51 réponses à ce sujet

[johngaltjr]

 After finishing my 1st character, a DW rogue, I decided to play a 2H warrior.  I'm almost done with the game again and I gotta say, 2H is much more powerful than DW.  I'm dealing triple digit per hit (non-critical), can stun at will, am immune to anything that checks physical resistance.  I put (literally) all of my points into STR, ignoring the other stats.  I have a nice pair of boots equipped that gives the extra stamina I need without any willpower.  I basically never miss (maybe once every 20 swings), and with Sunder Arms and Armor attack pretty fast.  Add in haste and a swift salve every once in a while and forget about it.  Playing on Nightmare this time, and it feels easier than first run on Normal.

Sure the DW rogue attacked crazy fast, and could critical at will, and sure the runes stack more and momentum + haste + precise striking is a sight to behold, but overall I still feel like my 2H kills things faster.  There's no doubt it was a weaker build the first 25% of the game, but after that 2H owns.  Turning point was getting sunder arms and armor I think.  Basically doubles your attack speed.  Just my 2 cents. 

Modifié par johngaltjr, 22 décembre 2009 - 10:45 .

[Cuthlan]

After playing through with a better 2h build than my previous (much more str), I am a bit curious about the numbers now. Toward the endgame, with Haste, I felt like I was killing just as quickly as the DW rogues I've played.



Top that with a significantly better AOE attack and the awesomeness of Indomitable, and the 2h warrior is without a doubt the most fun character for me.

[johngaltjr]

Yeah, I was motivated to post this after reading pretty detailed calculations that DW daggers was superior, and the further you got from that the less DPS you did. But I think those calculations are flawed. You gotta factor in spamming sunder arms and armor nonstop, as well as not having to put any points into dex (or cunning if you are a rogue). The stuff you get from warden's keep helps 2H out a lot, so I guess if you don't count that in there maybe the two are closer.

[Sarevok Anchev]

Aye. My first char was a 2h Warrior, but i miscalculated him.

My new one does much better. And this time im even playing Nightmare Plus!



Btw.: Momentum+Haste cancels each other. And Precise Strike DEcreases your Attack speed

[johngaltjr]

momentum + haste actually puts you over the max attack speed the engine can handle, so it resets to normal attack speed. precise strike slows you down just enough to fit under the engine max speed, so that is actually how you achieve max attack speed with a DW. At least from my personal experience playing with 1.02 on PC.

[Zabaniya]

It's pretty much what you like. Me, I used to be a warrior type but honestly the entire rogue thing just got me somewhere along the line. Nothing like a dex rogue evading everything in the game.

I have to admit though that number-wise, warriors really are stronger than put on paper.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Add Fire/Frost weapons in the calculation and there is no contest - DW wins hands-down.

[johngaltjr]

hmm I typically had fire and telekinetic activated.. still felt like the 2H was doing more damage, especally against higher ranked enemies.

[Invalidcode]

2H is fun to play and pretty awesome.

Pure damage output though? Cannot compare to DW builds.

[Eragondragonrider]

I don't know about 2h builds, when I played mine it seamed my tank and dw rogue archer where killing things faster then I could swing at them the only thing that was fun was going toe to toe with the arch-demon and whacking him upside the head with my big sword

[Fluffykeith]

DW might be able to rack up more damage, but damage is really all they can do...I found my 2-hander warrior could respond better to changing situations due to their more flexible skillset.



An example would be when my caster/healer got jumped by a mob...my DW characters only option was to start hacking away and hope that they got the aggro, or killed the mob, before my caster got splatted. My 2-hander could instantly use a knockdown to get the mob off the caster, and then follow up with a very big hit.

[janus0891]

Seriously , 2H are the best category for warrior dps if you build it correctly AND play it correctly ..

Simply because they are the utlimate boss and lieutenants killers and on top of that never ever get stunned/KD which is a HUGE advantage in hard mode and have cc ability with 2H sweep  as well as are not really affected as much as some think by the slow attack speed  , because you keep spamming special attacks , and when timed well , you end up actually hitting  as often as a s/s for the most important part of the difficult fights  .

Nothing beats a 2H one on one , not even a Mage as OP as some claim (Nearest visible : Cleanse area , he's screwed as he can't resist with any type of check and thus can't cast + Holy Smite or Warcry with stun/spirit damage , then you run at him : sunder arm + 2H sweep or pommel strike + critical strike , bye bye Mage , thanks for participation ) , Mage are OP because of the party buffing ad AOE , but against Templar 2H with high willpower 1vs1 , no Mage can compare .

Now , how to build an OP 2H in my humble opinion :

1) Pump strength and willpower , without neglecting con , don't touch anything else !

