51 réponses à ce sujet

[Dieover]

do you miss allot with your 2h warrior with that build op?

[Tirigon]

I havent played 2hWarriors long enough to know the best build, but so far I like them a lot more than DW because they are weaker in autohit but have better talents, so they are more fun to play while not being weaker, if not even stronger as some of you state.

Funny thing though, that 2h has always been called the most useless skilltree in the game.

Even better that most people saying so did also say that mages are totally op and should be nerfed. Shows us something about that kind of people.

[Cuthlan]

Trajan60 wrote...

The trick to a 2H warrior is to also pump points into Willpower.

I disagree with this, somewhat. I had originally pumped Willpower for my first playthrough. Last night I finished replaying my 2h warrior with a more strength-heavy build, and I see a significantly stronger warrior now. Granted in the end I think I've only got about 5-10 less willpower than before.

With the proper items (Chasind Great Maul, Superior Dragonbone Armor, +all attribute items), you can have more than enough stamina with a small investment into Willpower. But there's no substitute for strength that is pumped as high as can be. More damage, less missing.
 
At level 24, I wound up with the following base stats:

str 95
dex 20
will 20
con 20
cun 16
magic (I can't remember, base + Fade bonuses)

Fully equipped Str was 103, and I had over 400 hitpoints and over 400 stamina. I'm very happy with this build.

[Jman5]

Dieover wrote...

do you miss allot with your 2h warrior with that build op?

I don't actually. I'm starting to think the people complaining about misses never made it past Lothering because it really isn't that bad. Strength increases attack rating for 2 handers so once you got some points into that you really aren't missing all that badly. I had Wynne buffing my party with Heroic Offense, and I would activate Precise Striking so missing was never a huge issue past early game.

Cuthlan wrote...

Trajan60 wrote...

The trick to a 2H warrior is to also pump points into Willpower.

I
disagree with this, somewhat. I had originally pumped Willpower for my
first playthrough. Last night I finished replaying my 2h warrior with a
more strength-heavy build, and I see a significantly stronger warrior
now. Granted in the end I think I've only got about 5-10 less willpower
than before.

With the proper items (Chasind Great Maul, Superior
Dragonbone Armor, +all attribute items), you can have more than enough
stamina with a small investment into Willpower. But there's no
substitute for strength that is pumped as high as can be. More damage,
less missing.
 
At level 24, I wound up with the following base stats:

str 95
dex 20
will 20
con 20
cun 16
magic (I can't remember, base + Fade bonuses)

Fully equipped Str was 103, and I had over 400 hitpoints and over 400 stamina. I'm very happy with this build.

I'm starting to wonder myself if I should have even bothered putting any points in Willpower. After you get dragon armor, and greater chasind maul, you have a ton of stamina to work with. Although it does make things easier as far as sustainers go. I have Precise Striking, Indomitable, Powerful Swings, and rally activated 100% of the time and I only have a small chunk of missing stamina from my bar.

It does make things easier pre- dragon armor and chasind maul though. With Fade bonus, and elf bonus, I have 30 willpower base.

Rejuvenate and mass rejuvenate are really nice for my 2h party as well. Your party members may run out of stamina fast with their sustains up, but it recharges quickly.

[janus0891]

20 raw willpower seems low , i have 30+ in my character + gear enhancements which made it closer to 40 , makes holy smite and champion talents devastating which is  a good advantage against mobs  to relieve your mage .

i suppose it's also good to base everything on your maul damage though ,  more damage per hit , but once you're nearing 90 strength with equipment , i feel it's more than enough against single targets , just takes a bit less auto-hits to kill it  , but the higher willpower allows for more constant spamming of  sunder double hits with crits potential attacks which i prefer , makes more damage per second

Dieover wrote...

do you miss allot with your 2h warrior with that build op?

At the beggining yes , because you are low on strength and have few talents (so  you are forced to  auto hit a lot )  , but the more you level up , the easier it gets as the less dependant on auto-hit you become  , the  higher the  strength ,  the less you will miss , at some point you will hardly ever miss if not never .

But as a rule you want to avoid being in auto-hit mode when you can afford it   (because it's slow  ),  just hit once or twice max in auto-hit  then roll on a special attack , 2H are poor on auto-hit  at the start of the game ,  precise striking helps a lot , but  sometimes it's a waste of stamina , depends the situation , against a boss , i always put it

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 04:13 .

