419 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

coles4971 wrote...

Bioware's PR is horrendous. They could probably make the best game ever and still say something dumb to alienate people.

Yes, BW's PR has been horrible. They have shot themselves in the foot at every opportunity.

[M0keys]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

M0keys wrote...

the main antagonist is never a "sub-plot" unless he has his own little cutaway story which would classify as a plot branch. A good example is Chauvelin's sub plot in The Scarlet Pimpernel as we follow his attempts to seek out the protagonist of the story who has hidden himself from detection.

And Harbinger was never the main antagonist. He was a Reaper with a role: he stood out, but didn't dominate their functions.

He was the best there was in a story about developing characters and the worlds they come from. And Harbinger said he'd come back and find Shepard, and that it wasn't the end of them. there was character motivation for him to return and have a big role.

but it seems we've come to an impossible empasse. we'll never agree with each other due to fundamentally different view points about how audiences feel about stories, so I'll end this here. I have other things to do today.

cya!

[Dean_the_Young]

M0keys wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

Except Vader is tied to the story. Harby isn't. For the anology to work, Vader would have lead only a small group of troops against the heroes, had one or two appearances and was silenced. Harby hasn't been presented as the main antagonist across the series.. the Reapers, as a whole, have.

which is why I said almost. It's not a 1:1. Vader challenges luke and his allies more than Harbinger when Vader was in empire strikes back, but ME2 had a certain kind of story that didn't need a full-on antagonist like Vader, or The Joker in Dark Knight. It was a story that develolped its characters for the end of the trilogy. all things considered ME3 probably should've had a main antagonist because there is no more room to develop them in the climax, especially if you spend the previous installment doing exactly that. if you start creating new antagonists again, it isn't the climax anymore, and is just an extended 2nd act (or even first!) and not only did Bioware do that at the last possible moment in ME3, they morphed all the antagonism from the whole series into a misguided attempt at tough love.

can you imagine if star wars cut to credits when the millenium falcon left the death star after rescuing leia?

We can imagine any number of irrelevant comparisons. They would still be irrelevant.

Darth Vader, the Joker, and other primary antagonists are primary because they drive the plot. Without them, the conflict would not exist.

Harbinger does not drive the Reapers, and the Reaper threat would continue even without him. If Harbinger had not had a line in Arrival, the plot of it would not have changed: Object Rho still would have been a beacon, and the Alpha Relay still would have needed to be destroyed.

It should tell you something that a lot of people wanted him in that role, though. sometimes a story knows itself better than its writer does.

And sometimes what that tells us is that people are poor readers who don't recognize their own projections.

[Dragoonlordz]

Nothing wrong with what she said. It's common sense. Do not get attached "a plot" that does not exist because that plot was not one that was written, they used a different plot hence the term explore other ideas which means different plots.

Same as with IT plot which was merely a fanfic plotline and not one they were going to use so people should not have got attached meaning putting all their faith in expecting IT to happen as another example of do not get too attached to 'a' plot.

The plots that matter are the plots they use because those are the ones you will see in the game.

Here's a quote from me your free to use. "Mountains out of molehills...", what I would describe the reaction of some in this thread to that tweet.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 19 août 2012 - 10:43 .

[clos]

Arent' RPG games all about the plot? This furthers my belief that Bioware has lost it. They no longer have it.

[Battlepope190]

Drewton wrote...

anorling wrote...


Harby was no more the main villain of the game then Dr Evil was the main villain in Austin Powers. Both were just "spokespersons of the evil horde"

Harbinger never spoke.

You sure about that buddy?

[Dean_the_Young]

M0keys wrote...

He was the best there was in a story about developing characters and the worlds they come from.

That's really not the conceit of the series as a whole. Mass Effect 2 was the only part of the trilogy that focused on character development, and that was particularly squadmate development.

The Reapers have always had themes of mystery and the unknown. Harbinger was no different.

And Harbinger said he'd come back and find Shepard, and that it wasn't the end of them. there was character motivation for him to return and have a big role.

And 'a big role' is a dramatic purpose, not a in-universe description. Characters can have strong roles in a narrative without having strong roles in-universe, just as leaders of a faction can have small roles in a story.

but it seems we've come to an impossible empasse. we'll never agree with each other due to fundamentally different view points about how audiences feel about stories, so I'll end this here. I have other things to do today.

