182 réponses à ce sujet

[Peranor]

chemiclord wrote...

anorling wrote...

That's the Bioware way of doing it. When people complain on something they completely remove it instead of improving upon it. And then when people say they miss the Mako some smartass has to pop in and try to act clever by posting a comment saying something like "But it was you, the fans, who complained and thus wanted it removed. Why do you say Bioware never listen to you when they clearly do herp derp".

Because it's true.

You don't like it?  Stop ****ing like every minor issue is a game breaking flaw.  Fans carry their own responsibility for how this turned out.  When the question why it became this... they can start by looking in the mirror.

Thank you for proving my point.

Modifié par anorling, 19 août 2012 - 06:42 .

[Jadebaby]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...
*snip*
(P.S. If anyone has a Twitter account, would you mind linking this to her? I really would love a reply!)

Maybe it's because she knows something you don't know...

That hidden variable that brought up similar responses such as; "If you knew what we had planned for Mass Effect 3. You would hold onto your copies forever."

According to the guy who posted that, he meant MP DLC, nothing more.

What? It was Mike Gamble.. Not just 'some guy" and I HIGHLY doubt he was talking about MP dlc. It was a couple of days after the ME3 release. He knew why people were upset, and it wasn't because the MP was sub-par.

[chemiclord]

anorling wrote...

Thank you for proving my point

I'm sorry you hate the truth then?

Fans ****ed, Bioware caved.  On a good many things.

And they HAVE tried to tweak rather than cut.  Remember the Hammerhead?  That's because people did like how the Mako handled.  That mining mini-game in ME2?  That was people fans wanted something more engaging than a simple click and scan.  The hacking and override mini-games?  People thought omni-gel was silly and wanted something more interactive.

End result?  Fans generally hated all those tweaks MORE than the originals.

You can hate it all you want... but it's also very painfully true.

[AresKeith]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...
*snip*
(P.S. If anyone has a Twitter account, would you mind linking this to her? I really would love a reply!)

Maybe it's because she knows something you don't know...

That hidden variable that brought up similar responses such as; "If you knew what we had planned for Mass Effect 3. You would hold onto your copies forever."

According to the guy who posted that, he meant MP DLC, nothing more.

What? It was Mike Gamble.. Not just 'some guy" and I HIGHLY doubt he was talking about MP dlc. It was a couple of days after the ME3 release. He knew why people were upset, and it wasn't because the MP was sub-par.

the MP was wasted potential, that could have been on a second disc instead of jammed into one 

[Peranor]

chemiclord wrote...

anorling wrote...

Thank you for proving my point

I'm sorry you hate the truth then?

Fans ****ed, Bioware caved.  On a good many things.

And they HAVE tried to tweak rather than cut.  Remember the Hammerhead?  That's because people did like how the Mako handled.  That mining mini-game in ME2?  That was people fans wanted something more engaging than a simple click and scan.  The hacking and override mini-games?  People thought omni-gel was silly and wanted something more interactive.

End result?  Fans generally hated all those tweaks MORE than the originals.

You can hate it all you want... but it's also very painfully true.

Sayng that the Mako handles badly and that they don't like mountanclimbing on large barren planets does not equal saying "we want you to remove the whole concept of planetary exploration".
If Bioware chose to interpret it that way then I can undertand why things are going downhill...
But it's NOT the fans fault that Bioware has a problem listening to feedback. Or even reading...

[Cainne Chapel]

Ares there were two discs for 360 anyway... But whyw ould it need a second disk when its using assets from the normal game, outside of a few powers its not like there's ANYTHING in the MP thats not present in the SP aside from a few character models

But, the problem with the BSN in regards to being a community manager, is that no one agrees on anything and most of the time posts breakdown into tiresome arguments over opinion and not fact. Bottom line is Bioware does what most companies do, weigh fan responses and go with the plan that will pelase the MOST people. They obviously and shouldnt take EVERYONEs opinions as gospel, but they can use them as a good indicator. Problem is most people on forums tend to B*tch about everything and nothing so you must wade through alot of crap to get to the gems,

i mean look no further then the general attitude of the BSN, when ME2 came out, OMG its horrible, then when ME3 comes out,s uddenly ME2 is a bastion of all that was well and good in the series and ME3 is the new thing to hate.

