251 réponses à ce sujet

[Kidd]

Morrigan's child could either be,

- The OGB (fathered by the Warden, Alistair or Loghain)
- Her love child (fathered by a romanced Warden who did not perform the dark ritual)
- A baby she took in/gave birth to off screen with a to us so far unknown father (for those who denied the DR and did not romance her)

Either way the baby could factor into her plot, with variance in the script of just how much the child could be capable of depending on how he was conceived. Methinks this could allow the OGB to show up and be important while using a realistic amount of resources for choice and consequence.

What say you, BSN? =)

[New Kid]

I think they will do something like this. If it's handled well enough i will be satisfied!
I'm sure a lot of people will hate it though lol

[Dutchess]

As long as they don't simply retcon the OGB, I'm perfectly fine with Morrigan having a child. Sounds awesome.

[ElitePinecone]

If it had an adequate explanation, sure - Morrigan having a normal child is perfectly possible, though I'd wonder why it's important game-wise.

But if there's a weird magic excuse as to why she has an OGB regardless of player choice - "oh she did a spell and captured it anyway kthxbai" - it'd be pretty frustrating and annoying.

At the very least it'd mean there was no plan for Morrigan's/the baby's role going forward post-DAO, and they'd shove it in as a plot element just because players are making noise about it.

[Urzon]

Mommy!BAMF!Morrigan FTW!!!!!

.....So no, i wouldn't feel cheated.

Modifié par Urzon, 20 août 2012 - 11:05 .

[Cultist]

BSN is used to such things from BioWare.

[Androme]

Considering she's up to something rather big, I'd say it's important that the OGB becomes canon, just like Leliana. I bet BioWare regrets giving us choice in certain situations since they bear such weight with them later on, such as killing off Wynne and Leliana or refusing Morrigans offer.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Morrigan's child could either be,

- The OGB (fathered by the Warden, Alistair or Loghain)
- Her love child (fathered by a romanced Warden who did not perform the dark ritual)
- A baby she took in/gave birth to off screen with a to us so far unknown father (for those who denied the DR and did not romance her)

Either way the baby could factor into her plot, with variance in the script of just how much the child could be capable of depending on how he was conceived. Methinks this could allow the OGB to show up and be important while using a realistic amount of resources for choice and consequence.

What say you, BSN? =)

"BSN", "feel cheated".

Lol.

But assuming the script, story and gameplay content branches enough to paint the plot thread in a variety of ways according to how the OGB was conceived, I personally don't see the issue.

Although, without said branching, it could end up as another Rachni Queen situation.

[Yrkoon]

I think any of those options would be great regardless of what we did or didn't do in Origins. I'd also be fine with a more simple "Morrigan vs. Flemeth" conflict  which doesn't involve any OGB/lovechild/son.

The Morrigan story is such a great one in the Dragon age universe. IMO it surpasses all the others.  It's heads and shoulders above everything else in both games.   It would be a travesty if they just left it dangling/unfinished  just so they could pursue  some  other plot, like the chantry vs. Mage circles tripe (which doesn't interest me in the slightest)

Modifié par Yrkoon, 20 août 2012 - 11:34 .

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I'd almost prefer they made OGB canon. It would ****** off many people but it's the best storyline going forward, imo.

[BomimoDK]

Androme wrote...

Considering she's up to something rather big, I'd say it's important that the OGB becomes canon, just like Leliana. I bet BioWare regrets giving us choice in certain situations since they bear such weight with them later on, such as killing off Wynne and Leliana or refusing Morrigans offer.

It's actually funny, because people didn't bat an eye when Drizzt returned in BG2 after you violently burdered him in the first. Or that you started off with the canon party even if you finished with another and so on. I guess it's this generation of CoD Kids. So entitled...

[cogsandcurls]

I'm sure it would be unpopular with a lot of people, but speaking as some who has never romanced Morrigan OR Done the Dark Ritual....I would be completely okay with with Morrigan somehow having the OGB anyway if the writers need to do it to get the plot to go where they want it to go. As long as it was adequately explained and not handwaved, I'm happy - all I'd need was a quick "I was secretly hanging around the top of Drakon tower when you killed the Archdemon and found a way to keep the soul anyway, because I have magic" (although better written than that, obviously). As long as the game acknowledges in dialogue that I didn't do the DR and that the OGB is a result of some other circumstance, I'm happy.

