285 réponses à ce sujet

[Alien Number Six]

Thanks for your concern samb. I speak to my wife quite a bit about the things that happened during the war. I have three cats and a big black lab dog that make me smile. I have a decent job working with people I like. I'm very involved in my daughter's life and pride myself in teaching her all that I have learned. I'm okay but many are not. I'm glad Mass Effect 3 made the attempt to show what PTSD is like. Even if it didn't hit the mark people are talking about it. And that is a good thing. As far as using first person shooters as a way to desensitize troops. I feel this is short sighted. No event on Mass Effect or Call of Duty or any other game can come close to real combat. I laugh when some kid online calls Call of Duty realistic. It can't prepare you for seeing people ripped apart. It can't prepare you for the realization that you where the cause of someone getting ripped apart.

[samb]

It seems like you have a good support structure Alien#6. That is usually the key for resilience. Many people don't have that, or they burn all their bridges with their loved ones. If you are doing well then by all means continue. This is probably why Shepard was still able to go on, because he had a great supporting cast.
I only mentioned FPSs as an example of researcher taking PTSD seriously. CBT is still king when it comes to treatment.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Han Shot First wrote...

Regardless of how well or poorly you think the dream sequences were handled, I think Bioware should be given kudos for having Shepard suffer from PTSD in the fhird chapter. If you are going to create a video game set during a war, even if it is a fictional futuristic one, I think you also need to touch on some realistic themes and not glorify it. One of the things Bioware got right is in not portraying Shepard as a machine whose psyche is immune to the effects of being exposed to prolonged combat.

If you just read the above and are planning to hammer out a reply arguing that Shepard is a big goddamned hero that should have been immune thanks to his past experiences, do yourself a favor and google PTSD. It doesn't work that way. Also while you are at it, google Audie Murphy and  Siegfried Sasson.

Audie Murphy was the most decorated American soldier in World War Two, having been awarded the Medal of Honor, the Distinguished Service Cross, the Silver Star, and the Bronze Star for acts of bravery.

Siegfried Sassoon, the famed poet, was a British officer so recklessly brave during the First World War, that his men affectionately nicknamed him "Mad Jack." He was awarded the Military Cross for bravery, and would likely have been awarded a Victoria Cross as well, if he wasn't so vocally anti-war and critical of both Britian's government and High Command.

Both famously suffered from PTSD.

MGS4 does it better tbh.

[Blueprotoss]

sheppard7 wrote...

And he did go to war when I was a kid. Killed a lot of people do with what he had to do in said war.  And lost a lot of people. So again, don't assume because you make an **** out of U but not ME

You act as if nobody has a family member or a friend in the miltary while realistically a lot of people have talked to soldiers.

sheppard7 wrote... 

BW F'ed up on the way they TRIED to pull it off.

How is that when "Good Morning Vietnam" covered teenage suicide bombing of US troops that also killed civilians that didn't descriminate from age, gender, and race which is what Bioware have done similar things like that for a long time in their games.   Anothere example is Nathan Algren in the Last Samurai when he forcablely had to kill the Native American women and children under General Armstrong Custard.

sheppard7 wrote... 

EDIT: And I never said soldiers never would get upset but I said they would naturally feel more upset seeing someone kill a family member in front of their own eyes. That's just human nature.

Yet you're contradicting yourself again based on how soldiers will be more affected by a death in combat then a death in the family at home.  There's nothing wrong with opinion while this is nothing new about war.

sheppard7 wrote...

And what is this with Earthborn having more die around you? I thought EB was you were orphaned and grew up in the streets but doesn't say everyone dies around you. Or does something say that during a playthrough because it doesn't on the selection screen. I never played EB. It's been Colonist or Spacer on all mine.

You're orphaned which usually means that your parents and family are dead when we're talking about RPGs especialy when BIoware is involved.  I have only played the Spacer while the Colonist isn't that bad compared to the Earthborn. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 20 août 2012 - 12:57 .

