182 réponses à ce sujet

[Reth Shepherd]

So in today's Reddit conversation, you said, "Our community can be improved which will in turn improve the feedback we receive which will in turn improve the games we make." I am confused by this. I was under the impression that Mass Effect 3 had generated a great deal of extremely detailed feedback on nearly every aspect of the game. I've heard overall story themes dissected, character arcs, gameplay mechanics, what types of missions people prefer..., you name it, it's probably had a thread or twelve. People have spent hours detailing what they did or did not like about nearly everything. So what precisely did you mean by "improve the feedback we receive which will in turn improve the games we make"?

One possibility seems to be that by "improve the feedback" you are referring to feedback accuracy, a tentative conclusion I reached after remembering an earlier comment you made about why you and Bioware ultimately elected to not use the massive fan survey created by MikeC99 (and promoted by you personally), where you stated that you believed that the data was incorrect because certain numbers didn't match up to your personal statistics. Specifically, I believe you mentioned Femshep to Maleshep ratio and what platform people played on. If this conclusion is true, well, you've seen our data and how it was collected and processed. Could we see yours? You've made more than one statement that you are confident in Bioware's decisions because of the internal data you've collected. Would it be possible for us to see it, too? Right now the only conclusions we can draw are ones based off of the data we have collected. Your statements suggest another data set. Could you show us why you made the conclusions you did?

(P.S. If anyone has a Twitter account, would you mind linking this to her? I really would love a reply!)

[CmndrFisher]

Look down at the bottom of this page. Jess Merizan's name is in the list of moderators. You can send a send a messgae directly by clicking on the name.

Good points BTW.

[nopantsisabela]

Hey do you happen to have a link to the Reddit conversation?

[Deemz]

nopantsisabela wrote...

Hey do you happen to have a link to the Reddit conversation?

She mentions it in her twitter feed

[Meltemph]

I dont want Bioware to create games based on feedback. I want them to fix mistakes they made in previous games, with that feedback, but that is about it. They do enough, "and the survey says" as it is, imo.

[inko1nsiderate]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

So what precisely did you mean by "improve the feedback we receive which will in turn improve the games we make"?

Come on.  Most of the threads quickly devolve into arguments between a handful of motivated posters.  Of these threads most are threads about telling people who choose certain endings that they are morally rephrensible and that x ending is the real ending.

Other threads complain about really nitpicky things that don't matter or are already explained ingame/so trivial to explain there is no real need to address the complaint.

Of all the threads on all of BSN there are a few that are well reasoned, well presented, and also level headed and do not devolve into arguments.  Of those threads even fewer work within constraints of real world game development, the boundaries Bioware has clearly set with how far they are willing to go, etc. .  Of those remaining threads, even fewer are not IT related.

At the end of the day, this means most of the actual 'feedback' on BSN is useless.  Thus, there is a high signal to noise ratio and the valid and truly implementable feedback just gets lost.  

I'm not saying this feedback doesn't exist, or that most people who hate the endings are irrational, but what I am saying is that most people who post on BSN have next to nothing productive to contribute (myself included) and so any real feedback is easily lost in a sea of triviality.

Modifié par inko1nsiderate, 19 août 2012 - 07:29 .

[Jadebaby]

Reth Shepherd wrote...
*snip*
(P.S. If anyone has a Twitter account, would you mind linking this to her? I really would love a reply!)

Good luck getting that to her in 140 characters or less.

Maybe it's because she knows something you don't know...

That hidden variable that brought up similiar responses such as; "If you knew what we had planned for Mass Effect 3. You would hold onto your copies forever."

[Little Princess Peach]

I dont see the point in feedback they got rid of the mako instead of improving it they got rid of Harby instead of having a boss fight, they added only the unless bits that people sudjested
seems Bioware will only take in context on the opoinions of morons

[EnvyTB075]

Jade8aby88 wrote...
"If you knew what we had planned for Mass Effect 3. You would hold onto your copies forever."

After seeing nothing, i'd wager that its just PR speak, the same way BioWare are telling gamers that they unanimously like Day 1 DLC when they quite clearly don't.

And seeing as Leviathan isn't really that exciting, i don't know why i'd keep hold of my copy forever other than for the occasional MP game.

