182 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Damn that was painful. They still don't get it. After all this time, and all these posts, all these fictional endings we've made that are better (none of which have blue babies), they still don't get it.

I give up.

No, people did in fact demand a reunion and blue babies. I think there was even an entire topic about the subject.

No, they didn't demand anything of the sort.  They did wish for it and ask for it and so on.  But basically what a lot of people merely wanted was some clarity that Shepard was alive and that Shepard and teammates each knew the other was alive.

What a lot of people have talked about was a desire beyond that, but the above sort of thing was the minimum they wished for.  Considering some of the fluff they added in to the whole game and even the dead Shepard endings (with skin flying off and all), one scene showing a reunion would have been nice and truly would have been accepted by most. 

Beyond that people begged for reunion DLC that they would pay for.  And they said what they'd like to see.  Don't confuse demand with asking.  People are not always so nuanced in the way they ask for things and another complaint I have about the podcast is the Jessica Merizan and others here really do seem to lump everyone into one category.

Yep they quite willingly shed all pretense at ambiguity for dead shep endings but apparently live Shep isn't even worthy any sort of expansion in their minds.

[KENNY4753]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Maybe Bioware isn't smart enough to realize what's wrong with the endings. I'm slowly beginning to come to this conclusion.

No they know what's wrong with them they just don't give a f*** anymore. Unfortunate but true

Modifié par KENNY4753, 21 août 2012 - 09:35 .

[Versus Omnibus]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Damn that was painful. They still don't get it. After all this time, and all these posts, all these fictional endings we've made that are better (none of which have blue babies), they still don't get it.

I give up.

No, people did in fact demand a reunion and blue babies. I think there was even an entire topic about the subject.

No, they didn't demand anything of the sort.  They did wish for it and ask for it and so on.  But basically what a lot of people merely wanted was some clarity that Shepard was alive and that Shepard and teammates each knew the other was alive.

So they did demand it, but also never asked for it...?

Look, she used the blue babies as an example of what people wanted in different endings. Not that was solely the only thing they wanted.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Maybe Bioware isn't smart enough to realize what's wrong with the endings. I'm slowly beginning to come to this conclusion.

No. There's a river flowing through Egypt with the name, and it runs deep in Edmonton. The winters are long and the summers short. I can imagine it is a pretty depressing place to live. Hell, I live in Seattle, and the winters here can wear on you. I put special lighting in the house and take vitamin D supplements during the winter. Edmonton is about 550 miles north in latitude eyeballing on the map.

[ld1449]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Maybe Bioware isn't smart enough to realize what's wrong with the endings. I'm slowly beginning to come to this conclusion.

No. There's a river flowing through Egypt with the name, and it runs deep in Edmonton. The winters are long and the summers short. I can imagine it is a pretty depressing place to live. Hell, I live in Seattle, and the winters here can wear on you. I put special lighting in the house and take vitamin D supplements during the winter. Edmonton is about 550 miles north in latitude eyeballing on the map.

Uhhhhh...Winter is coming?

Needless to say you completely ****ing lost me.

[Conniving_Eagle]

But it's summer...

[3DandBeyond]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Damn that was painful. They still don't get it. After all this time, and all these posts, all these fictional endings we've made that are better (none of which have blue babies), they still don't get it.

I give up.

No, people did in fact demand a reunion and blue babies. I think there was even an entire topic about the subject.

No, they didn't demand anything of the sort.  They did wish for it and ask for it and so on.  But basically what a lot of people merely wanted was some clarity that Shepard was alive and that Shepard and teammates each knew the other was alive.

So they did demand it, but also never asked for it...?

Look, she used the blue babies as an example of what people wanted in different endings. Not that was solely the only thing they wanted.

I don't wish to have appear like I think I know more than you (I don't assume this is true), but demanding and asking are 2 different things.  People ask for things all the time-are you always demanding things when you ask for something?

Demanding something suggests you are coming from some place of "authority" in that you have the right to something-it's just short of a command.  Asking for things is really just putting a wish into the form of a request.  That's not demanding.  The implication is that people were only ever demanding when even saying they'd pay for it-that is asking.

