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Would BSN feel cheated if Morrigan had a son in DA3 regardless of choice?


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#226
Emzamination

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Jerrybnsn wrote...

Emzamination wrote...


Your
wardens dead too, laidlaw announced over twitter that it was highly
unlikely they'd bring the warden and hawke back because they didn't feel
they could do our personal warden's service.


"Don't tell me it can't be done, tell me how are we going to do it."

Simple. 
Go back to the better artstyle of DA Origins and make the Warden's
appearence and interaction as a silent protagonist for a brief period. 
Win-win!


As long as it allows the warden to appear, I'm up for anything =]



Yrkoon wrote...

If you did the US, you most certainly DID get quite the emotional "goodbye" scene at the end of Origins. Not sure why we'd need a second one.


It would be more accurate to say your companions got an emotional goodbye, no? The warden never got the chance to say goodbye (with the exception of morrigan) to the LI before executing the US

#227
Yrkoon

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It would be more accurate to say your companions got an emotional goodbye, no? The warden never got the chance to say goodbye (with the exception of morrigan) to the LI before executing the US

Sure he did.  You get a cutscene at the Denerim gates where the Warden gets a moment to exchange comments/goodbyes/final thoughts with each and every one of his companions.  Even Dog.

That, plus  absorbing the Archdemon's soul, plus the funeral at the end,  is the very definition of Story Closure.  Anything more would constitute something other than Closure.  It would constitute  re-opening something that was already closed

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 août 2012 - 01:40 .


#228
Jerrybnsn

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I told Dog to be a good boy knowing that I was never coming back. He whined. I fought back the tears. Saying goodbye to everyone was much more emotional knowing that you weren't suppose to be coming back.

Not sure why some people want to try another type of emotional moment with their DEAD Warden. Respect the player agency and just leave the DEAD Warden alone in DAIII. Have all the extra gameplay with the ALIVE Warden that you want.

#229
Mark of the Dragon

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I would feel cheated, yes. When I make a choice I want it to effect the future of my game. I dont want some write off that allows it to happen anyway. Do I want the Dark Ritual to impact future games? yes. THis exact reason is why Biowares "choices" within there games never feel like real choices. Im happy to hear Gaider confirm that it is MY choice that will effect how my game plays out.

#230
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That suits me just fine. I don't care about import choices anyway. Most games don't have them, I don't need them, and I think Bioware would have an easier time of it if they got rid of them.

#231
The Elite Elite

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I'd be a bit annoyed at first, but ultimately I think I'd be OK with it. Let's face it, if every single choice we can make gets carried over to each future game, pretty soon there will be way too many choices to import. With all these different choices to take into account each time we get to see our choice imported, it's going to have some trivial reference or difference in the game.

We already see this with plenty of the imports in DA2 and with ME2 & ME3. We already see from Awakening that the sacrificing the Warden choice is thrown out the window. (Unless you start with an Orlesian Warden, in which case you just get a BioWare established Origins canon anyway) Ultimately, for the sake of story, some decisions will have to be made the "real" choice by BioWare.

#232
brushyourteeth

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Jerrybnsn wrote...

I told Dog to be a good boy knowing that I was never coming back. He whined. I fought back the tears. Saying goodbye to everyone was much more emotional knowing that you weren't suppose to be coming back.

Not sure why some people want to try another type of emotional moment with their DEAD Warden. Respect the player agency and just leave the DEAD Warden alone in DAIII. Have all the extra gameplay with the ALIVE Warden that you want.


Oh man - I agree.

When I miss the Warden, I go back and re-play her. Simple. Image IPB

I think we all miss our Warden because we're used to following a single protagonist in a game series, and because DA:O was basically lightning in a bottle and, for probably most of us, a much better experience than DAII. Blame Hawke for that if you want, but bringing the Warden back isn't necessarily going to bring back that magic. It's actually probably going to sour your memory of him/her forever.

I'd love to hear from NPC's or lost correspondences what she's been up to lately, but I'll pass on playing her.

#233
TEWR

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There are ways that Morrigan could get the Old God's soul *without* having the Warden magically appear alive -- meaning the Warden would still be dead, but Morrigan would still have an OGB through different means.

#234
brushyourteeth

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

There are ways that Morrigan could get the Old God's soul *without* having the Warden magically appear alive -- meaning the Warden would still be dead, but Morrigan would still have an OGB through different means.

How so, out of curiosity? I mean, I'm completely of the opinion that if Morrigan wants something she'll find a way to get it. But what peole are saying is that if your Warden died, the only logical reason is that he/she was joined to the Archdemon in its death. So effectively, if the Old God's soul was set free, the Warden would have to be alive.