[boomdan]

I think its all about play style... I never loved warriors rly... maybe duel wield... I always loved 2 weapons and not 2h...
I found my 2h warrior boring 4 me
Just my opinion

Modifié par boomdan, 23 décembre 2009 - 05:22 .

[Silensfurtim]

i find one man army types boring

[janus0891]

Personally , i had the most fun with 2H , i got bored of back stabbing with my DW assassin , and also bored at some point with my warrior DW too  because you basically rely on auto-hit + riposte most of the time to make the most damage  .

I like the fact that with 2H , you have to think during the fight about how to manage stamina and talent combo/spamming depending on what you're facing , i also prefer the animations and brutal talents of the 2H and it's cool to be able to wield mauls and axes and cut heavy armoured foes to pieces , face Bosses and lieutenant 1-on-1 , no knockdowns and to be able kill 5-6 mobs in one move (2H sweep ) .

i also love the fact that it's the only warrior class that makes you able to pump willpower because you don't really need dex , so you end up with an Uber champion/templar grandmaster , capable to deal with large mobs alone thanks to Warcry/HSmite , ridicule whatever powerful Mage you can find with Cleanse Area / Holy Smite while still being able to spam sunder arm/armours and finish off your targets in style with Critical hit or Mighty Blow  , i love 2H's:happy:

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 05:44 .

[zerocavities]

"momentum + haste actually puts you over the max attack speed the engine can handle"



as far as i know momentum + haste is still bugged and still does not stack and still cancel each other.

[janus0891]

Yes , Momentum and Haste do not stack AFAIK , so better not activate momentum and save stamina when you're mage has haste , but momentum gives a better speed bonus if i remember well

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 05:48 .

[Dasim4]

Haven't played a 2H warrior yet but you guys are making me want to. As far as AOE attacks against surrounding mobs though, my current rogue can use whirlwind and pretty much drop anything white around him. It's a nice talent but the cool down is rather long unfortunately. It's great to see 7 or 8 mobs drop at once though. Probably easier on a warrior since you can use taunt to gather them up.

[0mar]

Are you playing the same game I am? Sure, you can hit for 120 damage a hit and a minor stun, but in the same time frame, a DW rogue with runes and momentum can deal 240 damage. Plus, you don't need to babysit them to use abilities, just turn on momentum and go. It lets you micro the characters that really matter, the mages.



I've played all three classes and I have to say that the warrior is easily the weakest of them all. The warrior class skills just suck. Rogues get some slick abilities, such as combat movement, coup de grace and lethality. Mages are mages. If you honestly think that DW rogues are worse than a 2H warrior, I feel sorry for you.

[janus0891]

Dasim4 wrote...

Haven't played a 2H warrior yet but you
guys are making me want to. As far as AOE attacks against surrounding
mobs though, my current rogue can use whirlwind and pretty much drop
anything white around him. It's a nice talent but the cool down is
rather long unfortunately. It's great to see 7 or 8 mobs drop at once
though. Probably easier on a warrior since you can use taunt to gather
them up.

Yes and also since you have a damage bonus just for being a warrior , and the 2H sweep (for killing surrounding mobs in 1shot, 20seccooldown ) has twice less the cooldown of whirlwind (40sec) and probably does more damage , not to mention that 2H sweep actually stuns them

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 06:00 .

[Jman5]

This is what made me want to play a 2-hander.

[janus0891]

0mar wrote...

Are you playing the same game I am? Sure,
you can hit for 120 damage a hit and a minor stun, but in the same time
frame, a DW rogue with runes and momentum can deal 240 damage. Plus,
you don't need to babysit them to use abilities, just turn on momentum
and go. It lets you micro the characters that really matter, the mages.

I've
played all three classes and I have to say that the warrior is easily
the weakest of them all. The warrior class skills just suck. Rogues get
some slick abilities, such as combat movement, coup de grace and
lethality. Mages are mages. If you honestly think that DW rogues are
worse than a 2H warrior, I feel sorry for you.