2) Never Ever let your PC be in auto-hit when possible , 2H is ALL about using special attacks one after the other , sunder arm/sunder armor are of the highest importance , you must use them SYSTEMATICALLY , their cooldown is low and they are cheap and they rule (2 hits with critical possibility) , that's why will power is important , other build like DW will invest in dex instead , but don't touch dex as a 2H , pump willpower and you will become an uber Templar by the end of the game with 400+ damage with only sunder arm+ armor ) , 2H are the best Templar because they can ignore dex in favour of willpower , which makes holy smite totally uber later in the game

3) Now forget about fluid unpaused combat , 2H requires micro management , you can't just let him destroy a mob in auto-hit like a DW can , on the other hand the only thing a DW will do better is to thrash white mobs , HOWEVER it's not always true because 2H Sweep is amazing , try to get purposedly surrounded by 5 guys while in Beserker mode and land a 2H sweep , and boom , they are all dead , cause with the bard song of courage + your mage casting heroic offence , you're totally amazing against any mob , anyone , aything , because of indomitable (you never get interrupted in your spamming ) and more importantly , because the poor attack speed of your greatsword/maul/axe doesn't affect anything since you keep spamming special attacks ... that do A LOT of damage by mid-game , my 2H is by far the easiest playthrough i had so far as a warrior , i can solo with him , that says it all , he's almost on par with my arcane mage stacking haste , rock armor , miasma , spell wisp , spell might , arcane shield , telekinetic weapons and fire weapons while still able to heal himself when necessary and supported by Wynne second haste and glyphs ... that should tell you something

4) Pommel strike is awesome , because it Necessarily lands ... it is useful as a fight opening to knock someone down and let him to feed my dog or get Allistair busy while i'm running towards a more important target , Powerful swings is useless , don't even bother putting it on your talent bar , use mighty blow and critical strike only on targets that are stunned/immobilized

5) manage your stamina well , remember all the special attacks except 2H sweep are just here to let you wait for the sunder arm/armor cooldown , sunder arm/armor is your bread and butter , do not activate indomitable when it is not necessary , don't wear massive armours , enchant your weapons with elementals , don't forget that the most powerful spell in this game is Haste , believe it or not , 2 Handers love Haste and Bards , dont' use taunt/threaten or exceptionally if your constitution permits , you're not a tank , you're a destroyer

That's it on the top of my head , but i know that most people having a bad opinion about 2H are those who let their PC auto-hit most of the time because they have ridiculous willpower , or those who judge the class without having levelled at least to level 11+ where the 2H starts being an uber machine , or those who do not use sunders and spamming attacks properly or manage their stamina depending on how many and which mob you face and didn't understood that the only weakness of a 2H is against Magic if you are not Templar , so you should pick up gears with spell resist if you aren't a Templar , no other thing can resist you otherwise , in fact the worst thing you can face is stealthed high level backstabbing rogues , but then you have pommel strike and you finish them on the floor 1 by 1 or use 2H sweep at the right moment to stun/kill them .

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 01:01 .

[ForumFightingMan]

personally I dont really like 2h weapons, particularly swords, mostly because it doesnt make sense that the only 2h swords are those ridiculously heavy things that it doesnt really look like most of the character's should be able to carry. especially considering they have shorter, lighter 2h weapons in the cinematics. would be awesome if they made them better so you diddnt feel like youre swinging around a gigantic bit of wood or something.

[janus0891]

Yusaris is a nice sword , you can get it in a certain Mage tower quest , looks good . Acouple of other swords look good like the summersword .But Personally , i'm more into Axes and higher mele crit  or Mauls for the armor penetration 

Damage is still very good , naked  you should be at least  over 50  points in strength by mid-game, 30+ willpower  (or more if you are  Templar/Champion , Berserker/Reaver is also a very good combination if you're more of the individualistic kind , you get the highest dps and survivability but you need a mage to fight mages and can't buff your party )

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 01:26 .

[Pellegrin]

The primary issue with the effectiveness of 2H is that missing can really skew your DPS. I agree that it shouldn't deal the same damage as an optimized DW because it does have more utility. However...it can significantly lag behind, especially on harder difficulties. Also consider that when you do 70 damage to a creature with 25 HP left you are wasting that DPS.

[janus0891]

That is correct , 2H rule in damage per hit  , and  can spam attacks one after the other with very small pause between them , this boost its damage per second  .

However you are right to point out the waste of DPS of 2H against small mobs , that's why 2H sweep comes handy as it stuns a whole pack of mobs instantly dealing serious damage if not killing them outright at higher levels  , a DW can't do that but as you pointed out , the DW will still kill more white guys per second in normal conditions , the fight may last a little longer with a 2H than a DW  , but with the same result and an easier time against non white mobs  for the 2H in my opinion because he can't be KD/stunned  and is extremely strong in 1vs1 fight because of special attack spamming with very high damage per hit  and instant knockdowns with pommel strike

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 01:39 .

[F-C]

i just find this thread extremly hilarious because about 2 or 3 weeks ago there was a pack of whiners on the forums raging about how terrible 2hd was. just goes to show how many bads post on this forum thinking they are awesome while doing it wrong.

[janus0891]

I have to say , after my 4th playthrough , now i reallocate my points in my character to make it more realistic when i started my 2H campaign .