I have to admit, they have a point. Unless the Wardens have been wrong all along in thinking that the Archdemon's essence is destroyed upon its death (which could explain other possible OG's out there), I don't see how that could work.

#235
BioFan (Official)

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If they really wanted it, there would be plot ways around it. For starters,

easy: Somehow Riordan's swimmers worked. 

easy: she made some random person that night become a warden, then ...

easy: replace OGB with someone else (that wouldn't be nearly as epic) in the part that he shows up

harder: have Morrigan reappear during the next blight and perform the ritual that time. (but then OGB would appear much, MUCH later)



but honestly, i don't want the OGB to become some minor little bloop because of this. I want him to be a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR character 

Modifié par Ericander77, 26 août 2012 - 05:38 .


#236
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brushyourteeth wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

I told Dog to be a good boy knowing that I was never coming back. He whined. I fought back the tears. Saying goodbye to everyone was much more emotional knowing that you weren't suppose to be coming back.

Not sure why some people want to try another type of emotional moment with their DEAD Warden. Respect the player agency and just leave the DEAD Warden alone in DAIII. Have all the extra gameplay with the ALIVE Warden that you want.


Oh man - I agree.

When I miss the Warden, I go back and re-play her. Simple. Image IPB

I think we all miss our Warden because we're used to following a single protagonist in a game series, and because DA:O was basically lightning in a bottle and, for probably most of us, a much better experience than DAII. Blame Hawke for that if you want, but bringing the Warden back isn't necessarily going to bring back that magic. It's actually probably going to sour your memory of him/her forever.

I'd love to hear from NPC's or lost correspondences what she's been up to lately, but I'll pass on playing her.



Let's hope quizzy (short for inqisitor) is at least half as awesome as the warden. :wizard:

#237
ElvaliaRavenHart

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Jerrybnsn wrote...

I told Dog to be a good boy knowing that I was never coming back. He whined. I fought back the tears. Saying goodbye to everyone was much more emotional knowing that you weren't suppose to be coming back.

Not sure why some people want to try another type of emotional moment with their DEAD Warden. Respect the player agency and just leave the DEAD Warden alone in DAIII. Have all the extra gameplay with the ALIVE Warden that you want.



100% agree!  Image IPB

#238
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Jerrybnsn wrote...

Firky wrote...

Son? But if Morrigan had a daughter, that would be way cooler. :P Like, there's the whole Flemeth daughter thing to frame her relationship with a wee lass.


I actually thought that the OGB would be a girl, because the OldGod Dragon's name was Urthemiel which means "beauty".  Well, I guess that's one for the ladies.


SEXY OGB :devil:
Image IPB 

Yeah ladies, we won this one. 

Modifié par Ericander77, 26 août 2012 - 05:55 .


#239
TEWR

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brushyourteeth wrote...

How so, out of curiosity? I mean, I'm completely of the opinion that if Morrigan wants something she'll find a way to get it.


Bear in mind it's simply my own fanfic-like musings on the matter with little DA lore/evidence to back it up. Still, I'd like to think it's both plausible and wouldn't cause too much controversy if it was done.

As you said, Morrigan is the type of person to really go after something she wants. I can't see her or Flemeth for that matter not having some sort of contingency plan to ensure they got an OGB, considering Flemeth's whole MO we've seen so far -- one of them anyway -- centers on preserving Dragons. For Flemeth to have only told Morrigan of one method of gaining an Old God's soul seems.... unbelievable, given what happens in Silent Grove -- unless she did so on purpose, as I talk about at the bottom of this snippet.

I'm also hesitant to believe that the Old God's soul is destroyed simply because Riordan says so. Matters of the soul are not within the purview of humanity. And besides, the Old Gods are significantly more powerful then Thedosians are, as well as being really ****ing old. We can debate the topic endlessly, but we will never have the answers on the soul. If we do get the answers, it's probably upon our death. At which point, it's hard to really enlighten anyone about it -- as I'm of the mind that ghosts not only exist, but can interact with society, though it's extremely difficult for them.

Anyway, tangent aside I'd like to think that the Old God's soul was simply banished to the Fade. As we can see, the Archdemon has a presence in the Fade through the Warden's dreams -- the landscape is the same as the Fade's. Similarly, the Old Gods were reputed to have conversed to the Magisters of Old in their dreams from the Fade. Finally, the Antivan Witch of the Wilds was able to summon Claudio's soul from the Fade.  

So I'd like to think that Morrigan would go through the effort to try and get the Old God's soul and bind it to her unborn child -- or her born child, though that might come with its own share of problems. I highly doubt she could do so alone -- maybe relying on a group of Old God cultist mages? -- but still. So she'd go down a route that's longer, harder, and possibly more dangerous.