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

I dont see the point in
feedback they got rid of the mako instead of improving it they got rid
of Harby instead of having a boss fight, they added only the unless bits
that people sudjested
seems Bioware will only take in context on the opoinions of morons

Its easier to remove things than actually fix them. See Codemasters (craptastic) attempts at OFP.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 19 août 2012 - 08:45 .

[Siran]

I think she meant that she improves the way they collect feedback and channel it in a way it can be used to help them make Games that people like. We know she did handle the feedback collection for the EC and that ended up taking up suggestions from the community, so I guess this is the best example for her statement. And having met her at Gamescom I honestly believe that this is not just "PR" talk but something she will continue to do for upcoming games and DLCs.

I don't think all the data they collected is really something they are able to show for obvious reasons. One of them being confidentiality, as it was most likely used for internal presentations and not for public view.

BTW - it might be hard getting a swift answer since she's still in Germany and might not have the time to reply at once.

Modifié par Siran, 19 août 2012 - 08:49 .

[Pantegana]

Maybe she means BW needs something more structured than the BSN, after all it must be hard to follow ALL the threads on this big forum.
And even if you did follow all of them and read all the posts, it would take a lot of time to make something out of all the "raw" feedback you've got O_o

[tyrvas]

I personally don't want to hear any more comments from this person,
according to her we should not get too attached to a plot.

[Jadebaby]

tyrvas wrote...

I personally don't want to hear any more comments from this person,
according to her we should not get too attached to a plot.

In order to save yourself from depression because said plot isn't completely finished.

We're seeing this in Leviathan.

[FlamingBoy]

I think its a bit of PR line, like the "we're listening"

but you ask some good questions

[McAllyster]

Jessica is a nice girl - but not an avarage fan / customer. She is in the PR/marketing department right now. She's job now is damage control, nothing else. She is the "good cop" now: you can talk to her, she will answer you - but nothing changes.

[Relwyn]

Reth Shepherd wrote...
Could we see yours? You've made more than one statement that you are confident in Bioware's decisions because of the internal data you've collected. Would it be possible for us to see it, too? Right now the only conclusions we can draw are ones based off of the data we have collected. Your statements suggest another data set. Could you show us why you made the conclusions you did?

I don't think they'll ever share their data for one simple reason:
They risk having the community tear them a new one if the community comes to very different conclusions based off of the collected data. And more bad PR (as if they haven't had enough already) is the last thing they need now. 

[Siran]

For anyone interested, here is a podcast from Gamescom where Chris and Jessica talk a bit about their job and go into some details about how they handled the feedback regarding the ME3 endings. Their part begins at the ~9.35min mark.

[Bushido Effect]

Merizan looked like Amy Winehouse a bit at SDCC. Her armor was nice though.

[Hannah Montana]

Her middle name is PR

[SpamBot2000]

I thought it was a cool personal acknowledgment when Ms. Merizan denied being "a spambot".

She shouldn't feel bad, it takes mad skillz.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 19 août 2012 - 12:26 .

[Quintega]

https://twitter.com/JessicaMerizan

[ticklefist]

 I just ran a rule 34 check on Jessica Merizan.

She's not real
 

[Grubas]

ticklefist wrote...

 I just ran a rule 34 check on Jessica Merizan.

She's not real
 

What about Harbinger? if you apply rule 34, is he real?

[Reth Shepherd]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...
*snip*
(P.S. If anyone has a Twitter account, would you mind linking this to her? I really would love a reply!)

Maybe it's because she knows something you don't know...

That hidden variable that brought up similar responses such as; "If you knew what we had planned for Mass Effect 3. You would hold onto your copies forever."

According to the guy who posted that, he meant MP DLC, nothing more. According to every Bioware employee still posting, Levi will not change anything. It will add a few war assets and nothing more. I believe I even saw a quote somewhere, "This again?" They've denied (and rather firmly at that) the IGN statement that Levi would alter things. Trust me, I know how you feel. Even after all this time and pain I don't want to give up that last tiny shred of hope, either. But nothing's going to change. If they had an ace in the hole they would have told us by now. What we have is what we're going to get.

