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Players Want Day-One DLC, According to BioWare


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#26
KENNY4753

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Mike_Neel wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

lets put it this way if you have the 60 dollars to get the game why not pay 10 extra to get the dlc. it truely isnt that big of a deal and if you dont like it then dont buy the dlc


Value is subjective from person to person. What's worht 60 dollars and an extra 10 to you might not even be worth 40 to some other people. For example. My friend is willing to spend 500 dollars on a pair of shoes. To me no pair of shoes is worth that much money unles it comes with rockets or super awesome springs for wicked sweet jumps. But to him, they are. 

So sure, paying 60 bucks for a game and 10 for DLC is no big deal to you, but it might be to some of us. Of course your final thought of if you don't like don't buy it is 100% correct as well. But that's not the issue, or main complaing with day 1 DLC. the big complaint is that people feel like they are missing out on essential or core parts of the game or narrative and are being forced to pay an extra 10-15 dollars to enjoy the full and complete experience. 


I see what you mean. I know that fans feel like they are getting cheated but I honestly don't think that they should be getting worked up over it.

#27
deuce985

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I don't mind this at all if it isn't content cut from retail.

If they used a different team to design the DLC as they completed the final game, I'm fine by that. I seriously doubt any day 1 DLC does that though. Maybe the exception is DA:Origins since they completed the game way before the launch.

Can't get any worse than Capcom. They code lock content on the disc and try to sell it as day 1 DLC...pathetic. Or in Asura's Wrath case, they made you pay retail for a 25% complete game. Then they made you buy the DLC to get the rest of the game, Lol. That's 100x worse than EA practices. If they had a company worse than EA, it would be Capcom.

Modifié par deuce985, 19 août 2012 - 12:48 .


#28
Shadow of Light Dragon

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I don't mind the idea of Day 1 DLC so long as it is truly additional content, and not something that was cut from the core game to be packaged as a pseudo separate entity.

#29
brushyourteeth

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I'm fine with day 1 DLC as I realize that it's not much more expensive and $60 is relatively cheap considering the lack of dramatic inflation we've seen in the gaming market (I used to save up my allowance to buy $50 super nintendo games when I was 8). I usually preorder and after experiencing that extra content I can't imagine the game without it (The Exiled Prince, the Black Emporium).

What I DO have a problem with is how you get some exclusive trinkets for preordering from one vendor but not another. If I preorder at amazon I may get item A. If I preorder at Gamestop I may get item B but not item A. If I preorder at Walmart I may get item C but not item A or B. Currently I play on console (which will probably change for DAIII) but I understand something similar happens with the pc version too. I find that incredibly irritating.

#30
deuce985

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brushyourteeth wrote...

I'm fine with day 1 DLC as I realize that it's not much more expensive and $60 is relatively cheap considering the lack of dramatic inflation we've seen in the gaming market (I used to save up my allowance to buy $50 super nintendo games when I was 8). I usually preorder and after experiencing that extra content I can't imagine the game without it (The Exiled Prince, the Black Emporium).

What I DO have a problem with is how you get some exclusive trinkets for preordering from one vendor but not another. If I preorder at amazon I may get item A. If I preorder at Gamestop I may get item B but not item A. If I preorder at Walmart I may get item C but not item A or B. Currently I play on console (which will probably change for DAIII) but I understand something similar happens with the pc version too. I find that incredibly irritating.


I hate that too. I have a bad habit buying codes to get all the "exclusive" pre-order bonuses from vendors.

I MUST have every item in Dragon Age. That means playing a mediocre Facebook game or whatever. I don't care.

It's like this: Posted Image

#31
gangly369

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I don't really know how I feel about this. On the one hand I don't like it simply because it feels like a money grab, and yes it usually feels like it should have already been part of the main game. On the other hand, however, I realize that making games has become increasingly more expensive over the last few years, and that companies need to find a way to bring in extra revenue, especially on games such as these which often employ high profile VA and other expensive resources.

