419 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

Epic777 wrote...

^^ But if too many concepts are abandoned and newer concepts simply take their place aren't you leading towards a disjointed experience?

Yes, but that wasn't the case here. 

[Jadebaby]

Eterna5 wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

^^ But if too many concepts are abandoned and newer concepts simply take their place aren't you leading towards a disjointed experience?

Yes, but that wasn't the case here. 

orly?

[Hendrik.III]

Eterna5 wrote...

She just said you shouldn't get too attached to all concepts in a story like Mass Effect because they can abandoned later on in the plot to explore more diverse things.

That is what she meant, but that is not what they have done. If you're going to drop a concept, you have to make sure it doesn't hurt the story. They messed up because they wanted to explore more profitable avenues, sacrificing the story in the process.

They shouldn't warn us to get too attached to a plot... they shouldn't be changing their minds halfway a damn good story to create a multiplayer no one asked for.

Modifié par Hendrik.III, 20 août 2012 - 08:24 .

[CptBomBom00]

Arcian wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

"Don't get to attached to a plot"

Then don't get too attached to my money.

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Nice one 

[AngryFrozenWater]

someguy1231 wrote...

"Don't get to attached to a plot"

Then don't get too attached to my money.

Ghehe. You, sir, make too much sense.

[EnvyTB075]

Harby was one of those characters that you hated, liked, laughed at and took seriously all in the same moment.

He was awesome.

[MysticSpace]

Well,still nothing to disprove the IT theory yet.

Modifié par MysticSpace, 20 août 2012 - 09:12 .

[Humakt83]

KENNY4753 wrote...

"don't get too attached to a plot" then what is the reason for playing the games

What is the reason to play Pac-Man, Tetris or chess?

[EnvyTB075]

Humakt83 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

"don't get too attached to a plot" then what is the reason for playing the games

What is the reason to play Pac-Man, Tetris or chess?

Why aren't you playing Gears of War 3 then if plot isn't important?

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 20 août 2012 - 10:35 .

[StElmo]

LucasShark wrote...

"Don't get to attached to the central aspect of a story!"

I feel a great disturbance in the force... as though millions of facepalms all occured at once, followed by silence.

Indeed, though jessica can't really talk for the devs, she doesn't know what they were thinking.

But ultimately, it's not a good thing to say to fans who expected somethign reasonably cohesive. Also, pays to point out that the devs inferred this before the series finished.

[Jayleia]

plfranke wrote...

This was Jessica Merizan's response to me when asked why Harbinger was silent in mass effect 3. What does everyone think about this?

Edit: The full conversation was this
Plfranke: Can you give an answer to why Harbinger never spoke in me3?
Jessica Merizan: we know that's what you hoped to see, but sometimes we have other ideas we want to explore - never get too attached to a plot.

I mean...if you don't want us to get too attached to characters, plots, themes, game mechanics...BW shouldn't get too attached to my money.

Are they trying to blow themselves up?  Or are they just that stupendously bad at PR?

[AmstradHero]

Goneaviking wrote...
Hindsight is a pain. The whole time I was visiting BSN before ME3, pretty regularly since joining up, every time anyone said anything about Harbinger its name was met with a mass of scorn and contempt. Indicating after the fact that they "know that's what you hoped to see" is rather different than "knew what you hoped to see".

Really? I never got that impression. It was more a meme rather than scorn.

Goneaviking wrote...
Harbinger was point man for reapers, but he never really seemed liked a major antagonist, as opposed to The Illusive Man who spent the entire game trying to exert dominance over Shepard: placing him into Cerberus' debt, alienating him from his friends and allies, lying to him and withholding important information.

Having one enemy in your sights doesn't mean you don't have a more dangerous one at your back.

Which of us is right in their assessment is probably subjective, but TIM certainly fulfilled the role of antagonist come ME3.

Except the Illusive Man was a weak and detached antagonist. All of his influence came through the ridiculous character of Kai Leng whose only purpose seemed to be as a book tie-in, because he was of zero interest to anyone who had only played the games. Harbinger was an enemy we could actually oppose, compared to the overblown space ninja and a detached "mastermind" who consistently made idiotic decisions.

I actually did love Harbinger. He regarded Shepard as a valuable specimen and enjoyed trolling him while playing with him via the Collectors, seemed like the Cthulhu equivalent of a kid a microscope and a jar full of grasshoppers. For all his apparent goofiness he was consistently competent in resource management - his first outing was a successful ambush that killed Shepard and very nearly got his speciment home for dissection, after that it's one contingency plan after another.

In part 3 we can infer Harbinger's influence but never really see it. He's not chasing Shepard to fulfill some grudge over the Collector Base or the Alpha Relay like some petty juvenile, but he has apparently been talking to his friends about the worthy gamesmanship of his pet human. 

Except the whole Cthulu thing went out the window when the Reapers were explained with a ridiculously common science fiction idea. Furthermore, Harbinger focuses on Shepard exclusively in ME2 and also the arrival DLC. Harbinger believes Shepard is important. He was trying to get the collectors to get Shepard's body. Shepard is a rallying point for the entire galaxy. If Harbinger isn't focussing on Shepard, then it's ignoring the biggest threat the Reapers have faced to date. Harbinger isn't presented as that stupid.

Meanwhile we do get a long awaited direct confrontation with the Illusive Man. After trying to control us all over ME2, and to thwart us all of ME3 he finally gets his. Which was damned satisfying for someone who had always regarded him as the true villain of part 2.