So, where'd I say that she was doing anything other than giving an example?  I took exception to the idea that people were demanding things all over the place.  I merely was pointing out that they really just wanted at the minimum one reunion scene.  What JM said after a lot of other stuff had been said about this, was that BW could not customize a reunion for everyone.  And she kind of repeats that in the podcast.  Why was it possible then to customize a memorial wall scene.  And really does it take too much work and imagination to merely substitute part of that for a hospital bed scene with basically the same scene as the wall but with the appropriate LI in place?  That would have been very easy to do. 

BW stepped in this all kinds of ways-JM said there would be a reunion and then she said it was implied, then she said she never said what she did say.  I read it and others had copies of it saved.  Then BW devs said they never knew people wanted one, then they said the gasping torso was a beacon of hope or Shepard's dying gasp.  Then, JM said BW couldn't make a customized reunion scene and then she said the ending was left ambiguous on purpose.  Are we having fun yet?

So when people ask for things or did ask for things, most of what comes out is frustration.  BW is a company that can't get their story straight on any issue.  Mass relays destroy the galaxy, but they never meant for them to-except they did.  MP required for SP-no, it's not needed, except it was.  And each of these is a long tail of how they couldn't just come out with the truth and talk to fans.  No, twitter, and reddit, and IGN and so on, that's for talking to fans or talking about them.  The BSN-I have no idea why they created it or what it's for.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 21 août 2012 - 11:46 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

ld1449 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Maybe Bioware isn't smart enough to realize what's wrong with the endings. I'm slowly beginning to come to this conclusion.

No. There's a river flowing through Egypt with the name, and it runs deep in Edmonton. The winters are long and the summers short. I can imagine it is a pretty depressing place to live. Hell, I live in Seattle, and the winters here can wear on you. I put special lighting in the house and take vitamin D supplements during the winter. Edmonton is about 550 miles north in latitude eyeballing on the map.

Uhhhhh...Winter is coming?

Needless to say you completely ****ing lost me.

The sun has begun its annual retreat from the far reaches of the north. Edmonton is pretty far north. This amounts to about 6 hrs of daylight in December which isn't very much. Imagine the sun rising at around 9 am and setting around 3 pm. Sad, but true. I may be exaggerating a little, maybe 30 minutes each way. That's not much.

It gets depressing. It leads to dark depressing themes in stories. Nothing happy comes out of it. Where does death metal come from? It's not a sunny warm climate. I think this is what has happened to BioWare. They need warm sunny places. Not cold dark snow and ice.

So I'm saying they're in denial about what is wrong with the endings, and that they are too depressed to care.

[ld1449]

3DandBeyond wrote...


I don't wish to have appear like I think I know more than you (I don't assume this is true), but demanding and asking are 2 different things.  People ask for things all the time-are you always demanding things when you ask for something?

Demanding something suggests you are coming from some place of "authority" in that you have the right to something-it's just short of a command.  Asking for things is really just putting a wish into the form of a request.  That's not demanding.  The implication is that people were only ever demanding when even saying they'd pay for it-that is asking.

So, where'd I say that she was doing anything other than giving an example?  I took exception to the idea that people were demanding things all over the place.  I merely was pointing out that they really just wanted at the minimum one reunion scene.  What JM said after a lot of other stuff had been said about this, was that BW could not customize a reunion for everyone.  And she kind of repeats that in the podcast.  Why was it possible then to customize a memorial wall scene.  And really does it take too much work and imagination to merely substitute part of that for a hospital bed scene with basically the same scene as the wall but with the appropriate LI in place?  That would have been very easy to do. 

BW stepped in this all kinds of ways-JM said there would be a reunion and then she said it was implied, then she said she never said what she did say.  I read it and others had copies of it saved.  Then BW devs said they never knew people wanted one, then they said the gasping torso was a beacon of hope or Shepard's dying gasp.  Then, JM said BW couldn't make a customized reunion scene and then she said the ending was left ambiguous on purpose.  Are we having fun yet?