[Blueprotoss]

DinoSteve wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Regardless of how well or poorly you think the dream sequences were handled, I think Bioware should be given kudos for having Shepard suffer from PTSD in the fhird chapter. If you are going to create a video game set during a war, even if it is a fictional futuristic one, I think you also need to touch on some realistic themes and not glorify it. One of the things Bioware got right is in not portraying Shepard as a machine whose psyche is immune to the effects of being exposed to prolonged combat.

If you just read the above and are planning to hammer out a reply arguing that Shepard is a big goddamned hero that should have been immune thanks to his past experiences, do yourself a favor and google PTSD. It doesn't work that way. Also while you are at it, google Audie Murphy and  Siegfried Sasson.

Audie Murphy was the most decorated American soldier in World War Two, having been awarded the Medal of Honor, the Distinguished Service Cross, the Silver Star, and the Bronze Star for acts of bravery.

Siegfried Sassoon, the famed poet, was a British officer so recklessly brave during the First World War, that his men affectionately nicknamed him "Mad Jack." He was awarded the Military Cross for bravery, and would likely have been awarded a Victoria Cross as well, if he wasn't so vocally anti-war and critical of both Britian's government and High Command.

Both famously suffered from PTSD.

MGS4 does it better tbh.

How is that when Snake isn't effected by PTSD while he's affected by Foxdie, which was based on him being a genetically engineered soldier off of BIg Boss.

[sheppard7]

Blueprotoss wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

And he did go to war when I was a kid. Killed a lot of people do with what he had to do in said war.  And lost a lot of people. So again, don't assume because you make an **** out of U but not ME

You act as if nobody has a family member or a friend in the miltary while realistically a lot of people have talked to soldiers.

sheppard7 wrote... 

BW F'ed up on the way they TRIED to pull it off.

How is that when "Good Morning Vietnam" covered teenage suicide bombing of US troops that also killed civilians that didn't descriminate from age, gender, and race which is what Bioware have done similar things like that for a long time in their games. 

sheppard7 wrote... 

EDIT: And I never said soldiers never would get upset but I said they would naturally feel more upset seeing someone kill a family member in front of their own eyes. That's just human nature.

Yet you're contradicting yourself again based on how soldiers will be more affected by a death in combat then a death in the family at home.

I never said the "don't lie" to anyone who said they did have a family member in the military. That would be you.

And I can see it's just talking to a BW apologist is what I'm doing with you. There is a difference in saying they would care more for a family member than saying they wouldn't care for the stranger at all, right?

[Blueprotoss]

sheppard7 wrote...

I never said the "don't lie" to anyone who said they did have a family member in the military. That would be you.

Yet you're constructing questions to trick people into answering that civilians like children don't trigger PTSD when combat deaths are seen.

sheppard7 wrote... 

And I can see it's just talking to a BW apologist is what I'm doing with you. There is a difference in saying they would care more for a family member than saying they wouldn't care for the stranger at all, right?

I'm not being an apologist or a BW fan while you're still showing us that you aren't interested what the majority of military and medical studies have noticed about PTSD in soldiers. 

[sheppard7]

Blueprotoss wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

I never said the "don't lie" to anyone who said they did have a family member in the military. That would be you.

Yet you're constructing questions to trick people into answering that civilians like children don't trigger PTSD when combat deaths are seen.

sheppard7 wrote... 

And I can see it's just talking to a BW apologist is what I'm doing with you. There is a difference in saying they would care more for a family member than saying they wouldn't care for the stranger at all, right?

I'm not being an apologist or a BW fan while you're still showing us that you aren't interested what the majority of military and medical studies have noticed about PTSD in soldiers. 

After you accused of lying to prove that was not a lie. I'm done with talking to a BW fanboi too blind to see past his own face in this thread. I'll speak to others but not you because it's a brick wall. Have a fun time.

[mad825]

Han Shot First wrote...

Regardless of how well or poorly you think the dream sequences were handled, I think Bioware should be given kudos for having Shepard suffer from PTSD in the fhird chapter. If you are going to create a video game set during a war, even if it is a fictional futuristic one, I think you also need to touch on some realistic themes and not glorify it. One of the things Bioware got right is in not portraying Shepard as a machine whose psyche is immune to the effects of being exposed to prolonged combat.