It can get really silly here, anyone who has been ehre long enough knows that.

[Love Sherri]

Siran wrote...

For anyone interested, here is a podcast from Gamescom where Chris and Jessica talk a bit about their job and go into some details about how they handled the feedback regarding the ME3 endings. Their part begins at the ~9.35min mark.

Wow.  The part where she talks about the "online" people and their feelings, basically attributing any feeback from the online community to nothing short of trolls.  Blows my mind.  

They really are out of touch with the fan base.  Online users = minority.

Modifié par Love Sherri, 19 août 2012 - 06:49 .

[chemiclord]

anorling wrote...

Sayng that the Mako handles badly and that they don't like mountanclimbing on large barren planets does not equal saying "we want you to remove the whole concept of planetary exploration".
If Bioware chose to interpret it that way then I can undertand why things are going downhill...
But it's NOT the fans fault that Bioware has a problem listening to feedback. Or even reading...

It's not the fan's "fault", no.  At the end of the day, Bioware makes the decisions.

But the fan feedback (as outright incendiary as it usually is) had it's impact.  The BSN has generally responded to every minor detail with vitriolic rage that was often well beyond what the issue deserved.  When the feedback you are getting is on the "I'M ANGRY AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANY MORE" level, the company receiving that feedback generally isn't going to think, "If we just tweak it, it'll be okay."

Harbinger is a great example of this.  The feedback on him was nothing short of outright despisal and loathing; when really the only thing he needed was more treatment like he got in Arrival.  But the response was so incendiary and venomous that I'm not sure what other response we should have expected from Bioware.

It would have been GREAT if Bioware was better at sowing the wheat from the chaff (because in the spirit of total honestly, it's not like ME fans are somehow worse or more douchey than any other given fandom of anything), but it should have been pretty damn clear they weren't after ME2.

Modifié par chemiclord, 19 août 2012 - 06:51 .

[barbara2012]

TK Dude wrote...

Yeah.... I'm not going to bother with this. I'm done with Bioware PR BS, they act like goddamn man-children.

!00 % agreed wtih you here.
This "lady" think that PR work is = lie, manipulate and behave like children with the  customers....

[Cainne Chapel]

why the sudden hate for PR... everyone does know what the business of PR is right?

Thats like getting mad at a business for selling you something for more than they pay for it...I have a hard time getting mad at PR when I dont pay attention to it, knowing what marketing is and all

[chemiclord]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

why the sudden hate for PR... everyone does know what the business of PR is right?

Thats like getting mad at a business for selling you something for more than they pay for it...I have a hard time getting mad at PR when I dont pay attention to it, knowing what marketing is and all

It's for the same reason people go into a ball of spite and rage at the call center worker who answers their call.

When you are angry and bitter and pissed off, you tend to lash out at the first or most visible person among the party that you think wronged you.  PR people, tech support, call center... they tend to be at the front line of the fray, and thus get most of the **** thrown a company's way.

Modifié par chemiclord, 19 août 2012 - 07:00 .

[AresKeith]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Ares there were two discs for 360 anyway... But whyw ould it need a second disk when its using assets from the normal game, outside of a few powers its not like there's ANYTHING in the MP thats not present in the SP aside from a few character models

But, the problem with the BSN in regards to being a community manager, is that no one agrees on anything and most of the time posts breakdown into tiresome arguments over opinion and not fact. Bottom line is Bioware does what most companies do, weigh fan responses and go with the plan that will pelase the MOST people. They obviously and shouldnt take EVERYONEs opinions as gospel, but they can use them as a good indicator. Problem is most people on forums tend to B*tch about everything and nothing so you must wade through alot of crap to get to the gems,

i mean look no further then the general attitude of the BSN, when ME2 came out, OMG its horrible, then when ME3 comes out,s uddenly ME2 is a bastion of all that was well and good in the series and ME3 is the new thing to hate.

