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Is Jacob just a walking, talking stereotype?


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#1
MuhidinSaid

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Now now, hear me out, this isn't just me playing the race card against bioware without any proof, they've given us characters of many ethnic groups that have a lot of character and depth to them, Anderson and Emily Wong come to mind, Ashley kinda, but she always just seemed like too much of a grunt to me. But Jacob? I can't say he's a well written character, or at least as well written as the former two, despite arguably having more screentime. He`s just a walking, talking cliche, pretty much everything about him is. I may be groping at straws in some of the points i address behind my reasoning, but there are some pretty definite links between Jacob and a stereotypical black male, or what people identify as ``normal`` in African-American culture.

Speaking as a black male myself, you can see why this might annoy me a little more than the average mass effect fan, but hey, I bet there are black fans who are indifferent to him, so I`ll clarify that I`m only voicing my own, specific opinion about Jacob.

It`s not that he`s boring, I got past that with Kaiden, and at first I imagined him as a Kaiden-knock off(the moderate biotic talent also helping reinforce this view), or simply just too much of a nice boy scout to be in cerberus, a black ops human supremacist organization. I just  wished Jacob would end up exposing additional layers of a personality that was fanatically loyal to TIM as well as to the ascension of humanity above despised alien species., a ruthless, cunning man, that to female players and avid femsheps alike, would present an interesting LI, but I guess his niceness was supposed to counterbalance Miranda`s iciness. In short, I expected TIM jr, but what I got was far worse.

Let me start from the beginning, I will use an example that most femsheps will be familiar with:

-Every conversation you have with Jacob after the prologue involves him coming onto you like a relentless teenager on the head cheerleader in high school. You basically can`t talk to this guy as a femshep without sounding like a tramp and him sounding like a sexual deviant.

Also consider this:

-Jacob previously dated Miranda, a white woman with a, uhm...booty that needs to be encased in metal chains simply to keep it from wobbling endlessly when she walks.

-Jacob works out, A LOT, the Shadow Broker`s terminal is proof of this, I guess that`s how he keeps his bizarrely neat abs.

-Jacob`s father probably takes the crown for ``Mass effect **** daddy of the year``, but there are some strong contenders.

-Miranda`s dad, for instance,  but he was more of an **** in the way that he wanted to use her assets(not just the bod!) for personal gain, as his legacy,  and generally treating her more like a means to an end than a daughter, but I don`t think that is really comparable to Jacob`s issues with his dad.

-Tali`s father comes to mind too, but he`s the dad who seemed to make grand promises he couldn`t keep, not realizing that while he was trying to make those dreams come to fruition, that his daughter faced neglection at his hands, can`t say this squares up to the first two though.

-Garrus`s dad is a hardass himself, but is pretty much just a stickler for rules and regulations. Don`t think there are any other daddy issues mass effect characters, excluding Wrex, as his dad betrayed and tried to kill him.

-Liara kinda, but she reconciles with her father in me3, and hers was mostly just the ``never met you till now dad`` problem.

-Ashley and her dad have a pretty solid relationship, finally a normal family :D.

-Anyways, back to Jacob, his dad is guilty of asserting control over a group of shipwrecked survivors that he was part of, he hoards food and medical supplies for himself, turns the females in the group into comfort women, forcing crew members to eat native foods that cause neural degeneration, essentially living like a king, not caring about contacting his family or treating his crew decently instead of like animals for the most part. Jacob`s dad essentially abandons him to live in a twisted fantasy of his own making, and then makes up a bullsht cowardly story to try to weasel out of being killed or arrested. Wow.

-Oh yeah, and in me3, if you romance Jacob...he cheats on you and knocks up another chick:lol:.

-At this point I can`t differentiate Jacob`s me2-me3 story from a Tyler perry movie, it`s that BAD.

In point form, if youre too lazy to read the whole thing, I`ll quickly recap why I think Jacob is a walking stereotype that just amounts to poor writing and perhaps some mild racism or trolling on Bioware`s part.

-Jacob comes on too strong
-Jacob dated a white girl with a phat ass.
-Jacob`s dad left home and never returned
-Jacob works out...did i mention he does this alot:mellow:
-if you romance jacob in me3 he cheats on you and knocks up another chick.

Am I blowing this out of proportion or am I on to something here?  Honestly it`s like Bioware gave up on him from the get-go, it`s like he was an...afterthought. ``Oh hey lets add a black guy so as to make me2 moar diverse, despite the fact that we feature a broad range of diverse humans and aliens in the me2 squad`, but due to laziness and or time constraints, his back story will be taken from rap songs and gangsta movies``.

C`mon bioware, you can write well for black, latino, asian characters, Anderson, Kasumi,etc, why skimp on Jacob?

Modifié par MuhidinSaid, 19 août 2012 - 06:02 .


#2
Stalker

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Agreed. It's pretty obvious when you think about it.

The only prejudice we needed were chicken wings at some point and we would have a truly complete example of a racist stereotype.

#3
Beep Il

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Funny. People who call him boring also call him Kaiden.

