142 réponses à ce sujet

[enderandrew]

How about they try to create original nations that don't obviously mimic nations on Earth?

[Dahelia]

enderandrew wrote...

How about they try to create original nations that don't obviously mimic nations on Earth?

Can't because everything and anything is influenced by Earth...no matter what. Tell me a nation you would like and I can tell you which nation you are copying...You can't use Presidents, Kings, Queens, no assassins, mobs, actually do not use any form of royality, no magic, no form of religion...ready, set, go!

Modifié par Dahelia, 23 décembre 2009 - 05:54 .

[Dark83]

In terms of governments, Earth has had:

Communisists, despots, dictators, monarchies, theocracies, facists, confederations, and tyrants. Autocracies, Oligarchies, Democracies, and Republics. That's obviously not all. The only form of government that really hasn't existed is Magocracy, since we have no magic.

To be truly unique, you'd need what, a new language and culture? Systems of beliefs?

Game designers tend not to be anthropologists. It's not a worthwhile investment of time and money.

[enderandrew]

Funny, because Tolkien created Middle Earth, and none of the nations in Middle Earth resemble our nations. Bethesda created Tamriel, and the nations don't mimic our nations. The races don't resemble our races. They created several unique cultures that don't borrow too heavily from our own.



People do it all the time.

[Dahelia]

enderandrew wrote...

Funny, because Tolkien created Middle Earth, and none of the nations in Middle Earth resemble our nations. Bethesda created Tamriel, and the nations don't mimic our nations. The races don't resemble our races. They created several unique cultures that don't borrow too heavily from our own.

People do it all the time.

Middle Earth...as for the Elves, represent 1950s in America...actually you could go as far as say the Victorian Age...

As for Tamriel...many people believe it does stem from Earth as well..INCLUDING the religion of which is believed in Tamriel.

[AsheraII]

Dark83 wrote...

In terms of governments, Earth has had:
Communisists, despots, dictators, monarchies, theocracies, facists, confederations, and tyrants. Autocracies, Oligarchies, Democracies, and Republics. That's obviously not all. The only form of government that really hasn't existed is Magocracy, since we have no magic.
To be truly unique, you'd need what, a new language and culture? Systems of beliefs?
Game designers tend not to be anthropologists. It's not a worthwhile investment of time and money.

Well, there's also  the "hive mind" as a form of government, non existant for humans, but it does exist in DA:O with the Darkspawn. But it's an idea that also existed before DA:O was conceived of course. Starship Troopers has it, and so does some species in the Ender Wiggins books by Orson Scott Card, the Borg in Star Trek, and plenty of other stories. Coming up with some new and unique form of government/civilization is pretty hard, given our limitations as humans

[BooPi]

So today the plagiarism in question is that Zevran and the character from Assassins that Antonio Banderas played:

1) have a similar voice
2) are assassins
3) are funny

...and this constitutes plagiarism?

Pwned by the Gaider.

[enderandrew]

You're going on a HUGE stretch saying Elvish culture is 1950's America. I still struggle to see where you get that on any level.



And Tamriel doesn't have one religion, and not a single religion I've seen in any Tamriel culture closely resembles an Earth religion.



Conversely, the Orlesians are clearly French. They make no effort to hide it.

[enderandrew]

Don't forget that Antonio Banderas played Tom Cruise's boyfriend in Philadelphia, so they both go both ways.

[AntiChri5]

What is this, war of the irrelevant youtube clips?

[Dark83]

Tamriel? I thought it was the Empire (with Legions, no less). There's obviously tribal cultures, the Bretons are feudal, and so forth. The Dunmer seem to have a cross between theocracy and oligarchy. Really though, you need to be more specific - how are they different, culturally?

[Matthias Umbra]

enderandrew wrote...

Funny, because Tolkien created Middle Earth, and none of the nations in Middle Earth resemble our nations. Bethesda created Tamriel, and the nations don't mimic our nations. The races don't resemble our races. They created several unique cultures that don't borrow too heavily from our own.

People do it all the time.

Umm...you're kidding, right?  I love Tolkien, but to say his works are completely original is a fallacy.  He was heavily inspired by Finnish, Norse and Celtic mythology.  The idea of goblins and orcs come from mythology.  Even the whole cosmology of Middle-Earth is based off of religion, as the Valar are like the angels, Illuvatar is God, and Morgoth is Lucifer. 

The cultures in the Lord of the Rings itself are also loosely based off real world cultures.  The people of Rohan, for instance, are very heavily influenced by Norse culture (not just in the movies, look at the style of their names) and the kingdom of Gondor is very similar to Western Europe.

As for Tamriel, to say that Cyrodil and the Imperial race are not heavily based off of Rome is untrue.  The Bretons are also based off of Northwestern Europe (specifically Ireland and England, as portrayed in TES2: Daggerfall), and the Nords are based off of Northern Europeans.  Redguards are less defined, but seem to have some sort of Carribean influence.  Also, the elves in these games borrow heavily from other fantasy settings.

[Dahelia]

enderandrew wrote...

You're going on a HUGE stretch saying Elvish culture is 1950's America. I still struggle to see where you get that on any level.

And Tamriel doesn't have one religion, and not a single religion I've seen in any Tamriel culture closely resembles an Earth religion.

Conversely, the Orlesians are clearly French. They make no effort to hide it.

Also Middle Earth has royality, a king...a queen...a prince...which is taken from England and other countries...Middle Earth can be seen by many cultures across the world. Nothing was ever thought up out of thin air. Oh yes...and  Tolkien also stated that Middle Earth..is apart of Earth just in a fictional past.

