. I thought Mass Effect 3 was awesome.

[samb]

@alien # six
PTSD is really tough to treat. The recommended treatment is antidepressant but they have not been very effective. But you are wrong in thinking the other option is doing nothing. Cognitive behavioral therapy has been very effective. It won't make you forget, nothing can do that. It goal is to turn a traumatic event a tragic one. It will still be with you but it won't invade your life. Go see a professional.

There is also a program started by a former Marine that gives away dogs as pets. This marine was about to commit suicide when his puppy stopped him. He started thinking "if I die then who will take care of this puppy?". Since then he just unloaded his heart to this puppy who just listened. It is advice I give my patients and has been quite rewarding and effective.

Other treatments in devolopment have been using FPSs as a way to desensitize troops. It's still in research.

My point is: don't think there isnt a way to get through this. Help is out there. Go get it. You deserve it.

[bydoritos]

I liked the dream sequences.
The voice of your dead friends, was something very emotional.
Even now after the Extended cut, there still some tears rolling because of the dream scenes.
and the reason why I like, it's because I was getting tired of the war, I mean, not me, but my
Shepard, and the dream sequence show to me how much Shepard was sacrificing in order to fight
the war, he was giving his soul trying to save the galaxy, and for me was something that was very
well done.
I enjoyed.
but I was hoping for an easter egg as well, you know, in those dream scenes there was a point that
I was sitting there for 30 minutes waiting for some easter egg to pop up.
sad face haha.


edit:
and also about the PTSD discussion.
I saw a comment where the guy said that his shepard didn't have ptsd, because he didn't get to choose.
here is the problem, soldiers can't choose to have PTSD. 
that's not something that a human can control, everyone has limits, and Bioware decided that the attack on Earth and the kid being killed right in front of his eyes was too much for Shepard's mind.
and that's one more reason for me to like the dream scenes.
that's cool, good job bioware .

Modifié par bydoritos, 19 août 2012 - 11:09 .