It can get really silly here, anyone who has been ehre long enough knows that.

I meant one disc for the SP and another for the MP

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...
It would have been GREAT if Bioware was better at sowing the wheat from the chaff (because in the spirit of total honestly, it's not like ME fans are somehow worse or more douchey than any other given fandom of anything), but it should have been pretty damn clear they weren't after ME2.

Better?  I'm not convinced they even tried.

I saw virtually no effort to find out why people were so upset about the ending.  There was, what a stickied thread where people could post stuff?  That was it.  Unless there was something on Facebook or Twitter that I missed.  The only surveys I saw were fan-made (and were pretty much dismissed by Bioware as "not accurate")

If Bioware's going to rely solely on posted opinions, of course there's going to be a lot of "signal to noise" issues.  Unfortunately, I saw only one Bioware empluyee here actively trying to find out what people thought, asking questions with the intention of getting clearer answers.  And he was on the Dragon Age team simply posting here as a fan.

I mean, how long did it take them to realize the reason people missed the elevators wasn't so much because they hated loading screens, but because they missed the companion banter?  No wonder they only took care of the most obvious issues with the endings, the death of the galaxy and all.  They simply didn't look any deeper.

[killdozer9211]

 Jessica was probably politely complaining that out of a sample of 100 posts from BSn, this is what came up:

39 "I hate bioware, everything they've ever done, and their friends and family as well. You should too, and if you disagree, you're included in the hate! That'll show you to sell me a 60 dollar game I preordered without knowing anything about it but developer promises and paid corporate reviews that are used as selling tools by the industry instead of being partial, unbiased reviews!"
31 "X Ending sucks, Y ending was what I chose because it only halfway sucks".
16: "HAY! MAEK MAI DLC I THOUGHT OF, IT'S TOTALLY A GOOD IDEIA!!"
8: "Give me more time with my love interest/favorite character! They're all I have in life! Oh, but none of the other people on forum's, just  mine."
1 "We made our own bad ending to show how bad your suck at your jobs bioware! Umad?" with over 1000 pages.
3 Complaining about complaining by apologists that quickly dissolve into the internet equivolent of endless 'yo mama' chains, doomed to forever repeat themselves until that fateful day xibit decides to copyright his face.
1 "Playing this video game instead of studying from a textbook didn't increase my knowledge of astrophysics in time for my doctoral exam, way to freaking go in the realistic science department, BW!"
1 "Marauder shields now on Facebook, twitter, and tumblr!"


What she's trying to say is, they want to hear less about how much they let us down and our arbitrary expectations on how they can make it up to us, and more about how much people hated elevators, airlocks, planetary exploration, not reloading, and biotics that weren't stupid purple projectiles you shot out of your palms like a bad anime so they can make us a really good sequel, with more explosions, knife kills, fetch quests and less being stuck in conversations with like, 9000 options that each are a whole paragraph of dialogue long.

Oh, wait...

[The Twilight God]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

tyrvas wrote...

I personally don't want to hear any more comments from this person,
according to her we should not get too attached to a plot.

In order to save yourself from depression because said plot isn't completely finished.

We're seeing this in Leviathan.

So they intentionally released an incomplete game for the purpose of nickle & diming us to get the complete story?

That's supposed to make me want to give them my money?

[Reth Shepherd]

@Jade8aby88: more bad news, I'm afraid. "Jessica pretty much said the endings we have are 100% final and if we think anything will be added to the endings after the final choice then we have misunderstood things." http://social.biowar...17/459#13734614

Oh, and NO one has a Twit account around here, or is willing to use it to link to the questions? :-(

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

@ Jess Merizan

Please stop using Twitter

[loungeshep]

Merizan rocks. And she rocks the archeology. I think she does a great job putting up with whiney fans. Community Manager is almost a tougher job that daycare manager.