I didn't care, and I never expected a showdown with The Illusive Man to be anything more than either a showdown with controller Reaper forces or a fairly black and white dialogue. I got the latter. The fact that Anderson got dragged into it added a little bit more than I expected, but overall it just felt like a repeat of talking down Saren in ME1. I shouldn't reach the culmination of a trilogy with the thought "oh, that again", which was exactly what I got.  The Illusive Man was a plot enabler in ME2 and did nothing of major interest in ME3 except serve to explore indoctrination in a way that just felt like a repeat of the first game.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 20 août 2012 - 10:18 .

[NM_Che56]

Stating the obvious at this point.

I wouldn't rule out more harbinger in DLC

Modifié par Master Che, 20 août 2012 - 10:24 .

[plfranke]

@Amstrad Hero
It's funny you mention that about Kai Leng. I've never read any of the books and know little about them. I did know of Kai Leng though from seeing his name mentioned in the forums so I thought it was cool to see him show up. However, I can see as someone who has played the games but knows nothing about the books and isn't on these forums would wonder who the hell he is. Hahaha that's kind of funny to think about actually.

[Simotech]

meh

[KENNY4753]

Humakt83 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

"don't get too attached to a plot" then what is the reason for playing the games

What is the reason to play Pac-Man, Tetris or chess?

The only plot those games have are
Pac-Man- run away from ghost and eat white balls
Chess-kill the other player's king and anything that stands in your way
Tetris- fit these different shapes together

Those games aren't meant to have a plot like RPG games

[EnvyTB075]

plfranke wrote...

@Amstrad Hero
It's funny you mention that about Kai Leng. I've never read any of the books and know little about them. I did know of Kai Leng though from seeing his name mentioned in the forums so I thought it was cool to see him show up. However, I can see as someone who has played the games but knows nothing about the books and isn't on these forums would wonder who the hell he is. Hahaha that's kind of funny to think about actually.

I also hate the fact that all Shep has to do is merely mention a Cerberus assassin and Anderson knows exactly who it is. What is KL the only assassin Cerberus has ever, and will ever, have on demand at any time.

"Oh and there was also this assassin guy"
"Jubal Early"
"No actually, the Alliance Operative guy with no name"
"....oh"

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 20 août 2012 - 10:40 .

[plfranke]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

plfranke wrote...

@Amstrad Hero
It's funny you mention that about Kai Leng. I've never read any of the books and know little about them. I did know of Kai Leng though from seeing his name mentioned in the forums so I thought it was cool to see him show up. However, I can see as someone who has played the games but knows nothing about the books and isn't on these forums would wonder who the hell he is. Hahaha that's kind of funny to think about actually.

I also hate the fact that all Shep has to do is merely mention a Cerberus assassin and Anderson knows exactly who it is. What is KL the only assassin Cerberus has ever, and will ever, have on demand?

hahaha! I didn't even think about that. good catch!

[StElmo]

KENNY4753 wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

"don't get too attached to a plot" then what is the reason for playing the games

What is the reason to play Pac-Man, Tetris or chess?

The only plot those games have are
Pac-Man- run away from ghost and eat white balls
Chess-kill the other player's king and anything that stands in your way
Tetris- fit these different shapes together

Those games aren't meant to have a plot like RPG games

Simply put, if your gonna parade around like your game has a great story, don't blame fans when they get pissed off when you take it away from them.

PAC MAN never talked about greating a great narrative like other game compaies have...

[DirtySHISN0]

Is she saying i shouldn't be distraught about this crime of a game ME3(enough to not buy sequels)
or unattached enough to not bother with the series in the first place?

WHUT.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 20 août 2012 - 10:50 .

[Helios969]

And people wonder why BW employees have largely gone quiet...

[EnvyTB075]

Helios969 wrote...

And people wonder why BW employees have largely gone quiet...

Doesn't stop BIS from responding, and they receive hate over far far far more trivial things.

[M920CAIN]

Without no plot you have no sales, without sales you might as well be unemployed!
We have plot, more than you know!

or

Without no plot you have no art, without art you might as well cut the bull**** with artistict integrity!
We have artistic integrity, more than you think!

[Dean_the_Young]

Hendrik.III wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

She just said you shouldn't get too attached to all concepts in a story like Mass Effect because they can abandoned later on in the plot to explore more diverse things.

That is what she meant, but that is not what they have done. If you're going to drop a concept, you have to make sure it doesn't hurt the story. They messed up because they wanted to explore more profitable avenues, sacrificing the story in the process.

Hm? Mass Effect 2 was a major success.

They shouldn't warn us to get too attached to a plot...

You shouldn't get too attached to anything. Too attached, by definition, is excessive.

they shouldn't be changing their minds halfway a damn good story to create a multiplayer no one asked for.

Except multiplayer wasn't responsible for the the story's problems. It not only was made by an entirely different team, but it doesn't use the story-related resources of writers, artists, and plot creation.

As for 'no one asked for', no one was asking for the character-focus that ME2 got, but that was a winning formula. Multiplayer likewise has been a success, with many people enjoying it.

If Bioware only created what people were asking for, they never would have moved beyond their first release. Mass Effect never would have been created.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 20 août 2012 - 11:16 .

[Dean_the_Young]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Is she saying i shouldn't be distraught about this crime of a game ME3(enough to not buy sequels)
or unattached enough to not bother with the series in the first place?

WHUT.

No. That is not what she is saying at all.