The argument is not over how audiences feel about stories: the argument is about what was actually presented in a story.

[DeathWingKingUltimate]

In end it was like an unfinished business with Harbinger who the Reaper leader or not, got away and i wasn't satisfied.

[XqctaX]

Eloise K wrote...

Don't get too attached to the plot ---> Don't get too attached to the characters ---> Don't get too attached to the franchise--->
Buy something else.

QFT,  this is exactly how i READ what she said.


its a HORRIBLE thing to say about a STORY-driven game. Period.

and if for some reason a person dont want to talk after a statement
isnt that becouse of the meening of that statement and that person not standing up for what they said,
rather than other peoples fault becouse they dissagree.. 

its like a lier saying your a bad person becouse you called them a lier
when accually they are the bad person for lying in the first place
and you simply called that person out on the BS he/she said. 

/facepalm all over


Edit: also that twitter sounds kinda like they wanted to try new things out in the third installment
smart move??? Cus I think it was a STUPID MOVE.

oh and also. Twitter: the place were character die instead of ACUALLY IN THE GAME. more lolz for everyone

/second round of facepalms

Modifié par XqctaX, 19 août 2012 - 11:10 .

[Goneaviking]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Is this supposed to be damage control? Kinda did the opposite...

Well, yes. If you cut the response in half and divorce it from it from it's context it can be used by someone with an axe to grind to incite ill feelings.

[chemiclord]

If you haven't figured out that the fanbase here loves to parse, mangle, then twist the meaning of everything Bioware says to make it sound like an insult to their fans... I don't know what to tell you.

There are fans here who WANT to be pissed off, and they will do everything in their power to justify their rage.

Modifié par chemiclord, 19 août 2012 - 11:27 .

[Goneaviking]

chemiclord wrote...

If you haven't figured out that the fanbase here loves to parse, mangle, then twist the meaning of everything Bioware says to make it sound like an insult to their fans... I don't know what to tell you.

There are fans here who WANT to be pissed off, and they will do everything in their power to justify their rage.

And I enjoy pointing out disingenous arguments, so we're all happy in our discontent.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Why am I not surprised?

[clarkusdarkus]

Mwahahaa so basically you DONT want my interest & money in your series?

[CINCTuchanka]

Oh BSN. It's like you actively seek out ways to be insulted.

She is saying that things change and you shouldn't cling to plots as though they are inviolable, whether a fan or writer.

...now on to your previously scheduled hysterics.

[D24O]

 

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Does this prove IT?

[mass perfection]

gorezeelar wrote...

Remember when video game developers were actually nerds like us, who enjoy wasting time in an incredible intricate world? Now they grow up, and it's all a job to them.

They sure don't know how to do it.

[Dean_the_Young]

XqctaX wrote...

Eloise K wrote...

Don't get too attached to the plot ---> Don't get too attached to the characters ---> Don't get too attached to the franchise--->
Buy something else.

QFT,  this is exactly how i READ what she said.

its a HORRIBLE thing to say about a STORY-driven game. Period.

Then don't say it. She didn't.

and if for some reason a person dont want to talk after a statement
isnt that becouse of the meening of that statement and that person not standing up for what they said,
rather than other peoples fault becouse they dissagree..

Or, in this case, it might be because people are ignorring the obvious context and deliberatly misrepresenting her point.

oh and also. Twitter: the place were character die instead of ACUALLY IN THE GAME. more lolz for everyone

/second round of facepalms

You hitting your head alot explain a good deal about you hitting your head alot.

[ElementL09]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Why am I not surprised?

[Dean_the_Young]

Goneaviking wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Is this supposed to be damage control? Kinda did the opposite...

Well, yes. If you cut the response in half and divorce it from it from it's context it can be used by someone with an axe to grind to incite ill feelings.

Oddly enough, that poster has the most appropriate name.

[JamesFaith]

And some people are still suprised why mods and BW staff don't want to speak with them, when BSN dissected every statement and frantically looking for some vile undertone or hidden insult.

[xsdob]

So did anyone try to see the tweet in context or get a confirmation this was actually legit? Or is believing everything you read on the internet without proof the new norm here?

Op, no offense but thing being the internet and all, I'm going to have to aks for a link to back up what you posted, otherwise it's all bull**** as far as I can tell.

Modifié par xsdob, 20 août 2012 - 12:33 .