[3DandBeyond]

Siran wrote...

I think she meant that she improves the way they collect feedback and channel it in a way it can be used to help them make Games that people like. We know she did handle the feedback collection for the EC and that ended up taking up suggestions from the community, so I guess this is the best example for her statement. And having met her at Gamescom I honestly believe that this is not just "PR" talk but something she will continue to do for upcoming games and DLCs.

I don't think all the data they collected is really something they are able to show for obvious reasons. One of them being confidentiality, as it was most likely used for internal presentations and not for public view.

BTW - it might be hard getting a swift answer since she's still in Germany and might not have the time to reply at once.

I'm sorry but your statement that she handled feedback for the EC-do you mean she handled feedback that was used in creating the EC?  If so, then everything is much clearer now.  She may be a heck of a nice person but she is the last person I would use to collect and disseminate feedback.  She has changed her opinion on so many things on twitter it isn't even funny.  If this is the tip of the spear BW is using to try and gain community understanding, then they are in trouble. 

For one thing, I think it's fine for people to use twitter if they like to and reddit and so on, but these people never discuss anything on their own network.  It's a real joke.  And I can honestly say this is the first time I've experienced such a thing.  I've modded for other forums and used some to discuss products (not games) I like or problems with some things I've gotten, and for the most part, someone representing the company will chime in and answer questions directly.  They don't go on twitter, on what should be their personal accounts and talk about their hair color and beer they had in Germany and then discuss their product and even antagonize fans there.

What I'm getting at is that she can tweet from anywhere, so where she is has nothing to do with it.

[3DandBeyond]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

@Jade8aby88: more bad news, I'm afraid. "Jessica pretty much said the endings we have are 100% final and if we think anything will be added to the endings after the final choice then we have misunderstood things." http://social.biowar...17/459#13734614

Oh, and NO one has a Twit account around here, or is willing to use it to link to the questions? :-(

But see you hit the problem right on the head here-she isn't believable because what she says changes based on who she's talking to.  I believe this on some level because they keep saying it, but they say a lot of contradictory stuff too.  And it does boil down to this:  if that is true, then they may well have sunk themselves.  The list of disappointments from fans doesn't just include ME3, but KOTOR, DA, SWTOR, and so on.  If it was one thing, then ok, but since they may well have abandoned Shepard and didn't feel the character worthy of a decent ending and they appear to be shifting ME to a CoD clone that in some ways is not even as good (I don't mind buying map packs, but I will not pay for micro transactions), then they have decided to dumb down and ruin what clearly was one of the most innovative and immersive games I and many others have played.  If they've determined for them that the EC was enough, then for me enough is enough.  No more Bioware games for me and even EA purchases I had in mind will be dumped off my wish lists.

[clarkusdarkus]

a bioware employee lying and disregarding there fanbase.......who would have thought it.

There was countless pages on there " endings feedback yes we are listening " thread but none of it was used or even acknowledged by them

They want your money not questions, just dont fall for there lies again, quite simple really, how anyone thinks bioware are good anymore after DA2/TOR/ME3 is living in the past, there smug,mediocre,snidey and damn right dellusional nowadays and one or two narcasists are amongst them.......i blame the EA influence on them.

[gorezeelar]

killdozer9211 wrote...

 Jessica was probably politely complaining that out of a sample of 100 posts from BSn, this is what came up:

