419 réponses à ce sujet

[KENNY4753]

General Slotts wrote...

The reapers where turned into a joke, how could they make Harbinger a convincing antagonist under those circumstances.

Simple. By not having those circumstances

[blueumi]

no wonder biowares games are getting worse they don't care anymore

[Dean_the_Young]

LucasShark wrote...

Um...:
- Arrival, dialogue and visuals

Does not claim Harbinger leads the Reapers.

- The conclusion of ME2

Only establishes that Harbinger controlled the Collector General, who was killed.

- the reveal that the collector general wasn't actually in charge

Which does not change that Harbinger's distinguishing role was ended.

ME3:
- The intro mission

Does not not claim Harbinger is the leader.

- The final mission

Does not claim Harbinger is the leader.

- The mother sodding codex entry

Hazily, without concrete claims or further establishment, hypothesizes Harbinger as a non-unique role.

[Peranor]

LucasShark wrote...

"Don't get to attached to the central aspect of a story!"

I feel a great disturbance in the force... as though millions of facepalms all occured at once, followed by silence.

Lol 

[Conniving_Eagle]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Harbinger showed every trait of being the main bad guy for ME3, especially after Arrival

Indeed

Really? I thought it was Kai Leng

[Mr.House]

R3MUS wrote...

Well, here is my classic reaction to no Harbinger conversation/fight in ME3:



Kinda sums it all up.

Alot of us felt this way, so you're not alone.

[plfranke]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

M0keys wrote...

but he felt like the leader,

'Felt' is not the same thing as 'was claimed to be.'

People projected a role onto Harbinger that was never claimed. That's their fault, and it isn't Bioware's responsibility to address a claim they never made.

people like to have bad guys if they're established as being powerful and threatening... little nitpicky canon things can cease to matter if your story still works on an emotional level like that

Mass Effect 3 hardly lacks for malevolent forces and bad guys.

From the codex "The Reaper called Harbinger is believed to be the oldest and largest in the Reaper armada."
"Alliance intelligence has tentatively identified Harbinger as one of the Reapers leading the attack on Earth." This combined with all the conversations and him being shown in the front at the end of mass effect 2 gives a lot of room to assign him the role of leader.

[tholloway93]

i imagine she means 'things can change'

[KENNY4753]

blueumi wrote...

no wonder biowares games are getting worse they don't care anymore

Exactly EA convinced them that money is what matters not fans

[AresKeith]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Harbinger showed every trait of being the main bad guy for ME3, especially after Arrival

Indeed

Really? I thought it was Kai Leng

we already know Kai Leng was meant to be Bane lol

[essarr71]

M0keys wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

M0keys wrote...

But we needed a good bad guy if there was going to be one.

The Reapers already provide one as a whole, because the Reapers are a threat as a whole.

And for a foe with a face, the Illusive Man and Cerberus are pretty obvious.

but Illusive Man was simplified to the point of being an ineffectual lackey instead of a complex foe, and was only used as a cheat to impede player progress. he was never really used to challenge the player's endurance and beliefs like a true antagonist.

That doesn't mean he wasn't the foe with a face.  Just because it was poorly done doesn't mean it wasn't done.

[JPR1964]

LucasShark wrote...

"Don't get to attached to the central aspect of a story!"

I feel a great disturbance in the force... as though millions of facepalms all occured at once, followed by silence.

Nice one!

JPR out

[D24O]

Malanek999 wrote...

When you pick refuse isn't it is Harbinger who utters "So be it"? This strongly hints that Harbinger was the star child.

Prove IT?

[essarr71]

plfranke wrote...

From the codex "The Reaper called Harbinger is believed to be the oldest and largest in the Reaper armada."
"Alliance intelligence has tentatively identified Harbinger as one of the Reapers leading the attack on Earth." This combined with all the conversations and him being shown in the front at the end of mass effect 2 gives a lot of room to assign him the role of leader.

The codex also says the Citadel was built by Protheans. 

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]Ticonderoga117 wrote...


"Dark Energy is killing this star."
"The scientists are worried about Dark Energy."
"The Collectors had lots of Dark Energy readings."
"I'm now working on something dealing with Dark Energy."
*Game shows Shepard with datapad with Reaper data*
"Prepare for our Arrival!"
"Shepard, you're going to have to come in and face the music."
*The Collector Base decision is the BIG decision of the game.*
[/quote]And... where does this prove that ME3 didn't utilize foreshadowing at all?

You seem to be confusing not using all potential subplots with a lack of using any.