#4
BadExamp1e

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What about the cool aid?

#5
iSousek

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MuhidinSaid wrote...

-Jacob previously dated Miranda, a white woman with a, uhm...booty that needs to be encased in metal chains simply to keep it from wobbling endlessly when she walks.

 

You are watchin to much pr0n

MuhidinSaid wrote... 

-Jacob works out, A LOT, the Shadow Broker`s terminal is proof of this, I guess that`s how he keeps his bizarrely neat abs.

  

I'm going to a gym filled with white people who are ripped and work out alot. Also, most  of the famous black-oriented TV shows portray African-Americans completely different. Take Bill Cosby or Steve Urkel. Fresh Prince...

MuhidinSaid wrote...  

-Jacob`s father probably takes the crown for ``Mass effect **** daddy of the year``, but there are some strong contenders.

  

Cant argue against this one, though I can't really see how is having a bad father cultural stereotype. 

MuhidinSaid wrote...  
Oh yeah, and in me3, if you romance Jacob...he cheats on you and knocks up another chick:lol:.

   

I am not acquainted with a cultural stereotype where black ppl are known for cheating.

#6
o Ventus

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Mr Massakka wrote...

Agreed. It's pretty obvious when you think about it.

The only prejudice we needed were chicken wings at some point and we would have a truly complete example of a racist stereotype.


And grape soda. 

#7
MuhidinSaid

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If Jacob had just one or two of these factors I could let it go, but 5? I was downright suspicious in me2 but after his mission in me3 I knew Bioware was trolling us.

#8
DineBoo

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Jacob was treated horribly. He could have been a lot of things

He was great during the Lazarus section of ME2, and I wanted that Jacob throughout the game. But since I played femShep, they had her flirting/drooling over him before you romance anyone. Why was that even done? And because of that I couldn't really talk to him as femShep. When I dabbled in broShep, it was a lot better.

Then when you get to ME3 they take away Jacob as a LI to femShep and make him a cheater and give him baby mama drama. Was anyone at BW even aware how borderline stereotypical this was? Especially when he was pretty much the black guy (besides Anderson) in the entire series?

Poor Jacob fans. They get smacked in the face by BW making him this douchey character, when it's obviously he's not. They struggled through all the BS to get to the character who asjkes how femShep feels and tells her he loves her. They should have gotten rewarded.

Instead of correcting their mistakes, BW took the easy way out and made him a douche so he wouldn't be an LI.

#9
MuhidinSaid

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iSousek wrote...

MuhidinSaid wrote...

-Jacob previously dated Miranda, a white woman with a, uhm...booty that needs to be encased in metal chains simply to keep it from wobbling endlessly when she walks.

 

You are watchin to much pr0n

MuhidinSaid wrote... 

-Jacob works out, A LOT, the Shadow Broker`s terminal is proof of this, I guess that`s how he keeps his bizarrely neat abs.

  

I'm going to a gym filled with white people who are ripped and work out alot. Also, most  of the famous black-oriented TV shows portray African-Americans completely different. Take Bill Cosby or Steve Urkel. Fresh Prince...

MuhidinSaid wrote...  

-Jacob`s father probably takes the crown for ``Mass effect **** daddy of the year``, but there are some strong contenders.

  

Cant argue against this one, though I can't really see how is having a bad father cultural stereotype. 

MuhidinSaid wrote...  
Oh yeah, and in me3, if you romance Jacob...he cheats on you and knocks up another chick:lol:.

   

I am not acquainted with a cultural stereotype where black ppl are known for cheating.



You`re being deliberately obtuse. Even if you romance him he`s still got a baby mama rolling around in the sack with him, does that not make you want to nerdrage to the heavens?

#10
MuhidinSaid

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DineBoo wrote...

Jacob was treated horribly. He could have been a lot of things

He was great during the Lazarus section of ME2, and I wanted that Jacob throughout the game. But since I played femShep, they had her flirting/drooling over him before you romance anyone. Why was that even done? And because of that I couldn't really talk to him as femShep. When I dabbled in broShep, it was a lot better.

Then when you get to ME3 they take away Jacob as a LI to femShep and make him a cheater and give him baby mama drama. Was anyone at BW even aware how borderline stereotypical this was? Especially when he was pretty much the black guy (besides Anderson) in the entire series?

Poor Jacob fans. They get smacked in the face by BW making him this douchey character, when it's obviously he's not. They struggled through all the BS to get to the character who asjkes how femShep feels and tells her he loves her. They should have gotten rewarded.

Instead of correcting their mistakes, BW took the easy way out and made him a douche so he wouldn't be an LI.


Yeah, I think he was the only LI you can`t complete the actual romance with. Even with Thane, Kelly, you get your moments and closure.

#11
iSousek

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I am not being deliberatly obsute. I am just saying that most of the things you listed I do not percieve as cultural stereotypes. Those stereotypes are usually created and perpetuated by the media. So in the end it really all depends on where you live and how does the media handle cultural stereotypes.