As for Tamriel, we are talking about Pantheons right? Many...that is...oh...wait for it...Polytheism religions...which happen to be Paganism, Wiccanism. Also the Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians believed in this...these two "types" of religions(Aedra and Daedra) can be brought back to this...many have a parallel.

[enderandrew]

I'm not saying Tolkien wasn't inspired by mythology, just that the nations don't directly mimic our nations.



The Imperial Race takes a bit of inspiration from the Roman empire, but Cyrodil in Oblivion sure didn't look Roman. They didn't speak with a Roman accent. The architecture wasn't Roman. Their history doesn't match Roman history. Their religion and traditions doesn't match Rome.



The armor and weapons are inspired by Roman weapons. They have an Empire. But in many ways, Cyrodil is very unique.

[Dahelia]

Matthias Umbra wrote...

enderandrew wrote...

Funny, because Tolkien created Middle Earth, and none of the nations in Middle Earth resemble our nations. Bethesda created Tamriel, and the nations don't mimic our nations. The races don't resemble our races. They created several unique cultures that don't borrow too heavily from our own.

People do it all the time.

Umm...you're kidding, right?  I love Tolkien, but to say his works are completely original is a fallacy.  He was heavily inspired by Finnish, Norse and Celtic mythology.  The idea of goblins and orcs come from mythology.  Even the whole cosmology of Middle-Earth is based off of religion, as the Valar are like the angels, Illuvatar is God, and Morgoth is Lucifer. 

The cultures in the Lord of the Rings itself are also loosely based off real world cultures.  The people of Rohan, for instance, are very heavily influenced by Norse culture (not just in the movies, look at the style of their names) and the kingdom of Gondor is very similar to Western Europe.

As for Tamriel, to say that Cyrodil and the Imperial race are not heavily based off of Rome is untrue.  The Bretons are also based off of Northwestern Europe (specifically Ireland and England, as portrayed in TES2: Daggerfall), and the Nords are based off of Northern Europeans.  Redguards are less defined, but seem to have some sort of Carribean influence.  Also, the elves in these games borrow heavily from other fantasy settings.

You said it better than I did x.x Darn you!

[enderandrew]

The Aedra and Daedra don't mimic any religion on Earth. Saying there are multiple gods, and thusly it is the same as Wicca is a very huge stretch.

[Dahelia]

enderandrew wrote...

The Aedra and Daedra don't mimic any religion on Earth. Saying there are multiple gods, and thusly it is the same as Wicca is a very huge stretch.

Believing that they are decents of  the Gods...or that they are stronger than the Gods actually comes from Rome, Greece, and Egypt....
Egypt's royality itself declared they were Gods and came from the Gods.

[KalosCast]

I've had a beard way before this game came out. Duncan is plagiarism.

[Dahelia]

KalosCast wrote...

I've had a beard way before this game came out. Duncan is plagiarism.

I was born with red hair...Leliana is plagerizing me.

[Dark83]

enderandrew wrote...

The Aedra and Daedra don't mimic any religion on Earth.

Actually, they remind me of my own culture's (Chinese) mythology.

[enderandrew]

Apparently you don't know what the Aedra and Deadra are. They used to be one group, but the Aedra took part in creation, and lost their immortality in doing do. The Daedra did not take part in creation, and did not sacrifice their powers.



They aren't Greek Titans, or anything like Egyptian royalty.



They created a huge, original pantheon with great history and stories. You quickly latch on to one (incorrect) trait and seem to think they are a carbon copy of something else. However, as someone who studies mythology, history and culture, there is no easy parallel for the Aedra and Daedra in Earth culture because Bethesda worked on creating something fairly original.

[Dahelia]

enderandrew wrote...

Apparently you don't know what the Aedra and Deadra are. They used to be one group, but the Aedra took part in creation, and lost their immortality in doing do. The Daedra did not take part in creation, and did not sacrifice their powers.

They aren't Greek Titans, or anything like Egyptian royalty.

They created a huge, original pantheon with great history and stories. You quickly latch on to one (incorrect) trait and seem to think they are a carbon copy of something else. However, as someone who studies mythology, history and culture, there is no easy parallel for the Aedra and Daedra in Earth culture because Bethesda worked on creating something fairly original.

I highly doubt you study mythology, history and culture...if you cannot see the similiarities and try to make yourself seem like you know what you are talking about. I forget, you are right...I'm sorry.

[Dark83]

enderandrew wrote...

Apparently you don't know what the Aedra and Deadra are. They used to be one group, but the Aedra took part in creation, and lost their immortality in doing do. The Daedra did not take part in creation, and did not sacrifice their powers.

<snip>

They created a huge, original pantheon with great history and stories. You quickly latch on to one (incorrect) trait and seem to think they are a carbon copy of something else. However, as someone who studies mythology, history and culture, there is no easy parallel for the Aedra and Daedra in Earth culture because Bethesda worked on creating something fairly original.

Not the history, but how they end up being presented. Sure, you can get down to the specifics, but then we may as well say that, due to the history of Orlais not surrendering, they're not like France.
In practice, they're all seperate powerful entities that are worshipped or appeased. (Not so much in real life, but in real life demons don't actually appear if you don't offer a goat.)
I have a commoner's level of understanding of the Chinese folklore and legends, and it's roughly the same as what you pick up wandering around Daggerfall, Morrowind, or Oblivion.

[enderandrew]

You compared them to Egyptians. So clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.



I've been fairly obsessed with studying culture and history for the better part of the past 15 years.

[Dahelia]

enderandrew wrote...

You compared them to Egyptians. So clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.

I've been fairly obsessed with studying culture and history for the better part of the past 15 years.

Actually I also compared them to the Romans and Greeks...thank you very much. I'm also Pagan....big deal? Doesn't make you an authority on something...