For example my Dog has only 5 cunning (it's a dog after all ) and 0 Magic  (Dogs don't do magic , it's a human/elves thing after all )  , i use these points into con and strength . Same for my 2H character , i let everything by default except magic , i have only 5 instead of 10 (as my noble warrior has never done magic , he just has the potential for Magic like any human which should be 5 , but nowhere near as much as a Magi guy who have 10 or 15 by default because they have been raised and schooled to developp this ability ) .

Thus i have 5 points available to strength from the start of my games but  only 5 in magic attributes  , they are not additional points , just relocated in order to be more realistic .

It's easy to do , when you level up , if you want to substract your points from Magic   , you add your points into magic , then click "reset" , then you can take back the same number of points you added and reallocate them into strength for example . However health poultices won't heal as well even if the difference is difficult to notice , but it makes in my eyes a more reaslitic build , and five point into strength instead of magic is good at the beggining with 2H

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 02:11 .

[Scoon millar]

i messed up my 1st 2h build but some good advice here i intend to use as i dont use mages this is my best bet for the 250 hit achivement so thx for the help

[Zabaniya]

janus0891 wrote...
For example my Dog has only 5 cunning (it's a dog after all ) and 0 Magic  (Dogs don't do magic , it's a human/elves thing after all )  , i use these points into con and strength .

Then... Alistair has only 4 cunning? 

[Torias]

I'll also recommend Perfect Fighting -> Precise Striking -> Special Abilities as the perfect way to start a battle.

Perfect Striking lasts for a good length of time, and it is instant cast (pause game, click Perfect Striking, double tap space bar to un-pause and re-pause as fast as possible, Perfect Striking will have been cast. Click on Precise Striking, double tap space bar to un-pause and re-pause as fast as possible, Precise Striking will have been activated at 0 stamina cost since it's upkeep is less than the casting cost of Perfect Striking).

Then go nuts with special abilities, starting with Sunder Arms (Since it has the quickest cooldown, want to always be casting that whenever you can).

[janus0891]

I also wanted to say that for the 2H , the Mages that complements it the best are :

1) the Druid style : spellwisp/stingingswarm line (nature damage/magic) + earth line (petrify , earthquake are also nature damage ) + Heal line + spirit healer line

. Druid style works better than let's say a sort of Necromancer with the entropic line of hexes , death cloud etc.. because stamina is too important for the 2H , Druid can heal /regenerate stamina like the Bard , Petrify + Mighty blow = shatter , stinging swarm is awesome for hitting white mob archers or concentrated white mobs because the insects move to the next target once it kills one and it allows the 2H to focus on the non-white "big guys" and save the stamina of 2H sweep . . It also works well because spell wisp grants bonus to stamina regen spells and insects , and because with indomitable , you can walk over an earthquake at ease and destroy anyone affected by it or slowed . Then there is spell bloom for extra stamina regen ...

Cleric style : all Heroic offence/Haste line + Heal line + Glyphs + spell might and telekinetic

It works well with 2H  , because Heroic offence , Haste are the best friend of  a destroyer , telekinetic weapons is great for armor piercing , Cleric style of Mage has nice cc with forcefield and glyphs combos , can heal and his spells are powerful cause of spell might etc.. this makes the 2H stronger but nothing prevents you to take a Druid type with Haste line .

I say this cause with a DW Rogue for example , i've found that Mages based on "debuffs" like Hexes and necro magic like sleep+waking nightmare , death hex + death cloud  etc.. worked better with my back stabbing Rogue who was more of a speciliazed single target assassin 

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 03:27 .

[Trajan60]

The trick to a 2H warrior is to also pump points into Willpower.

[janus0891]

Yes , very important indeed , pump strength primarily , but get your willpower 30+ and your con 20+ to start feeling very strong .

2H need a tank aside them so no need to wear the massive armours that lower your stamina  even though  you will draw a lot of mob because you're the one who does the most damage in your party if your Mage is tailored to support you like the Druid with haste i talked about  .

Cause if you take a pure DPS elemental mage for example  , he will make more damage than your 2H because he will kill tons of whites with AOE spells , but he won't benefit as much the party on the long run because the rest of the party will be  far weaker than it could be , better have all your party stronger than just relying on a dominant mage , complementarity/ teamwork is so superior )

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 03:23 .

[Jman5]

I've been running around with Sten, Oghren, and myself all in 2-handers and we are just running the game over. I think the worst time I had was right after Mage Tower (my first stop after lothering). I had stupidly forgot to loot Yusaris from the demon and I had no decent gear. I was also uncertain on how all my abilities worked.



Anyway, after picking up Oghren, equipping some relatively easy to get gear, and figuring out how to play, I started ripping up dark spawn left and right. It may be harder on console because of the micro managing, but its fun as hell on a PC. Grab the Greater Chasind Maul ASAP and you're good to go.



The only thing that bothers me right now is that + damage elemental auras and + damage enchantments don't seem to calculate when you use an ability. I started using + spell resist enchantments with some good results though.