It would be easier for me to decide if I knew what the big bosses were making off of these games. If, for example, they were making a **** ton of money but they just aren't spreading the wealth evenly enough, then I would of course be against anything that grants them more money, because it's essentially their fault for not dividing the money properly and overpaying the CEOs. If however they were dividing the revenue in a fair manner, than I would support day 1 dlc because this is a company that makes games I love, and I want to support everyone involved in making it. Of course this is an entirely separate issue, and the chances of a lowly university student getting a hold of this info is highly unlikely :)

#32
Sanunes

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I think part of the problem isn't just EA and BioWare, you have to look at Sony and Microsoft as well. They have some pretty restrictive rules on what can be done for their platforms and one of them is they have to have a game a certain about of time before release for certification and it can't change after that time. That leaves an annoying window where the developer can sit on their hands or continue to develop, so BioWare continued to develop and the way they can get that content to their people that purchased the game is to release it as DLC. Now it could be released as a "free" DLC, but in a world where Microsoft charges $40,000 for a basic patch to the game, it could be astronomical for a DLC that is around a gigabyte in size.

Edit to add:

What is really bothering me is buying real world items for in-game content, it was something they introduced with Dragon Age 2 and continued with Mass Effect 3 and I hope I don't see it again.  Thankfully with Mass Effect 3 it was a single multiplayer item that the more items you bought the higher level the item was, but still it stank of a sponsored money grab.

Modifié par Sanunes, 19 août 2012 - 05:37 .


#33
Xerxes52

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I'm fine with day one DLC, when new copies include a redeemable code (like The Stone Prisoner and The Black Emporium, also Warden's Keep and The Exiled Prince) for it.

Day one DLC is a great incentive for new purchases imo.

#34
ElitePinecone

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I want it.

If they have the time between the game going gold and launch, more content is always a good thing and I'm prepared to pay for it, with in reason.

#35
carine

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ElitePinecone wrote...

I want it.

If they have the time between the game going gold and launch, more content is always a good thing and I'm prepared to pay for it, with in reason.


Yep, basically this.

#36
Plaintiff

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I love Day 1 DLC. I love getting something extra for pre-ordering, or purchasing the special edition, I love the fact that there is extra content that I can download right away, instead of waiting for it to come out long after I completed the game, by which point I may have lost all interest. The presence of bonus content is the main determiner for me when it comes to deciding to pre-order, or waiting for a while until the game has released.

It's clear why they do it. DLC sells best early, when hype for the game is still fresh. The first week after release of the main game, DLC sales drop steeply and continue to drop.

It's not a "scam" or any sort of trick. The people who think that game companies deliberately cut this content just so they can charge extra for it are paranoid consipracy theorists. If DLC did not exist, then these extra things would NOT be bundled into the main game for no extra charge. They simply would never exist.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 19 août 2012 - 07:31 .


#37
Uccio

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Emzamination wrote...

Ukki wrote...

No thank you. You have extra content, you include it into the game from start.


No, you pay for it, that's why it's called Extra content.

This speaks to me, I've always agreed with the concept of Day 1 dlc, the faster bio can churn out content and expansions the happier I'll be =]




The way I see it is that if there is "extra" content available at start then leaving it outside the game is just plain money milking. Yeah I know, its a business. Doesn´t mean that I have to like such behaviour though.

#38
kingjezza

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I have no problem with day one DLC when it's like The Stone Prisoner, everybody who buys a new copy of the game receives it, that was never a problem for me, it seems fair and reasonable to reward those who buy the game.

My problem is that Bioware are ever increasingly looking for greedier ways to make money and sell day 1 DLC, it's no longer about rewarding those who buy their games new, but milking every last penny out of their fan base. The signature Edition and ME3 both had characters and quests that you would only get if you fulfilled a certain criteria (beyond buying a new copy of the game), either ordering before a certain date or ordering the super special awesome edition.

Both to me are morally unscrupulous, but sadly, what I now expect from Bioware/EA.

Modifié par kingjezza, 19 août 2012 - 11:19 .


#39
eswaine

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Plaintiff wrote...

I love Day 1 DLC. I love getting something extra for pre-ordering, or purchasing the special edition, I love the fact that there is extra content that I can download right away, instead of waiting for it to come out long after I completed the game, by which point I may have lost all interest. The presence of bonus content is the main determiner for me when it comes to deciding to pre-order, or waiting for a while until the game has released.

It's clear why they do it. DLC sells best early, when hype for the game is still fresh. The first week after release of the main game, DLC sales drop steeply and continue to drop.