[/quote]
So Dark Energy, the Collector Base, and the trial, all of which got hit in the head by Mac Walters because "Pffft. Don't get attached to things we've done!".
[/quote]The absurdity of the root of all evil on Mac is rather petty and narrowsighted of you.

[LucasShark]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Um...:
- Arrival, dialogue and visuals

Does not claim Harbinger leads the Reapers.

- The conclusion of ME2

Only establishes that Harbinger controlled the Collector General, who was killed.

- the reveal that the collector general wasn't actually in charge

Which does not change that Harbinger's distinguishing role was ended.

ME3:
- The intro mission

Does not not claim Harbinger is the leader.

- The final mission

Does not claim Harbinger is the leader.

- The mother sodding codex entry

Hazily, without concrete claims or further establishment, hypothesizes Harbinger as a non-unique role.

Oh for the love of....

We put this big guy on a pedestal, a statue of him, made of gold with a massive neon sign over him and an engraved nameplate in the plinth.

Why?

****s and giggles!

WHY THE HELL would you put 2 and a half games worth of framing into building him up if he's not important afterall!?

James bond movie: guy sitting behind a desk with sinister lighting, wearing a suit stroking a cat.  I'm going to put money on him being somewhat important.

[Conniving_Eagle]

AresKeith wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Harbinger showed every trait of being the main bad guy for ME3, especially after Arrival

Indeed

Really? I thought it was Kai Leng

we already know Kai Leng was meant to be Bane lol

They need to redo the Batman trailer with Mass Effect lol.

Udina: What are you?
Kai Leng: I'm Cerberus' reckoning.

Shepard: Why didn't you just kill me?
Kai Leng: When Thessia is ashes... then you have my permission to die.

Kai Leng: Come to die with your crew?
Shepard: No, I came to stop you.

*Kai Leng grabs shepard out of his tactical cloak*

And so on

[Dean_the_Young]

essarr71 wrote...

plfranke wrote...

@Dean he was at the very least the face of the primary antogonist, and he was set up to be the leader of the Reapers when you see him in front when they're flying towards Earth, I really don't see how anyone could have not believed he was the leader.
 

Yet your argument can be dismissed with, "he never said he was their leader."  Why is this so hard to understand?  The leader of the reapers was revealed.. maybe.. who can make sense of it.  It's a horrible move plotwise.  But it doesn't break anything regarding the pecking order.  

Indeed.

In so much as the Reapers have ever claimed a leader, though that's a poor term for it, the only one claimed to be such was the Catalyst.

[Jamie9]

Malanek999 wrote...

When you pick refuse isn't it is Harbinger who utters "So be it"? This strongly hints that Harbinger was the star child.

No, it was the Catalyst. Just a deeper voice, to portray that he is angry.

[blueumi]

KENNY4753 wrote...

blueumi wrote...

no wonder biowares games are getting worse they don't care anymore

Exactly EA convinced them that money is what matters not fans

someone should tell them fans equal money

[AresKeith]

blueumi wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

blueumi wrote...

no wonder biowares games are getting worse they don't care anymore

Exactly EA convinced them that money is what matters not fans

someone should tell them fans equal money

that would be Rockstar and Ubisoft

[killdozer9211]

All this silly arguing.
She's saying "Don't get so hung up on mass effect 3! We have so many side stories and sequels and brand new series to sell you!"

[Ticonderoga117]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
And... where does this prove that ME3 didn't utilize foreshadowing at all?

All of that was foreshadowed, and then completely and utterly dropped.

You seem to be confusing not using all potential subplots with a lack of using any.

The absurdity of the root of all evil on Mac is rather petty and narrowsighted of you.

Well then tell me who else would decide "Yeah, you know all that work we did in ME2 and that big DLC? Let's scrap it and do something different."

[essarr71]

LucasShark wrote...

Oh for the love of....

We put this big guy on a pedestal, a statue of him, made of gold with a massive neon sign over him and an engraved nameplate in the plinth.

Why?

****s and giggles!

WHY THE HELL would you put 2 and a half games worth of framing into building him up if he's not important afterall!?

James bond movie: guy sitting behind a desk with sinister lighting, wearing a suit stroking a cat.  I'm going to put money on him being somewhat important.

Harby was in ME1?  Hell, the collectors are barely in 2.  Is Harby important?  Sure.  He's the only Reaper we know at the start of 3.  Are people making a bigger deal out of him than necessary?  Oh yeah.

[KENNY4753]

blueumi wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

blueumi wrote...

no wonder biowares games are getting worse they don't care anymore

Exactly EA convinced them that money is what matters not fans

someone should tell them fans equal money

Do you want to give it a try? A lot of people already have lol