39 "I hate bioware, everything they've ever done, and their friends and family as well. You should too, and if you disagree, you're included in the hate! That'll show you to sell me a 60 dollar game I preordered without knowing anything about it but developer promises and paid corporate reviews that are used as selling tools by the industry instead of being partial, unbiased reviews!"
31 "X Ending sucks, Y ending was what I chose because it only halfway sucks".
16: "HAY! MAEK MAI DLC I THOUGHT OF, IT'S TOTALLY A GOOD IDEIA!!"
8: "Give me more time with my love interest/favorite character! They're all I have in life! Oh, but none of the other people on forum's, just  mine."
1 "We made our own bad ending to show how bad your suck at your jobs bioware! Umad?" with over 1000 pages.
3 Complaining about complaining by apologists that quickly dissolve into the internet equivolent of endless 'yo mama' chains, doomed to forever repeat themselves until that fateful day xibit decides to copyright his face.
1 "Playing this video game instead of studying from a textbook didn't increase my knowledge of astrophysics in time for my doctoral exam, way to freaking go in the realistic science department, BW!"
1 "Marauder shields now on Facebook, twitter, and tumblr!"


What she's trying to say is, they want to hear less about how much they let us down and our arbitrary expectations on how they can make it up to us, and more about how much people hated elevators, airlocks, planetary exploration, not reloading, and biotics that weren't stupid purple projectiles you shot out of your palms like a bad anime so they can make us a really good sequel, with more explosions, knife kills, fetch quests and less being stuck in conversations with like, 9000 options that each are a whole paragraph of dialogue long.

Oh, wait...

Who's fault is that, making a bad game?

ME3 did not need multiplayer. That would have save them an entire department of MP complain and SP quality. 

BW went too wrong and way too deep with ME3. Just make a straight forward ending, games with lots of choices, ACTUAL RPG elements(explorations, customizations, upgrade) and good gameplay (for example, MASS EFFECT 2 FOR CHRIST'S SAKE). Then top that off with good DLCs and we'll happily pay for them.  

Instead, BW was influenced by money to made from bad choices to bad choices. 


PLEASE LISTEN TO US THIS TIME BEFORE YOU TOUCH DRAGON AGE 3. AND PLEASE DON'T LET EA EXECUTIVES PUT THEIR FILTHY PAWS ON DA3. MAKE DRAGON AGE 3 A SATISFYING ROLE PLAYING GAME, THEN YOU HAVE FINALLY REDEEMED YOURSELF.

Modifié par gorezeelar, 21 août 2012 - 07:17 .

[Soultaker08]

gorezeelar wrote...

killdozer9211 wrote...

 Jessica was probably politely complaining that out of a sample of 100 posts from BSn, this is what came up:

39 "I hate bioware, everything they've ever done, and their friends and family as well. You should too, and if you disagree, you're included in the hate! That'll show you to sell me a 60 dollar game I preordered without knowing anything about it but developer promises and paid corporate reviews that are used as selling tools by the industry instead of being partial, unbiased reviews!"
31 "X Ending sucks, Y ending was what I chose because it only halfway sucks".
16: "HAY! MAEK MAI DLC I THOUGHT OF, IT'S TOTALLY A GOOD IDEIA!!"
8: "Give me more time with my love interest/favorite character! They're all I have in life! Oh, but none of the other people on forum's, just  mine."
1 "We made our own bad ending to show how bad your suck at your jobs bioware! Umad?" with over 1000 pages.
3 Complaining about complaining by apologists that quickly dissolve into the internet equivolent of endless 'yo mama' chains, doomed to forever repeat themselves until that fateful day xibit decides to copyright his face.
1 "Playing this video game instead of studying from a textbook didn't increase my knowledge of astrophysics in time for my doctoral exam, way to freaking go in the realistic science department, BW!"
1 "Marauder shields now on Facebook, twitter, and tumblr!"


What she's trying to say is, they want to hear less about how much they let us down and our arbitrary expectations on how they can make it up to us, and more about how much people hated elevators, airlocks, planetary exploration, not reloading, and biotics that weren't stupid purple projectiles you shot out of your palms like a bad anime so they can make us a really good sequel, with more explosions, knife kills, fetch quests and less being stuck in conversations with like, 9000 options that each are a whole paragraph of dialogue long.

Oh, wait...

Who's fault is that, making a bad game?

ME3 did not need multiplayer. That would have save them an entire department of MP complain and SP quality. 