It's not a "scam" or any sort of trick. The people who think that game companies deliberately cut this content just so they can charge extra for it are paranoid consipracy theorists. If DLC did not exist, then these extra things would NOT be bundled into the main game for no extra charge. They simply would never exist.


What she/he said !!

#40
Wozearly

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Plaintiff wrote...

It's not a "scam" or any sort of trick. The people who think that game companies deliberately cut this content just so they can charge extra for it are paranoid consipracy theorists. If DLC did not exist, then these extra things would NOT be bundled into the main game for no extra charge. They simply would never exist.


I disagree with you, and I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

If you take a character like Sebastian, its highly unlikely that he was created from scratch in the period between finalising the retail submission and launch day, given that would have involved recalling all of the voice actors as well as crafting new content areas, revisiting a lot of quest line dialogues, etc.

We now risk an argument about project planning and semantics, but...

If the entire game was actually finished at the retail submission, and the marketing and development teams deliberately excised a portion to be sold as DLC for extra profit, that would be cheeky (albeit good economics). Having worked in QA and seen the chaos that can happen near a release date, I'd predict that this is very unlikely. That seems to be what you're presenting the conspiracy theorists as suggesting.

The reality is less clear cut. Day 1 DLC is planned to exist from the outset. Along the way, when the game is taking clearer shape, exactly what it will be is decided. In the case of the character DLCs, this also really means working on them during the main game development as they need to be certain of integration, ensure cost efficiency with voice acting, etc.

The million dollar question is whether Sebastian would never have been conceived without DLC; "we're only putting in enough time to develop (x) number of characters. Any more would be DLC", or whether Sebastian was a potential character in any event who was marked out for DLC because she could be made non-critical to the overall storyline.

How much time Bioware spent working on Sebastian pre-retail or post-retail isn't actually all that relevant, if we accept the premise that they needed the extra cash from DLC to commit the additional resource. But this would require quite skilled project planning to work out in advance "Exactly this much content, fine. One bit too more? Heck no, that means DLC".

The problem I see about the Day 1 DLC characters is that this is done knowing that Bioware's fans feel very strongly about companions, which is a good recipe for sales. However, its clear that they weren't created from scratch at the 11th hour, or reluctant cut at the last minute from retail, which creates the impression that this was done purely with a view to targeting longer-term fans...and the fact that a lot of the content is on the disc and ready to go generates badwill, as it reinforces the perception of being ripped off.

I think a number of fans are rightly cynical about Day 1 DLC being more about EA's wider efforts to experiment with different pricing models than about being necessary to ensure the developer's vision for the game is realised.

Attempting to charge each person (or group of people) what they are prepared to pay, rather than charging everyone the same price for the same (or practically identical) product, is a well-established marketing model. Just take a look at the oh-so-well-loved DVD region restrictions.

Its a great model if you're an occasional purchaser as you'll get a better price on day 1. Its also a great model if you're the seller, because it should raise both sales and profit. The problem is that it transfers the costs of being able to do this onto your best customers, so that boost for short-term profit actually undermines almost all the established wisdom of how to develop a loyal customer base.

In principle it can work in the long-run, but only if people who are paying over the odds don't know what others are paying, if they genuinely believe the extra they paid led to a value-for-money superior version of the product, or if there are sufficient barriers to getting the cheaper price that they are unwilling to go through them.

DLC price divisions are highly visible, the content is generally rated as lower quality than in the rest of the game, and its actually slightly easier to buy the non-DLC version at launch than the DLC version. Which is not a good sign for the future.

Its also worth noting that the industries which most widely adopt this
model tend to have severe problems with customer relations...


But not all Day 1 DLC is bad. Stone Prisoner didn't get a rough ride (from memory) from core fans because it was used to target the resales market. Nor is all later DLC great (Levi Dryden's in-game advertising was widely criticised).


TL;DR = being rationally cynical about the reality behind why Day 1 DLC is appearing so much doesn't mean you're a conspiracy theorist. ;)

Modifié par Wozearly, 19 août 2012 - 12:20 .


#41
Mr Fixit

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Plaintiff wrote...

The people who think that game companies deliberately cut this content just so they can charge extra for it are paranoid consipracy theorists.


I have no reason to believe that BioWare deliberately cuts content, but to think that no companies could possibly do it is rather silly. And calling those who believe in such practices "paranoid conspiracy theorists" is even sillier.