Sunder arm/armours are 2 hit with critical chance , so  multiply 120 x 4 . 
Yes 2H require subtle "babysit" to get the best out of them , you don't just let them in auto-hit like DW , true , i prefer it myself , more interesting . 

Rogues you talk about  are party dependant single target backstabbers , quite specialized   , it's different , has its charm ,  but i prefer warrior easily  , it's more interesting to play because it's more varied (i loved my 2H Templar/Champion ) , because  i played a cun rogue assassin and got bored of it ,  besides  Rogues are weak against mobs if they aren't strength built  , cun rogue wear only  light armours and daggers only which is limiting  and are only suited to backstabs and auto-hit , that gets very repetitive for me after some time to always do the same thing  , i prefered to play an Archer Rogue  Ranger/Bard  , but then it's more a support character , not a main DPS dealer coupled with anti-mage , anti mob , anti-armor ,  anti boss  guy .

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 06:17 .

[0mar]

janus0891 wrote...

0mar wrote...

Are you playing the same game I am? Sure,
you can hit for 120 damage a hit and a minor stun, but in the same time
frame, a DW rogue with runes and momentum can deal 240 damage. Plus,
you don't need to babysit them to use abilities, just turn on momentum
and go. It lets you micro the characters that really matter, the mages.

I've
played all three classes and I have to say that the warrior is easily
the weakest of them all. The warrior class skills just suck. Rogues get
some slick abilities, such as combat movement, coup de grace and
lethality. Mages are mages. If you honestly think that DW rogues are
worse than a 2H warrior, I feel sorry for you.

Sunder arm/armours are 2 hit with critical chance , so  multiply 120 x 4 . 
Yes 2H require subtle "babysit" to get the best out of them , you don't just let them in auto-hit like DW , true , i prefer it myself , more interesting . 

Rogues you talk about  are party dependant single target backstabbers , quite specialized   , it's different , has its charm ,  but i prefer warrior easily  , it's more interesting to play because it's more varied (i loved my 2H Templar/Champion ) , because  i played a cun rogue assassin and got bored of it ,  besides  Rogues are weak against miobs if they aren't strength built  , they wear light armours and daggers only which is limiting  and are only suited to backstabs and auto-hit , that gets very repetitive for me after some time to always do the same thing  , i prefered to play an Archer Rogue  Ranger/Bard  , but then it's more a support character , not a main DPS dealer coupled with anti-mage , anti mob , anti-armor ,  anti boss  guy .

Mobs are never a problem with properly built mages.  I don't think I've had a single mob actually give me any trouble; they should be in a state of constant stun, one way or another.  Why use a 2H who does decent DPS and debuffs to a single target when you can combine massive crowd control with mages with massive DPS from rogues?  Just with 4-6 spells, you can keep a mob stunned for 20+ seconds, easily.  More than enough time for two DW rogues with momentum to tear them apart.

[Jman5]

what I like about 2-hander is I can have a Tank, DPS, and Crowd Controller all in one package. That's why my current party is three 2h, and wynne healing/support.

[DragonRageGT]

I love two handed and after 3 playthroughs with one, they'll always be my favourite!

There were some nice threads about 2 handers, one is this, I guess:

http://social.biowar...66/index/419830

Now, the amount of dmg a 2 hander can deal per hit is awesome. It is a blast to hit 320 or more with one single hit of a nice greatsword and gain a Heavy Hitter achievement! (I got it with a 277 then later I had my 320). Who cares if other classes are more DPS? I want fun and 2 handers are as much fun to play as any other class, for those who like them.

Check the hit dmg numbers in my zerk/champ solo NM vs a powerful boss (don't if you haven't played past half the game yet)




I am now playing a elven rogue dw and yes, they are a lot of fun too, I'm enjoying it a lot but there is no such a thing like one class is better than other, imho. They all get the job done, they all are fun for those who like that style, (even spellcaster which I particularly dislike playing), it is not healthy to become a radical fanatic and start claiming "my class is the only worthy class... death to all others" and there is no Arena  for us to test our builts against each other (which makes the whole class balance discussion a futile one, although I still would love to meet a dw in an arena with my 2hander!)

[kidnotorious15]

Actually no, DW Warrior > 2H

[janus0891]

Because of the survivability and versatilty OMar ..