So when people ask for things or did ask for things, most of what comes out is frustration.  BW is a company that can't get their story straight on any issue.  Mass relays destroy the galaxy, but they never meant for them too-except they did.  MP required for SP-no, it's not needed, except it was.  And each of these is a long tail of how they couldn't just come out with the truth and talk to fans.  No, twitter, and reddit, and IGN and so on, that's for talking to fans or talking about them.  The BSN-I have no idea why they created it or what it's for.

QFFT

[sparkyo42]

tyrvas wrote...

I personally don't want to hear any more comments from this person,
according to her we should not get too attached to a plot.

Forgive me but I don't follow twitter and the last podcast from Bioware that I listened to made me want to break something but did she actually say this. I mean really straight up say that we shouldn't get to attached to plot in an RPG.

I just don't know where to go with that.

[The Spamming Troll]

i dont expect bioware employees to know what they are doing.

kindof like walmart employees.

the walmart of the gaming industry!

[Reth Shepherd]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i dont expect bioware employees to know what they are doing.

kindof like walmart employees.

the walmart of the gaming industry!

Hey! Speaking as a Walmart associate, don't lump us into the same category as Bioware! WE have been known to make fixes when customers get ticked off!

Oh, and Sparkyo42? The exact quote was. "We know that's what you hoped to see, but sometimes we have other ideas we want to explore - never get to attached to a plot...", in response to someone asking on Twitter why Harbinger was effectively a no-show in ME3. So yeah, tiny little things like the villian of the middle game, the guy who's been set up to have an even larger role in ME3...don't get too attached to minor things like that. *bitter* Guess I shouldn't have gotten too attached to other things, either, like Legion's ME2 characterization. Seriously, how does one go from "Geth build our own future. The heretics asked the Old Machines to give them the future. They are no longer part of us." and 'If Shepard chooses to destroy the Collector base, Legion calls it an interesting choice, saying humanity was offered everything geth aspire to - unity, understanding and transcendence. Legion adds that Shepard even rejected using the Reapers' technology to achieve victory on humanity's own terms, and comments that the Commander is more like the geth than Legion initially thought' to 'integrating Reaper tech is teh futorz!'?

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 22 août 2012 - 05:34 .

[NPH11]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The sun has begun its annual retreat from the far reaches of the north. Edmonton is pretty far north. This amounts to about 6 hrs of daylight in December which isn't very much. Imagine the sun rising at around 9 am and setting around 3 pm. Sad, but true. I may be exaggerating a little, maybe 30 minutes each way. That's not much.

It gets depressing. It leads to dark depressing themes in stories. Nothing happy comes out of it. Where does death metal come from? It's not a sunny warm climate. I think this is what has happened to BioWare. They need warm sunny places. Not cold dark snow and ice.

So I'm saying they're in denial about what is wrong with the endings, and that they are too depressed to care.

I'd be pretty depressed if I had to live in Edmonton too 

But hey, without Edmonton they would never have had the inspiration for Noveria

[LadieGamer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Maybe Bioware isn't smart enough to realize what's wrong with the endings. I'm slowly beginning to come to this conclusion.

No. There's a river flowing through Egypt with the name, and it runs deep in Edmonton. The winters are long and the summers short. I can imagine it is a pretty depressing place to live. Hell, I live in Seattle, and the winters here can wear on you. I put special lighting in the house and take vitamin D supplements during the winter. Edmonton is about 550 miles north in latitude eyeballing on the map.

Uhhhhh...Winter is coming?

Needless to say you completely ****ing lost me.

The sun has begun its annual retreat from the far reaches of the north. Edmonton is pretty far north. This amounts to about 6 hrs of daylight in December which isn't very much. Imagine the sun rising at around 9 am and setting around 3 pm. Sad, but true. I may be exaggerating a little, maybe 30 minutes each way. That's not much.

It gets depressing. It leads to dark depressing themes in stories. Nothing happy comes out of it. Where does death metal come from? It's not a sunny warm climate. I think this is what has happened to BioWare. They need warm sunny places. Not cold dark snow and ice.

So I'm saying they're in denial about what is wrong with the endings, and that they are too depressed to care.