If you just read the above and are planning to hammer out a reply arguing that Shepard is a big goddamned hero that should have been immune thanks to his past experiences, do yourself a favor and google PTSD. It doesn't work that way. Also while you are at it, google Audie Murphy and  Siegfried Sasson.

Audie Murphy was the most decorated American soldier in World War Two, having been awarded the Medal of Honor, the Distinguished Service Cross, the Silver Star, and the Bronze Star for acts of bravery.

Siegfried Sassoon, the famed poet, was a British officer so recklessly brave during the First World War, that his men affectionately nicknamed him "Mad Jack." He was awarded the Military Cross for bravery, and would likely have been awarded a Victoria Cross as well, if he wasn't so vocally anti-war and critical of both Britian's government and High Command.

Both famously suffered from PTSD.

Shepard was suffering from Shell Shock.

It was a good idea however executed every poorly.

Modifié par mad825, 20 août 2012 - 02:32 .

[10K]

Shepard should've been showed signs of PTSD. Especially if you had the colonist and sole survivor backgrounds. I mean, how does seeing a boy die triggers it now? And why have dreams about that kid when worst has happened to Shepard? IMO, it was a great idea but could've been executed better or earlier in the series.

Modifié par mosesarose, 20 août 2012 - 01:13 .

[sheppard7]

mosesarose wrote...

Shepard should've been showed signs of PTSD. Especially if you had the colonist and sole survivor backgrounds. I mean, how does seeing a boy die triggers it now? And why have dreams about that kid when worst has happened to Shepard? IMO, it was a great idea but could've been executed better or earlier in the series.

Yeah. Earthborn implies being an orphan but doesn't mean necessarily death. Could be abandoned. Colonist puts it in the very words what happened.

And Bioware had a better way to put it there and could have used part of ME2 to support this even. Good idea but p-poor execution, Bioware.

[Blueprotoss]

sheppard7 wrote...

After you accused of lying to prove that was not a lie. I'm done with talking to a BW fanboi too blind to see past his own face in this thread. I'll speak to others but not you because it's a brick wall. Have a fun time.

I'm not being a Grammar Na.zi, but please use "lieing" instead of "lying".  I love how you're resorting to the petty insult of "Bioware fanboi" even when the only full Bioware series that I have played was ME.  Maybe you should focus that evertything isn't designed around you and you should realize that you're being the brick wall by focusing on opinion instead of the facts.  Btw most of the people on this topic would disagree with you, which means you won't be having a fun time after all.

sheppard7 wrote...

Yeah. Earthborn implies being an orphan but doesn't mean necessarily death. Could be abandoned. Colonist puts it in the very words what happened.

Yet you assume these things and you still don't visit that colony again while you do visit Earth again.

sheppard7 wrote... 

And Bioware had a better way to put it there and could have used part of ME2 to support this even. Good idea but p-poor execution, Bioware.

How is this when its up to opinion because of how writing is subjective by nature and I'm sure you're not getting paid 4-7 digits by writing.  Btw Shepard really didn't experience that much loss in ME2 even when he/she was resurrected or if the Suicide Mission went south. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 20 août 2012 - 02:33 .

[Blueprotoss]

mad825 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Regardless of how well or poorly you think the dream sequences were handled, I think Bioware should be given kudos for having Shepard suffer from PTSD in the fhird chapter. If you are going to create a video game set during a war, even if it is a fictional futuristic one, I think you also need to touch on some realistic themes and not glorify it. One of the things Bioware got right is in not portraying Shepard as a machine whose psyche is immune to the effects of being exposed to prolonged combat.

If you just read the above and are planning to hammer out a reply arguing that Shepard is a big goddamned hero that should have been immune thanks to his past experiences, do yourself a favor and google PTSD. It doesn't work that way. Also while you are at it, google Audie Murphy and  Siegfried Sasson.