So for you a sterotypical black guy is someone who works out, had a crappy father (Jacob's story with his dad is a bit more complex but lets leave it here) and knocked some woman up.

For me a stereotypical black guy is someone who plays bass or trumpet in a jazz assamble.

#12
MuhidinSaid

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iSousek wrote...

I am not being deliberatly obsute. I am just saying that most of the things you listed I do not percieve as cultural stereotypes. Those stereotypes are usually created and perpetuated by the media. So in the end it really all depends on where you live and how does the media handle cultural stereotypes.

So for you a sterotypical black guy is someone who works out, had a crappy father (Jacob's story with his dad is a bit more complex but lets leave it here) and knocked some woman up.

For me a stereotypical black guy is someone who plays bass or trumpet in a jazz assamble.


True, the media is responsible for cultural stereotypes, but honestly that is the textbook definition of the stereotypical black guy, and i `d switch works out to works out ALOT, i should really stress that.

And the playing bass and trumpet is kind of an antiquated stereotype, and besides, most people would think that`s classy, you don`t see a lot of people who hate Jazz, just saying.

#13
iSousek

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MuhidinSaid wrote...

iSousek wrote...

I am not being deliberatly obsute. I am just saying that most of the things you listed I do not percieve as cultural stereotypes. Those stereotypes are usually created and perpetuated by the media. So in the end it really all depends on where you live and how does the media handle cultural stereotypes.

So for you a sterotypical black guy is someone who works out, had a crappy father (Jacob's story with his dad is a bit more complex but lets leave it here) and knocked some woman up.

For me a stereotypical black guy is someone who plays bass or trumpet in a jazz assamble.


True, the media is responsible for cultural stereotypes, but honestly that is the textbook definition of the stereotypical black guy, and i `d switch works out to works out ALOT, i should really stress that.

And the playing bass and trumpet is kind of an antiquated stereotype, and besides, most people would think that`s classy, you don`t see a lot of people who hate Jazz, just saying.


Well, that's it then. We simply have different interpretations of what we speak of. A textbook example of what stands in my signature

I see nothing stereotypical about a black person who is:

-Ex-military

-Joined a paramilitary organization because he wanted to fight the good fight

-Had a relationship with a woman he worked with (omg she is white and has a huge ass)

-Had a bad relationship with his father (even though it wasn't a bad relationship. His father didn't abondon him. They were distant and never developed a real relationship).

-He works out (not because he is gangsta, but because he is a soldier)

-Fell in love with woman A, then cheated on her with woman B who is carrying his child now

For me that is just a normal person who happens to be black in this case.

#14
MuhidinSaid

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I never mentioned the first two as being stereotypical of him, but the last 4 yes, guess we won`t see eye to eye but I did get a couple of nods in this thread, showing I`m not the only one who`s connected the dots.

#15
DineBoo

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@Sousek For me the stereotype comes in more in ME3, though it kind comes in ME2 by the way femShep talks to him.

What kills it for me, a black woman, is when he couldn't wait for femShep while she was locked up for six months and he got someone pregnant too!

Leaving out the issue of why Jacob couldn't wait for femShep but everyone could wait for broShep, this is the stereotype that haunts black men. That they all sleep around, can't be tied down, and have a bunch of baby mamas. This is why I can't believe BW couldn't see how making Jacob behave this way would look to people playing the game.

I'm half surprised they didn't make Brynn and neck rolling finger snapping woman getting up in femShep's face, another stereotype for black woman. She gets close, since she knew Jacob was with femShep and went after him anyway.

There was no indications that Jacob couldn't handle being in a relationship in ME2. None. He was with Miri, but I saw no sighs of doucheyness . ME3's Jacob was character assassination.

#16
N7 Spectre525

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Lost a little more respect for Bioware when I got to Jacobs story arc. Stereotypical Black man with absent father who cant commit to a woman for any length of time. Thats just Bull**** bioware!
And to top it off he knocks the chick up? You have got to be kidding.

#17
ottifant64

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Brynn got the priiizzzeee...

#18
ottifant64

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Beep Il wrote...

Funny. People who call him boring also call him Kaiden.


You think everybody loves Kaidan? :mellow:

#19
MuhidinSaid

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He is basically a cardboard cut-out of Kaiden though, Kaiden just has more depth to him IMO.

#20
HK-90210

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In ME2? No, he was just a character who happened to be black. In ME3? Yes, no question in my mind. Course, stereotyping Jacob was the LEAST of my concerns about Jacob's treatment in ME3.

IMO, Bioware completely overode eerything that made Jacob's character special if he was romanced. Where he was stable, he was now infirm. Where he was morally upright, he was now douchey. Where he was a tough, competant bitoic who specialized in barriers, he was now.....shot.

Not to mention that those of us who liked him and his romance in ME2 got a nice large dump shat on us by whoever was in charge of his character writing and direction in ME3. It's not something I can forgive Bioware for. They made me feel an emotion, sure. But it was a bad emotion. A REALLY bad emotion.