As a Canadian your ignorance makes me laugh. Edmonton is a beautiful and amazing city. I could turn around and bash Seattle. I mean all that rain wanna talk about miserable, it's where grunge started, it don't get no whinier and b****er than that...well maybe emo rock. Google map Alberta you will see Edmonton is not even in the middle of the province.  You have every right to say what you want about a city you've been too but until then...keep your ignorance to yourself.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

LadieGamer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Maybe Bioware isn't smart enough to realize what's wrong with the endings. I'm slowly beginning to come to this conclusion.

No. There's a river flowing through Egypt with the name, and it runs deep in Edmonton. The winters are long and the summers short. I can imagine it is a pretty depressing place to live. Hell, I live in Seattle, and the winters here can wear on you. I put special lighting in the house and take vitamin D supplements during the winter. Edmonton is about 550 miles north in latitude eyeballing on the map.

Uhhhhh...Winter is coming?

Needless to say you completely ****ing lost me.

The sun has begun its annual retreat from the far reaches of the north. Edmonton is pretty far north. This amounts to about 6 hrs of daylight in December which isn't very much. Imagine the sun rising at around 9 am and setting around 3 pm. Sad, but true. I may be exaggerating a little, maybe 30 minutes each way. That's not much.

It gets depressing. It leads to dark depressing themes in stories. Nothing happy comes out of it. Where does death metal come from? It's not a sunny warm climate. I think this is what has happened to BioWare. They need warm sunny places. Not cold dark snow and ice.

So I'm saying they're in denial about what is wrong with the endings, and that they are too depressed to care.

As a Canadian your ignorance makes me laugh. Edmonton is a beautiful and amazing city. I could turn around and bash Seattle. I mean all that rain wanna talk about miserable, it's where grunge started, it don't get no whinier and b****er than that...well maybe emo rock. Google map Alberta you will see Edmonton is not even in the middle of the province.  You have every right to say what you want about a city you've been too but until then...keep your ignorance to yourself.

You could bash Seattle and you'd get no argument from me. Where did the Grunge music originate in the 1990s? Seattle. It rains all the time. I have to put special lighting in my house in the winter. It can be damned depressing here. 47.37 north lattitude. When you compare December sun (if you see it) to San Francisco December sun at noon, the elevation of the sun is like that in San Francisco at around 3 pm. Ouch.

Don't tell me my geography is off though.

The Google map shows it RIGHT HERE and I'd call that pretty close to the middle of the province around the 53.32 north lattitude. Calgary is in the southern end of the province.

[Isichar]

Edmonton is a dark and dreary city filled with bums and depression. I swear its always grey anytime I am in the city.

Then again I actually live in Calgary and we have always had something of a rivalry going on between us and Edmonton. I seriously dont know one person who does not hate Edmonton...

Modifié par Isichar, 22 août 2012 - 08:33 .

[Siran]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I'm sorry but your statement that she handled feedback for the EC-do you mean she handled feedback that was used in creating the EC? 

She did and has said so many times. The Feedback was collected over all networks, be it BSN (you know, they made a really long Feedback post exactly for that), Twitter, other forums (like Hold the Line) etc.

She may be a heck of a nice person but she is the last person I would use to collect and disseminate feedback.  She has changed her opinion on so many things on twitter it isn't even funny.  If this is the tip of the spear BW is using to try and gain community understanding, then they are in trouble.

Pretty much your opinion. I for one think she is a competent and even more dedicated person, especially after meeting her and Chris in person at Gamescom. Plus, you can be quite certain, that there were more persons involved in the process of anaylising feedback and the EC in general.

For one thing, I think it's fine for people to use twitter if they like to and reddit and so on, but these people never discuss anything on their own network.  It's a real joke.  And I can honestly say this is the first time I've experienced such a thing.  I've modded for other forums and used some to discuss products (not games) I like or problems with some things I've gotten, and for the most part, someone representing the company will chime in and answer questions directly.

They are discussing things here, too - it's even indicated next to a thread by a big BioWare logo. Just because they don't discuss your topics does not mean they're not discussing anything. Especially considering how many topics surface again and again that have been discussed in great length and how fast the forums are it's understandable that they can't answer in each thread.