Audie Murphy was the most decorated American soldier in World War Two, having been awarded the Medal of Honor, the Distinguished Service Cross, the Silver Star, and the Bronze Star for acts of bravery.

Siegfried Sassoon, the famed poet, was a British officer so recklessly brave during the First World War, that his men affectionately nicknamed him "Mad Jack." He was awarded the Military Cross for bravery, and would likely have been awarded a Victoria Cross as well, if he wasn't so vocally anti-war and critical of both Britian's government and High Command.

Both famously suffered from PTSD.

Shepard was suffering from Shell Shock.

It was a good idea however executed every poorly.

Shell Shock is normally related to weapons fire, which this isn't the case.

[RinuCZ]

Interesting thread.

hostaman wrote...
The only problem is that the character must have some dominant personality to enable the story to function. BW obviously felt that Shepherd was inately good and caring, and designed the story around this. However, it seems that many players like to see shephard as a more gung ho, disspansionate type, which fits less well with the PTSD narative, and may be a major reason that so many players dislike the star child. It makes shep look weak, as Grunt might say.
.

My Shepard was an innately good and caring person and yet the dreams and related worries got me disconnected from Shepard I used to know. Why? I agree with OP that the idea was great. My Paragon related to problems of others, it makes a sense she'd be affected by incidents she've experienced. But I played as a Spacer. My character spoke as she cared about individuals in general, not specifically and only humans. That she felt more like a member of galactic society than a member of Earth she hadn't seen until an intermezzo of ME2 and ME3.
Dreams using a random human kid combined with her raging about Earth forced Earth-born version of Shepard on me.

I guess if the subject of dreams was someone else (e.g. VS or a person sacrificed during the Battle of Citadel or a random Batarian from Arrival if I accepted DLC as a canon), the experience would be absorbing instead of plainly frustrating. Introducing a kid in a story just to cause an emotional impact fails to affect me every time except when it's written very well. Waltz with Bashir comes to my mind.

I'm fine with "PTSD narrative". I'd welcome it as a mature innovation, I even liked the visual representation of dream sequences. However Mass Effect used to be RPG with a protagonist of various personalities and it seems it forgot to consider that.

Modifié par RinuCZ, 20 août 2012 - 02:55 .

[Rifneno]

Han Shot First wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

The same Shepard who A. watched his entire unit get destroyed by giant space worms, B. butchered the slaver moon of Torfan with little regard for casualties or C. who killed wave after wave after wave of batarians on Elysium trying to defend the colony.
What about Jenkins? What about Kaidan? No PTSD after any of that?

But on noes a random kid who refused your help dies! You now have PTSD!

PTSD doesn't work the way you think it does. See OGWS's post.

In fact repeated exposure to traumatic events makes you more likely to experience symptoms.

It doesn't work the way you think it does either.  One of the biggest symptoms of PTSD is desperately wanting to avoid the situation or circumstances that lead to the trauma.  That's why Kelly Chambers won't go back to the Normandy.  That's why the asari in counseling doesn't want to be around humans and refuses to bathe.  If Shepard had PTSD, he'd be desperate to avoid Earth and the Reapers in general.  Spoiler: that's kind of the opposite of what happens.

Turns out there's symptoms to PTSD besides just nightmares!  Who know, right?

This thread sucks.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Blueprotoss wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Regardless of how well or poorly you think the dream sequences were handled, I think Bioware should be given kudos for having Shepard suffer from PTSD in the fhird chapter. If you are going to create a video game set during a war, even if it is a fictional futuristic one, I think you also need to touch on some realistic themes and not glorify it. One of the things Bioware got right is in not portraying Shepard as a machine whose psyche is immune to the effects of being exposed to prolonged combat.

If you just read the above and are planning to hammer out a reply arguing that Shepard is a big goddamned hero that should have been immune thanks to his past experiences, do yourself a favor and google PTSD. It doesn't work that way. Also while you are at it, google Audie Murphy and  Siegfried Sasson.