BW went too wrong and way too deep with ME3. Just make a straight forward ending, games with lots of choices, ACTUAL RPG elements(explorations, customizations, upgrade) and good gameplay (for example, MASS EFFECT 2 FOR CHRIST'S SAKE). Then top that off with good DLCs and we'll happily pay for them.  

Instead, BW was influenced by money to made from bad choices to bad choices. 


PLEASE LISTEN TO US THIS TIME BEFORE YOU TOUCH DRAGON AGE 3. AND PLEASE DON'T LET EA EXECUTIVES PUT THEIR FILTHY PAWS ON DA3. MAKE DRAGON AGE 3 A SATISFYING ROLE PLAYING GAME, THEN YOU HAVE FINALLY REDEEMED YOURSELF.

i cant believe you really posted this as an answer to what killdozer wrote, do you read his examples and what he is talking about <_<

[gorezeelar]

Soultaker08 wrote...

gorezeelar wrote...

killdozer9211 wrote...

 Jessica was probably politely complaining that out of a sample of 100 posts from BSn, this is what came up:

39 "I hate bioware, everything they've ever done, and their friends and family as well. You should too, and if you disagree, you're included in the hate! That'll show you to sell me a 60 dollar game I preordered without knowing anything about it but developer promises and paid corporate reviews that are used as selling tools by the industry instead of being partial, unbiased reviews!"
31 "X Ending sucks, Y ending was what I chose because it only halfway sucks".
16: "HAY! MAEK MAI DLC I THOUGHT OF, IT'S TOTALLY A GOOD IDEIA!!"
8: "Give me more time with my love interest/favorite character! They're all I have in life! Oh, but none of the other people on forum's, just  mine."
1 "We made our own bad ending to show how bad your suck at your jobs bioware! Umad?" with over 1000 pages.
3 Complaining about complaining by apologists that quickly dissolve into the internet equivolent of endless 'yo mama' chains, doomed to forever repeat themselves until that fateful day xibit decides to copyright his face.
1 "Playing this video game instead of studying from a textbook didn't increase my knowledge of astrophysics in time for my doctoral exam, way to freaking go in the realistic science department, BW!"
1 "Marauder shields now on Facebook, twitter, and tumblr!"


What she's trying to say is, they want to hear less about how much they let us down and our arbitrary expectations on how they can make it up to us, and more about how much people hated elevators, airlocks, planetary exploration, not reloading, and biotics that weren't stupid purple projectiles you shot out of your palms like a bad anime so they can make us a really good sequel, with more explosions, knife kills, fetch quests and less being stuck in conversations with like, 9000 options that each are a whole paragraph of dialogue long.

Oh, wait...

Who's fault is that, making a bad game?

ME3 did not need multiplayer. That would have save them an entire department of MP complain and SP quality. 

BW went too wrong and way too deep with ME3. Just make a straight forward ending, games with lots of choices, ACTUAL RPG elements(explorations, customizations, upgrade) and good gameplay (for example, MASS EFFECT 2 FOR CHRIST'S SAKE). Then top that off with good DLCs and we'll happily pay for them.  

Instead, BW was influenced by money to made from bad choices to bad choices. 


PLEASE LISTEN TO US THIS TIME BEFORE YOU TOUCH DRAGON AGE 3. AND PLEASE DON'T LET EA EXECUTIVES PUT THEIR FILTHY PAWS ON DA3. MAKE DRAGON AGE 3 A SATISFYING ROLE PLAYING GAME, THEN YOU HAVE FINALLY REDEEMED YOURSELF.

i cant believe you really posted this as an answer to what killdozer wrote, do you read his examples and what he is talking about <_<

Okay...Okay...But I still made my point

[RiouHotaru]

Uhhh...having MP did not influence the development of SP, that myth needs to go away already.

Also, Mass Effect 3 did have actual RPG elements save exploration (which was utterly pointless and boring in ME1) and had good gameplay. And so far the DLC has been free MP expansions and the EC, with Leviathan just around the corner. So far it's looking pretty darn nice.