They don't go on twitter, on what should be their personal accounts and talk about their hair color and beer they had in Germany and then discuss their product and even antagonize fans there.

Then you must be new to Twitter. Pretty much everyone I follow mixes up personal stuff with work related stuff, since both influence their lives. The official Twitter account is btw @bioware or @masseffect. Not Jessica and she never antagonized me personally.

What I'm getting at is that she can tweet from anywhere, so where she is has nothing to do with it.

You did not understand me correctly. I meant this thread - reading a tweet on your iphone while between meetings is very different from reading up on a forum thread, let alone answer it. Since Gamescom took much of her time it's understandable she couldn't be as active here. And from what I've read she's sick atm as she got a barotrauma from her flight.

[dorktainian]

ME3 shows a massive lack of Quality Control. I should know because that is my area. Quality Control does not only apply to the finished product, but to all areas involved in the creation of the product. If i gave the same responses to my customers that bioware has given to its customers, then my company would be living on borrowed time big style.

Bioware forgot the most important rule.

''The CUSTOMER is always right''

They released a turkey. They met Internet Rage. You would have thought all those '75 perfect scores would have ensured a perfect game, but it was obvious something was amiss as soon as we booted up the game for the first time.

Then came the fan Backlash. Did they listen? No they suggested it was 'our fault' cos we didnt get it? Seriously? If I had said that to one of my customers I would be sacked. You always go along with customer concerns - even if you dont agree with them. For them to just cast them aside shows a complete lack of respect for their audience.

They have failed to listen to us on numerous occasions and to be quite frank, deserve all the nerdrage coming their way. We, as customers, know the facts. We know the ending sucks. We know what we see and we know what we like. Then to be told that actually Bioware know better than it's customers? Without your customers you are nothing. You rise or fall by your actions (or reactions) to customer feedback.

I could go into a lot more detail about exactly why ME3 failed (putting my work hat on) but i just cannot be arsed to be honest.

One thing tho. Blaming your customers will get you exactly what you deserve.

And no amount of DLC for an incomplete / poorly written / poorly thought out game will bring you back from that place Bioware.


i'm gettin to old for this ****...

Modifié par dorktainian, 22 août 2012 - 09:15 .

[Eterna]

It's not like she's wrong. Sure there's been good insightful feedback. But the majority of it is irrational and hyperbolic bull ****.

[dorktainian]

Eterna5 wrote...

It's not like she's wrong. Sure there's been good insightful feedback. But the majority of it is irrational and hyperbolic bull ****.

Nobody is wrong.  Nobody is right.

Hell yeah.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Damn that was painful. They still don't get it. After all this time, and all these posts, all these fictional endings we've made that are better (none of which have blue babies), they still don't get it.

I give up.

No, people did in fact demand a reunion and blue babies. I think there was even an entire topic about the subject.

No, they didn't demand anything of the sort.  They did wish for it and ask for it and so on.  But basically what a lot of people merely wanted was some clarity that Shepard was alive and that Shepard and teammates each knew the other was alive.

So they did demand it, but also never asked for it...?

Look, she used the blue babies as an example of what people wanted in different endings. Not that was solely the only thing they wanted.

I don't wish to have appear like I think I know more than you (I don't assume this is true), but demanding and asking are 2 different things.  People ask for things all the time-are you always demanding things when you ask for something?

Demanding something suggests you are coming from some place of "authority" in that you have the right to something-it's just short of a command.  Asking for things is really just putting a wish into the form of a request.  That's not demanding.  The implication is that people were only ever demanding when even saying they'd pay for it-that is asking.

So, where'd I say that she was doing anything other than giving an example?  I took exception to the idea that people were demanding things all over the place.  I merely was pointing out that they really just wanted at the minimum one reunion scene.  What JM said after a lot of other stuff had been said about this, was that BW could not customize a reunion for everyone.  And she kind of repeats that in the podcast.  Why was it possible then to customize a memorial wall scene.  And really does it take too much work and imagination to merely substitute part of that for a hospital bed scene with basically the same scene as the wall but with the appropriate LI in place?  That would have been very easy to do. 