Audie Murphy was the most decorated American soldier in World War Two, having been awarded the Medal of Honor, the Distinguished Service Cross, the Silver Star, and the Bronze Star for acts of bravery.

Siegfried Sassoon, the famed poet, was a British officer so recklessly brave during the First World War, that his men affectionately nicknamed him "Mad Jack." He was awarded the Military Cross for bravery, and would likely have been awarded a Victoria Cross as well, if he wasn't so vocally anti-war and critical of both Britian's government and High Command.

Both famously suffered from PTSD.

MGS4 does it better tbh.

How is that when Snake isn't effected by PTSD while he's affected by Foxdie, which was based on him being a genetically engineered soldier off of BIg Boss.

You need to replay MGS4. Snake was never affected by PTSD

[Blueprotoss]

mosesarose wrote...

Shepard should've been showed signs of PTSD. Especially if you had the colonist and sole survivor backgrounds. I mean, how does seeing a boy die triggers it now? And why have dreams about that kid when worst has happened to Shepard? IMO, it was a great idea but could've been executed better or earlier in the series.

He/she was shown some signs of PTSD other then the nightmares based on some of the dialogue with Garrus and Liara.  Also PTSD varies from person to person including syptoms, causes, and damages.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 20 août 2012 - 02:38 .

[10K]

Blueprotoss wrote...

I'm not being a Grammar Na.zi, but please use "lieing" instead of "lying". 

Not to be a troll or anything,"lying" is the correct pronunciation of the present tense of the word "lie" "lieing" isn't a word.

[Rifneno]

Blueprotoss wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

Shepard should've been showed signs of PTSD. Especially if you had the colonist and sole survivor backgrounds. I mean, how does seeing a boy die triggers it now? And why have dreams about that kid when worst has happened to Shepard? IMO, it was a great idea but could've been executed better or earlier in the series.

He/she was shown some signs of PTSD other then the nightmares based on some of the dialogue with Garrus and Liara.  Also PTSD varies from person to person including syptoms, causes, and damages.

No.  There's slight signs of survivor guilt, which is related to but not the same thing as PTSD.  There's a bunch of symptoms of PTSD and the only one Shepard clearly has is also a symptom of a bad burrito before bedtime.

[mad825]

Blueprotoss wrote...

mad825 wrote...

Shepard was suffering from Shell Shock.

It was a good idea however executed every poorly.

Shell Shock is normally related to weapons fire, which this isn't the case.

Just like it doesn't apply here <_<.

In the space of two missions (earth and mars), he has been near or in twos explosions. Not even to mention the constant destruction on earth caused by the Reaper's rays.

Shepard began hallucinating on Earth and the symptoms got progressively worse as the fighting got worse until the every end he cracked for sure.

Modifié par mad825, 20 août 2012 - 02:46 .

[sheppard7]

Blueprotoss wrote...

sheppard7 wrote...

After you accused of lying to prove that was not a lie. I'm done with talking to a BW fanboi too blind to see past his own face in this thread. I'll speak to others but not you because it's a brick wall. Have a fun time.

I'm not being a Grammar Na.zi, but please use "lieing" instead of "lying".  I love how you're resorting to the petty insult of "Bioware fanboi" even when the only full Bioware series that I have played was ME.  Maybe you should focus that evertything isn't designed around you and you should realize that you're being the brick wall by focusing on opinion instead of the facts.  Btw most of the people on this topic would disagree with you, which means you won't be having a fun time after all.

sheppard7 wrote...

Yeah. Earthborn implies being an orphan but doesn't mean necessarily death. Could be abandoned. Colonist puts it in the very words what happened.

Yet you assume these things and you still don't visit that colony again while you do visit Earth again.

sheppard7 wrote... 

And Bioware had a better way to put it there and could have used part of ME2 to support this even. Good idea but p-poor execution, Bioware.

How is this when its up to opinion because of how writing is subjective by nature and I'm sure you're not getting paid 4-7 digits by writing.  Btw Shepard really didn't experience that much loss in ME2 even when he/she was resurrected or if the Suicide Mission went south. 