[Fast Jimmy]

I would not feel insulted in the least. But, then again, I am big advocate of doing away with import flags and carrying over choice from game to game altogether. They should give us tons and tons of choices in games (like DA:O on steroids, not like DA2) and then give us varied endings that can reflect tons of diffferent choices (again, like DA:O on steroids, not DA2's anemic ending). Choices could possibly be carried over into DLC and expansions for said base game.

Then, when it comes time to make the sequel, they take a page from Fallout's book and set a canon of what events happened in previous games.

It allows the writers to give us all sorts of choices, consequences and outcomes without having to worry about maintaining a world where too much (or any, in this case) custom content would need to be made based on a decision from a previous game. I know that's not what many fans want, but its just going to result in more DA2-ness, where no choice you make affects the plot in the least, very few things are imported in significant ways, and the endings will be cookie-cutter, generically the same.

DA2's choice and ending scenario was not a "mistake" but rather a symptom of the complete unsustainability of imported/prior game choices.

[Kidd]

ElitePinecone wrote...

If it had an adequate explanation, sure - Morrigan having a normal child is perfectly possible, though I'd wonder why it's important game-wise.

Being a son of Morrigan's (and possibly fathered by a powerful mage as well), he'd still be a strong mage raised under Morrigan's tutoring. That Morrigan could have use for him even if he didn't carry the soul of an old god isn't far-fetched imho.

No need to make her get the soul of an old god out of nowhere to make the son have plot relevance, though his abilities may differ depending on his origins.

CrustyBot wrote...

Although, without said branching, it could end up as another Rachni Queen situation.

Yeah I'd rather not have a second Rachni Queen. I'm not one of those who say "your choices don't matter" for ME3 at all, but the handling of the queen was extremely weak.

[berelinde]

I don't really care what they do with that plot line.

[Jerrybnsn]

It's one of my hopes for the continuation of the series. That and actually feeling important again in the world of Thedas.

[Darth Wraith]

I think a chunk of BSN is going to feel cheated and butthurt no matter what BioWare does in DA3. It has turned into a contest of sorts, "my outrage is greater than your outrage".

[Fast Jimmy]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

It's one of my hopes for the continuation of the series. That and actually feeling important again in the world of Thedas.

Feeling important can only come about with choices. 

Choices invariably lead to different outcomes.

Different outcomes are impossible to manage in future games (or, at least, that is what Bioware has shown between DA2's railroading or handwaving of Origins and with ME3's handling of so many things, personified by the Rachni Queen).

Therefore, I believe the only way Bioware can go back to us being important in a way that has actual impact on the plot and the world is for them to no longer be constrained about "if I let the player make this choice, how will we ever make the next game in the series reflect this without making two totally separate games?" The only way forward for Bioware is to remove import flags, remove interactive comics that allow a myriad of choices, remove any sort of choice import factor at all. 

Then we could have the OGB story given justice. Then we could have an interaction with the Dwarves without having to make two different king scenes (or even two different Orzammar's, given some of the outcomes of choosing a king). They could make important aspects of the lore, like whether or not the Anvil is saved (and, hence, if the Dwarves have an army of iron golems at their beck and call). They could have the Chantry actually react to the uncovering of the Urn of Sacred Ashes, one of the most important religious artifacts in the history of Thedas, which would only lend credence to any of their claims, since it is indeed magical. They could do something with Allistair/Anora/Both that was actually worth the time of day. They could show Loghain commanding the Wardens (or showing his statue commissioned by Anora in Denerim, if that's how they wanted to design it).

I've given plot ideas before that would be very interesting in light of the Mage/Templar War in DA3 that could be awesome, but hinge on some aspect of DA:O being true for everyone. Since Bioware has to take into account everyone's possible choices from previous games, but don't want to commit to making custom content like The Witcher 2 did, then its going to result in Rachni Queen's left and right. If they couldn't make you feel like choice mattered in ME3, which was a planned trilogy, had the same continuing character and reoccuring companions and a mindset from the developers to go "all out" in the end of the trilogy to make custom content and prior choices feel like they really matter... then there is no hope for the model.

ME3 was the best shot at anyone feeling like Bioware wouldn't railroad, lampshade or handwave choices and it failed in that regard, in my opinion. Sure, we have one line comments, or scenes with people like Conrad Verner, but ulitmately the biggest questions, the biggest "scratch your head and think this through" moments of the ME series were reduced to "doesn't matter" or just a different number for your EMS (which, conversely, doesn't matter in the least, either). The Geth Rewrite, the Collector Base, the Rachni, Tali's Trial/Quarian discussion of war, agreeing with/arguing with TIM and the concepts of Cereberus, the Council being saved/killed, Anderson/Udina as councilor, anyone you saved on the Suicide Mission of ME2 having any impact to anything, period, saving/destroying the Genophage cure... I could go on. All wind up starting in ME3 in the exact same spot as any or no choice (if you skipped certain missions). If the goal of ME3 at the outset of development was to make these choices feel big and important, then there is no hope for BIoware to succeed with this model.