BW stepped in this all kinds of ways-JM said there would be a reunion and then she said it was implied, then she said she never said what she did say.  I read it and others had copies of it saved.  Then BW devs said they never knew people wanted one, then they said the gasping torso was a beacon of hope or Shepard's dying gasp.  Then, JM said BW couldn't make a customized reunion scene and then she said the ending was left ambiguous on purpose.  Are we having fun yet?

So when people ask for things or did ask for things, most of what comes out is frustration.  BW is a company that can't get their story straight on any issue.  Mass relays destroy the galaxy, but they never meant for them to-except they did.  MP required for SP-no, it's not needed, except it was.  And each of these is a long tail of how they couldn't just come out with the truth and talk to fans.  No, twitter, and reddit, and IGN and so on, that's for talking to fans or talking about them.  The BSN-I have no idea why they created it or what it's for.

I completely agree.  Frankly I think our BW Community Manager was undermined by others (i.e. the writers).  I actually feel badly for her.  I suspect she got put out there to deal with customers and did that in a way that genuine and then got her legs hacked out from under her.  Being loyal to her co-workers, she has been reduced to "politician speak" having been undermined.

One thing she did get right.  While numerically MP was required to get the "best endings" in SP, in reality it didn't matter much.  No matter what your EMS was, you got a lousy ending.  My high EMS Destroy still requires a head canon.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

So what precisely did you mean by "improve the feedback we receive which will in turn improve the games we make"?

Come on.  Most of the threads quickly devolve into arguments between a handful of motivated posters.  Of these threads most are threads about telling people who choose certain endings that they are morally rephrensible and that x ending is the real ending.

Other threads complain about really nitpicky things that don't matter or are already explained ingame/so trivial to explain there is no real need to address the complaint.

Of all the threads on all of BSN there are a few that are well reasoned, well presented, and also level headed and do not devolve into arguments.  Of those threads even fewer work within constraints of real world game development, the boundaries Bioware has clearly set with how far they are willing to go, etc. .  Of those remaining threads, even fewer are not IT related.

At the end of the day, this means most of the actual 'feedback' on BSN is useless.  Thus, there is a high signal to noise ratio and the valid and truly implementable feedback just gets lost.  

I'm not saying this feedback doesn't exist, or that most people who hate the endings are irrational, but what I am saying is that most people who post on BSN have next to nothing productive to contribute (myself included) and so any real feedback is easily lost in a sea of triviality.

Yes.  Speech will be better once we designate an overlord to determine which is the really good speech and which speech lacks "enough value." 

There have been some pretty repressive regimes that have tried that out before.

Modifié par PuppiesOfDeath2, 22 août 2012 - 08:10 .

[inko1nsiderate]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

So what precisely did you mean by "improve the feedback we receive which will in turn improve the games we make"?

Come on.  Most of the threads quickly devolve into arguments between a handful of motivated posters.  Of these threads most are threads about telling people who choose certain endings that they are morally rephrensible and that x ending is the real ending.

Other threads complain about really nitpicky things that don't matter or are already explained ingame/so trivial to explain there is no real need to address the complaint.

Of all the threads on all of BSN there are a few that are well reasoned, well presented, and also level headed and do not devolve into arguments.  Of those threads even fewer work within constraints of real world game development, the boundaries Bioware has clearly set with how far they are willing to go, etc. .  Of those remaining threads, even fewer are not IT related.

At the end of the day, this means most of the actual 'feedback' on BSN is useless.  Thus, there is a high signal to noise ratio and the valid and truly implementable feedback just gets lost.  

I'm not saying this feedback doesn't exist, or that most people who hate the endings are irrational, but what I am saying is that most people who post on BSN have next to nothing productive to contribute (myself included) and so any real feedback is easily lost in a sea of triviality.

Yes.  Speech will be better once we designate an overlord to determine which is the really good speech and which speech lacks "enough value." 

There have been some pretty represive regimes that have tried that out before.