"Lieing"? English is not your first language? I wasn't going to talk to you again but you pull grammar and tell me to use a word like "Lieing"? Can you link it for me please, oh Lord and Master of Language You Believe You Are? And yes, I saw you pull the same thing in another thread and there you showed your homerism and fanboi mentality for Bioware as well.

Using Urban Dictionary  or a wiki won't count by the way. Those types of places can be edited to say anything. Oh and since I am asking you to link "lieing" to me, I will link you "lying".

http://dictionary.re...om/browse/lying

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lying

http://www.webster-d...efinition/lying

[sheppard7]

mosesarose wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

I'm not being a Grammar Na.zi, but please use "lieing" instead of "lying". 

Not to be a troll or anything,"lying" is the correct pronunciation of the present tense of the word "lie" "lieing" isn't a word.

He just showed how big of an idiot he can be is all. LMAO at "lieing".

[10K]

Blueprotoss wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

Shepard should've been showed signs of PTSD. Especially if you had the colonist and sole survivor backgrounds. I mean, how does seeing a boy die triggers it now? And why have dreams about that kid when worst has happened to Shepard? IMO, it was a great idea but could've been executed better or earlier in the series.

He/she was shown some signs of PTSD other then the nightmares based on some of the dialogue with Garrus and Liara.  Also PTSD varies from person to person including syptoms, causes, and damages.

When taking with Garrus and Liara, Shepard expresses his sympathy towards that boy back on Earth. Especially speaking with Garrus. My point was why show his PTSD now, and why does seeing the boy's death triggers it. A colonist Shepard should have showed signs of PTSD earlier, seeing a boy die shouldn't have suddenly triggered PTSD symtoms and an extreme longing to take back earth. When in fact a conlonist Shepard isn't even from Earth. I just feel they should of thought this idea out more befrore using it.

[sheppard7]

mosesarose wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

Shepard should've been showed signs of PTSD. Especially if you had the colonist and sole survivor backgrounds. I mean, how does seeing a boy die triggers it now? And why have dreams about that kid when worst has happened to Shepard? IMO, it was a great idea but could've been executed better or earlier in the series.

He/she was shown some signs of PTSD other then the nightmares based on some of the dialogue with Garrus and Liara.  Also PTSD varies from person to person including syptoms, causes, and damages.

When taking with Garrus and Liara, Shepard expresses his sympathy towards that boy back on Earth. Especially speaking with Garrus. My point was why show his PTSD now, and why does seeing the boy's death triggers it. A colonist Shepard should have showed signs of PTSD earlier, seeing a boy die shouldn't have suddenly triggered PTSD symtoms and an extreme longing to take back earth. When in fact a conlonist Shepard isn't even from Earth. I just feel they should of thought this idea out more befrore using it.

That too. Spacer taking back Earth feeling would be acceptable though. Military kid so his home can be considered what the parents grew up calling home. Growing up a military kid myself I can relate to that. Hell, I have zero connection to where I was born because by the time I turned four, I had lived in five different places and one of those was because my father went to war and we couldn't follow him there of course.

My older brother was born in Europe but he doesn't have a personal connection to where he was born because he left there before he was 18 months old as the next born was born in California and she's only 18 months younger than him. He even makes awful stereotypical jokes about that European country to show how much he doesn't feel connected to it.

[Rifneno]

Again, survivor guilt is a related problem but not PTSD. You can get PTSD from situations where no one dies and no one else is harmed. How do you get survivor guilt from that? You can get them both from one event, but they aren't the same disorder.

PTSD is just a stupid idea that non-IT'ers came up with to explain the dreams. Shepard doesn't have PTSD. The only real symptom he has is nightmares, which is a symptom of dozens of things, indoctrination included. Unlike the OP and everyone agreeing with him, the writers of this series actually know there's more to PTSD than nightmares. That's why the asari commando and Kelly Chambers show other symptoms. Other symptoms that, once again, Shepard does not. Because Shepard does not have PTSD. Diagnosing PTSD from a few nightmares is like diagnosing ebola from a fever.