#42
Plaintiff

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Wozearly wrote...
*snip*

Of course Sebastian wasn't just whipped up in the interim between completion and launch, that would be a stupid thing to suggest, which is why I didn't suggest it.. Obviously the companies plan for and prepare DLC while still working on the game proper, I never said otherwise.

As I mentioned earlier, DLC sales drop exponentially in the time after release, and this phenomenon has always existed. Expansion packs,  which could be considered the precursors to DLC, have always sold poorly compared to the base game.

The highest recorded sales for any DLC happen during the one-two weeks immediatly following launch of the main title. In order to get the content out on time to hit that deadline and maximise profits, the DLC has to have been prepared well in advance. The longer you wait, the less point there is in doing it at all.

Deciding what will be included in the main game and what could potentially be DLC, likely happens in the pre-production stage. I don't know for sure, I'm not in the industry.

We can never know for absolutely certain what games would be like if the concept of DLC did not exist, but the game industry, like all industries, has always had deadlines, and there's only so far they can be pushed back before it reaches the point where the project might as well be utterly scrapped. There will never be room for everything anyway, and there's probably a lot of things (characters, side quests, etc) from DA:O and DA2 that never got beyond paper, but nobody accuses Bioware of peddling 'incomplete' games on that basis.

#43
wsandista

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I don't like Day 1 DLC for the reason some on the last page don't, I would prefer a Day1 Patch to fix the problems that can cause the game to be unplayable. I would be more willing to pay for DLC a month after release for a game that works well with little bugs, than a pay a week after(I never buy DLC on Day1 anyways) for DLC on a game that has game-breaking or extremely frustrating bugs.

#44
Shadowvalker

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Don't like DLC's that takes place during the story being told - like buying a book and after reading it the author wants to make me buy chapter 2a, 4a and 4b...

DLC's that taks place after the main story are okay.

#45
Atakuma

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Shadowvalker wrote...

Don't like DLC's that takes place during the story being told - like buying a book and after reading it the author wants to make me buy chapter 2a, 4a and 4b...

DLC's that taks place after the main story are okay.

Most DLC are stand alone stories, your comparison doesn't make any sense.

#46
Emzamination

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Atakuma wrote...

Shadowvalker wrote...

Don't like DLC's that takes place during the story being told - like buying a book and after reading it the author wants to make me buy chapter 2a, 4a and 4b...

DLC's that taks place after the main story are okay.

Most DLC are stand alone stories, your comparison doesn't make any sense.


It's a masked reference to Me3, IInm.

#47
Kidd

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Day 1 DLC isn't an evil business practice just because it's day 1 DLC. Just like any DLC isn't evil just because it's DLC. If the content wouldn't have been created unless it was going to be sold as DLC - no matter when that development happened - then I have no beef with it being DLC. I don't expect people to work for free, after all. The chief problem with it all is that it is pretty much impossible most of the time to know whether the developers for any single game are being truthful with you.

Heck, even in cases like Street Fighter 4's costumes that were on the disc all along and only got their unlock codes released as DLC months down the line, I'm not sure I want to hate on that. It's very possible that Capcom wasn't lying when they said the costumes wouldn't have been made if they didn't know they could sell them as DLC later. Who am I to complain that I need to pay for more content?

Even though my logical brain says that though, I must admit downloading a 108kb file to unlock stuff that's been on my disc for months still leaves me with some bad feelings.

#48
Darth Death

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Don't like day-one dlc, nor will I ever... Unless it's free.

#49
BioFan (Official)

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Reznore57 wrote...



I mean i like the idea of DLC , but character cut from the game just suck...usually the character suffer from it .(Sebastien fake romance , he can't go in the fade , he's not part of your companion in act1)



He did seem like he wasn't supposed to be there.... <_<

#50
carine

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Ericander77 wrote...

Reznore57 wrote...



I mean i like the idea of DLC , but character cut from the game just suck...usually the character suffer from it .(Sebastien fake romance , he can't go in the fade , he's not part of your companion in act1)



He did seem like he wasn't supposed to be there.... <_<


I was pretty annoyed when I discovered he couldn't go into the Fade. Also annoyed that he his romance is in speaking terms only and you have to not flirt with every other character in the game to get that.