Also , in my experience , it's always better to make your party much stronger with hastes , heals , stamina regen , non friendly fire AOE like stinging swarm(which take care of white mobs one by one ) , spell boosts , fire weapons , telekinetics , regens etc.. all cost efficient stuff that make your party an unstoppable machine because it maximizes all the strong point of your main dps dealers

Taking CC Mages + specialized sky high dps fragile Rogues is one way to go , but not as strong because you depend a lot on mana costy AOE spells with friendly fire and rely on your rogues not dying , i don't know which difficulty you play , but it's always a worse choice to rely on a single Mage powerful magic ,and fragile Rogues , rather than on the whole party complementing each other with buffs spells , it will still work and that's the beauty of the game , but i doubt it will be as efficient , by the way 2H have nothing to be ashamed dps wise , by the time your rogue positions himself to backstab , 2H has stunned half the place with holy smite or warcry and killed most white mob with 2H sweep , which makes the tasks a lot easier for Rogue in my party and let my Mage focus his mana on buffing my party and debuffing the ennemy

Modifié par janus0891, 23 décembre 2009 - 06:41 .

[johngaltjr]

Invalidcode wrote...

2H is fun to play and pretty awesome.
Pure damage output though? Cannot compare to DW builds.

hmm, i've played both (close to optimally I believe) and I just don't think this is true.  My min-maxed 2H, on a Sunder Arms, would do 100 on the first wave and 100 on the second wave.  If I critical-hit it would be like 150! Even a DW with all the buffs couldn't do 200 in that amount of time, 150 maybe, but 200 I don't think so.  Those 21 pts that you don't have to put into dex make a big difference.  

[Tirigon]

Funnily enough, 2h plays more like a caster than like a classical, auto-hit based warrior.

Thats why I prefer them. A dualwielder with momentum+double striking is much stronger, at least on early levels when you have not enough stamina to spam talents all the time, but he´s really, really boring.



To make clear why I think dualwielder is stronger here some numbers: Sten on Level 11, all attributes into strength, hits for 40 damage +/-

Dualwielding main char, level 11, attributes split between str and dex, hits for 30 damage with main hand + 20 damage with off hand = 50 damage per hit. Miss chance is slightly higher cause of double striking bug, but attackspeed is (with momentum) more than twice, maybe even 3 times that of sten. Besides, survivability is better cause of defense bonus with dex.

[0mar]

janus0891 wrote...

Because of the survivability and versatilty OMar ..


Also , in my experience , it's always better to make your party much stronger with hastes , heals , stamina regen , non friendly fire AOE like stinging swarm(which take care of white mobs one by one ) , spell boosts , fire weapons , telekinetics , regens etc.. all cost efficient stuff that make your party an unstoppable machine because it maximizes all the strong point of your main dps dealers

Taking CC Mages + specialized sky high dps fragile Rogues is one way to go , but not as strong because you depend a lot on mana costy AOE spells with friendly fire and rely on your rogues not dying , i don't know which difficulty you play , but it's always a worse choice to rely on a single Mage powerful magic ,and fragile Rogues , rather than on the whole party complementing each other with buffs spells , it will still work and that's the beauty of the game , but i doubt it will be as efficient , by the way 2H have nothing to be ashamed dps wise , by the time your rogue positions himself to backstab , 2H has stunned half the place with holy smite or warcry and killed most white mob with 2H sweep , which makes the tasks a lot easier for Rogue in my party and let my Mage focus his mana on buffing my party and debuffing the ennemy

To each his own.  I'm playing Nightmare with 2 mages, 2 DW rogues.  FF is not an issue with strategic placement of spells.

The most important point is having fun.  If you like 2H wielders, then nothing will convince you otherwise, just as I like DW rogues and nothing can really convince me otherwise

[DragonRageGT]

I like both... and had a hell of a great time with my no-mage party in NM with a Two Hander... great vids of that party to remember it too. And I'm playing a DW Rogue with Morrigan now, since I'm romancing her again... (previously it was Leliana's season...hehe)...



It's all fun and games. Anything goes in love and war. Guru Omar wisely said it, as I have too a few times already... The most important point IS having fun. And we can have it with different classes, builts, races, party formation... there is not ONE "must have/be or game is unbeatable and not fun"! Quite the contraire!