I just read Jess Merizan's Twitter and this came up.
Clay: "From what I gathered in the EC poll, it seems Bioware would be willing to change the ending if people werewilling topay tru?" 
Merizan: "no that's not true. We have done all we are planning to do with the
Extended Cut and are really proud of what we developed for it"
Sorry to burst your bubble of hope.

I don't think all the data they collected is really something they are able to show for obvious reasons. One of them being confidentiality, as it was most likely used for internal presentations and not for public view.

Except that at least some of this data was released for previous games. If they've going to refer to this data they need to show it. It does nothing to say, 'our information contradicts yours' if you can't prove it. They may actually have these numbers, but if we can't verify it it's the same as me saying, 'I have a secret source that says 92% of Synthesis choosers have never played the entire trilogy, but I won't show you my evidence'. Please understand that I am not saying that Merizan is lying! I am merely saying that her statements would have a lot more weight if we could see the data she does; particularly as her data seems to contradict much of the data we've collected.

https://twitter.com/JessicaMerizan

I appreciate the link (and some of her tweets after the AMA are illuminating, to put it mildly), but I don't have a Twitter account and have no plans to create one. (Did anyone else wince when they read the "never get too attached to a plot" line? I have the feeling that one's going to haunt her for a while.)

For anyone interested, here is a podcast from Gamescom where Chris and Jessica talk a bit about their job and go into some details about how they handled the feedback regarding the ME3 endings. Their part begins at the ~9.35min mark.

For anyone else listening to this, the relevant part starts at ~12:50. For anyone who wasn't planning on listening to it, please do so. Several of her statements are well beyond illuminating. Wow. Just...wow.

Come on.  Most of the threads quickly devolve into arguments between a handful of motivated posters.  Of these threads most are threads about telling people who choose certain endings that they are morally
rephrensible and that x ending is the real ending.

Other threads complain about really nitpicky things that don't matter or are already explained ingame/so trivial to explain there is no real need to address the complaint.

Of all the threads on all of BSN there are a few that are well reasoned, well presented, and also level headed and do not devolve into arguments.  Of those threads even fewer work within constraints of real world game development, the boundaries Bioware has clearly set with how far they are willing to go, etc. .  Of those remaining threads, even fewer are not IT related.

At the end of
the day, this means most of the actual 'feedback' on BSN is useless.  Thus, there is a high signal to noise ratio and the valid and truly implementable feedback just gets lost.  

I'm not saying this feedback doesn't exist, or that most people who hate the endings are irrational, but what I am saying is that most people who post on BSN have next to nothing productive to contribute (myself included) and so any real feedback is easily lost in a sea of triviality.

In any situation involving humans, there is going to be a high signal to noise ratio. Some people will go into lots and lots of detail and provide examples and proofs. Others will stick in 2-word comments such as 'it sucks'. You get this no matter what the situation or product is. My point was that ME3 has produced an abnormally high amount of useful feedback. Remember the Child's Play charity? Remember how much money was donated in a handful of days? Not to mention hundreds of polls, including several very detailed and intricate ones (one in particular was promoted by Merizan herself!); hour+ long highly-detailed videos; huge long posts filled with point-by-point analysis; fan-made videos/comics/stories/interactive ending generators that show exactly what people were looking for, and so forth. That is useful information right there, ripe for the picking. If we were able to analyze all of this and gather bullet points from it, why can't Bioware; particularly as they have people they are paying explicitly to filter the signal from the noise?

You mention and dismiss IT and the people arguing about how X ending is morally reprehensible. May I ask why? That is still valuable information. It says that many people are (at the very least) uneasy about the moral implications of what they are being asked to do. It also says that many people are uneasy enough about it that they put a great deal of thought into the choices. How many 5+ paragraph posts have you seen concerning someone's thoughts about Synthesis? More: these are original posts, not copy-pastes, which means that this many people took the time and effort to think it through and reach the conclusions they did. This is important information to Bioware if they wish to avoid this trap in the future. IT says so many people despised the ending as it stood that they were desperate enough to create an alternate interpretation using the available facts! At its peak, polls were running ~60% or higher for IT belief. This should have been Bioware's red flag as to how bad things were.