Wow that is complete bull****.  My point is that some kinds of speech are easier to implement for a video games and others aren't, not that the speech shouldn't exist.  Talk about a strawman argument.  

The point is that if you are looking at the BSN for ideas you can actually implement in a practical way, these ideas get lost in noise.  I wasn't saying that the noise shouldn't exist or we shouldn't have first amendment rights, so you can **** right off.  It is like saying political speech about who is the cooler person doesn't clutter up policy debates.  Complaining about that cluttering and pointing out its effects are not the same as saying 'we should kill anyone who votes for a president because of how cool they are'.

Your insinuation that I'd support some 'against the wall' regime is totally out of line and completely off base.  

Modifié par inko1nsiderate, 22 août 2012 - 08:01 .

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

I have now listened to the podcast. I must say, the level of self-deception among the BW folks is high. The premise is that people that don't like something are inherently more noisy. That is the nature of people. Therefore, the fact that there are a lot people expressing dissatisfaction doesn't mean anything because all of the more numerous satisfied people don't speak up.

In fact, a lot of people you don't hear from simply quit the game unfinished. Many saw the endings and thought, "They're terrible." That can't be very satisfying to Bioware. And telling your customers that you need a couch for them to lie upon when they complain isn't respectful either, by the way.

Finally, the podcast affords us all another example of how the "game press" is totally in the pocket of the game studios. The moderator goes out of his way to say "I loved the endings." It appears you have to say that to get the interview. Without the interview, you don't have a job. Sycophancy isn't very impressive though. I'm waiting for someone to say, "By the way, Jess, I thought the endings sucked." But I'm not holding my breath (unlike Commander Shepard).

I just want the answer to one question. In the player's guide Bioware released, the company stated that "Shepard lives" in the high EMS Destroy ending. Why did you write that in the player's guide you sold if you weren't willing to show that ending to players?

Seems like a bait and switch to me.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

So what precisely did you mean by "improve the feedback we receive which will in turn improve the games we make"?

Come on.  Most of the threads quickly devolve into arguments between a handful of motivated posters.  Of these threads most are threads about telling people who choose certain endings that they are morally rephrensible and that x ending is the real ending.

Other threads complain about really nitpicky things that don't matter or are already explained ingame/so trivial to explain there is no real need to address the complaint.

Of all the threads on all of BSN there are a few that are well reasoned, well presented, and also level headed and do not devolve into arguments.  Of those threads even fewer work within constraints of real world game development, the boundaries Bioware has clearly set with how far they are willing to go, etc. .  Of those remaining threads, even fewer are not IT related.

At the end of the day, this means most of the actual 'feedback' on BSN is useless.  Thus, there is a high signal to noise ratio and the valid and truly implementable feedback just gets lost.  

I'm not saying this feedback doesn't exist, or that most people who hate the endings are irrational, but what I am saying is that most people who post on BSN have next to nothing productive to contribute (myself included) and so any real feedback is easily lost in a sea of triviality.

Yes.  Speech will be better once we designate an overlord to determine which is the really good speech and which speech lacks "enough value." 

There have been some pretty represive regimes that have tried that out before.

Wow that is complete bull****.  My point is that some kinds of speech are easier to implement for a video games and others aren't, not that the speech shouldn't exist.  Talk about a strawman argument.  

The point is that if you are looking at the BSN for ideas you can actually implement in a practical way, these ideas get lost in noise.  I wasn't saying that the noise shouldn't exist or we shouldn't have first amendment rights, so you can **** right off.  It is like saying political speech about who is the cooler person doesn't clutter up policy debates.  Complaining about that cluttering and pointing out its effects are not the same as saying 'we should kill anyone who votes for a president because of how cool they are'.

Your insinuation that I'd support some 'against the wall' regime is totally out of line and completely off base.  

I'm a bit surprised that you thought I assumed you embraced that argument.  I don't believe I said that.  But when I hear Bioware talking in the podcast about how complaints aren't representative and that it wants to improve their feedback gathering, color me suspicious.

Modifié par PuppiesOfDeath2, 22 août 2012 - 08:07 .