Its best for everyone involved if they move to a widely divergent model in game, but then set a canon of things that happened when they go to make a sequel. The resources wasted to make these references are monumental, and they still wind up coming off as cheap or flat. If, instead, these resources were used to make custom content and wide chocies were made and actually impacted the game at hand, instead of having to worry about future installments, then I think the experience for everyone would be much, MUCH better.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 20 août 2012 - 12:33 .

[Jerrybnsn]

^Yeah. All your choices in the first two games of ME ended up not having any consequence in the last game. You just get a different character playing the same scene out. That was a let down. But as for DA3, there really wasn't anything in DA2 that could be thought of as consequntial to importing over. I sided with the mages and the templars and the game ends both in the same way.

So that's why it comes down to the consequences for your decisions in the first DA game as being a big part in the DA3 story.  DA2 really never came off as more than just a diversion spin-off game.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 août 2012 - 12:44 .

[Sejborg]

There are lots of ways for Morrigan to get a baby. But there is only way the baby can have the soul of an old god inside it. So that player choice (Dark Ritual) needs to be accepted.

[Gibb_Shepard]

I want it to be canon. Throw in a little dialogue reference as to how the OGB was conceived, and make that **** a main plot line.

[Firky]

Son? But if Morrigan had a daughter, that would be way cooler. Like, there's the whole Flemeth daughter thing to frame her relationship with a wee lass.

[Jerrybnsn]

Sejborg wrote...

There are lots of ways for Morrigan to get a baby. But there is only way the baby can have the soul of an old god inside it. So that player choice (Dark Ritual) needs to be accepted.

Don't forget that they added more lore into the mix with "those of the dragon blood" in the last Dark Horse comic.  The OGB would be way more powerful if Alistair was the father.

[Fast Jimmy]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

^Yeah. All your choices in the first two games of ME ended up not having any consequence in the last game. You just get a different character playing the same scene out. That was a let down. But as for DA3, there really wasn't anything in DA2 that could be thought of as consequntial to importing over. I sided with the mages and the templars and the game ends both in the same way.

So that's why it comes down to the consequences for your decisions in the first DA game as being a big part in the DA3 story.  DA2 really never came off as more than just a diversion spin-off game.

But don't you see? DA2 was the way it was, as a one-way train through the Bioware Railroad Express because they DIDN'T want to give you the same choices as DA:O. They spent a good portion of their production time accounting for all the flags from DA:O and its DLC, and it still wound up only giving us small, bland side quests or a few extra lines of dialogue.

They gave DA2 no impactful choices BECAUSE they were worried about import flags. They were struggling to keep up with (and still haven't reflected) all the choices from DA:O. DA2 was so railroaded in an attempt to prevent this from happening again. I have no doubt in my mind that DA3 will be better in this regard, based on dev comments so far, but at the same time... its not going to be as good as the choices in DA:O. Period. Its just not. You are not going to get to pick a king, you are not going to be able to kill any of your companions (you are not going to be able to even get rid of them), you are not going to be able to pick a side in Mage/Templar (or, if you do, it will still be the end game no matter what), you are not going to be able to do anything that affects the world of Thedas at all... because then you would have two worlds to deal with. And that's just for one choice. For every major choice you can make, there are two different worlds.

The boons in DA:O are a joke now, a complete lack of realistic impact on the world, despite it allowing the Circle in Ferelden to be free, or for the Dalish to have a homeland, or for the Dwarves to push back the Darkspawn. All of these result in very different worlds, worlds where very different possibilities are in play. But rather than address any of them, Bioware invalidated all of them.

THAT'S what imported choice gives you. Railroading, handwaving or just outright ignoring. Anders and Justice could both be dead after Awakenings. Yet a Justice-Possessed-Anders is what we get in DA2. The reason? "It could have happened differently than what the Warden perceived it to be, or it could have happened outside of what the Warden saw." Same thing for Leliana. If they're going to pick and choose which parts become canon anyway (and only supply a lame cop-out like "well, you don't know, things could have happened this way regardless"), then why even bother continuing with the half-hearted and totally unconvincing illusion? If you can tell better stories, utilize better resources and give real choices by just getting rid of one aspect of the game, importing/choice carryover, then why not do it? 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 20 août 2012 - 01:09 .