The Taint wasn't really necessary for her to have an OGB. She needed a tainted child so the tainted Old God would be drawn to it. But if one were to assume that the Old God's soul was purified of the Taint upon the Warden's death, then would it be necessary? And one could believe that the Urthemiel that appears in Asunder is the Urthemiel, unless Asunder says otherwise.

As a result, the Warden remains dead and she gets her OGB through different means.

Hell, let's ignore Morrigan being the one to do so. Maybe Flemeth does it. That would be pretty good, to see the US lead to Flemeth gaining the Old God's soul through the way I described because maybe Flemeth thought Morrigan wouldn't be able to convince the Warden to go through with it. She did seem to know that Morrigan was going to not only attack her, but do other things.

But what peole are saying is that if your Warden died, the only logical reason is that he/she was joined to the Archdemon in its death. So effectively, if the Old God's soul was set free, the Warden would have to be alive.

I have to admit, they have a point. Unless the Wardens have been wrong all along in thinking that the Archdemon's essence is destroyed upon its death (which could explain other possible OG's out there), I don't see how that could work.


I wouldn't say the two souls were joined together per se. I would say that they were vying for control over the Warden's body and that the two souls clashed and, for lack of a better phrase, **** happened.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 août 2012 - 07:01 .


#240
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Without spoiling, what Alistair learns about his family blood in the comics, really start to look like an OGB plan B to me.

Modifié par lemarcheur, 26 août 2012 - 08:10 .


#241
Jerrybnsn

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brushyourteeth wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...


Not sure why some people want to try another type of emotional moment with their DEAD Warden. Respect the player agency and just leave the DEAD Warden alone in DAIII. Have all the extra gameplay with the ALIVE Warden that you want.


When I miss the Warden, I go back and re-play her. Simple. Image IPB

I think we all miss our Warden because we're used to following a single protagonist in a game series, and because DA:O was basically lightning in a bottle and, for probably most of us, a much better experience than DAII. Blame Hawke for that if you want, but bringing the Warden back isn't necessarily going to bring back that magic. It's actually probably going to sour your memory of him/her forever.

I'd love to hear from NPC's or lost correspondences what she's been up to lately, but I'll pass on playing her.


My point was not whether or not they should stick with the Warden; it was about player's agency in that those that chose the Dark Ritual should be allowed to continue on in some way with their Warden and the OGB. 

Player's agency, in that your choices matter, is what is the issue, not whether the Warden was better to play than Hawke or Quizzy, as he/she is being called now.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 26 août 2012 - 03:28 .


#242
Emzamination

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Yrkoon wrote...


It would be more accurate to say your companions got an emotional goodbye, no? The warden never got the chance to say goodbye (with the exception of morrigan) to the LI before executing the US

Sure he did.  You get a cutscene at the Denerim gates where the Warden gets a moment to exchange comments/goodbyes/final thoughts with each and every one of his companions.  Even Dog.

That, plus  absorbing the Archdemon's soul, plus the funeral at the end,  is the very definition of Story Closure.  Anything more would constitute something other than Closure.  It would constitute  re-opening something that was already closed


No, you got to reaffirm your love but the warden was never given the chance to say goodbye even knowing the fate that was in store.

#243
Jerrybnsn

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Emzamination wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
 You get a cutscene at the Denerim gates where the Warden gets a moment to exchange comments/goodbyes/final thoughts with each and every one of his companions.  Even Dog.

Anything more would constitute something other than Closure.  It would constitute  re-opening something that was already closed


No, you got to reaffirm your love but the warden was never given the chance to say goodbye even knowing the fate that was in store.


I felt like it was a more emotional scene of saying goodbye knowing that I was going to do the US.  When I did the Dark Ritual I was more of the "Hey,  I'll be back.  Just wait and see."

If anything, it's those that did the Dark Ritual that never got to say goodbye  to anyone.  The Warden just faded away...who knows?

#244
PistachioInfernal

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I think that as long as good writing is involved, a Morrigan God child would be most interesting. In my game, I didn't do the Dark Ritual, my character sent Logain to die for his sins. But my fiancee was in a relationship with Morrigan, and so did do the Dark Ritual. Whatever happens, I'm sure that Bioware (not EA) has it covered. At least, I'd like to think so. :)

#245
Emzamination

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Jerrybnsn wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
 You get a cutscene at the Denerim gates where the Warden gets a moment to exchange comments/goodbyes/final thoughts with each and every one of his companions.  Even Dog.

Anything more would constitute something other than Closure.  It would constitute  re-opening something that was already closed


No, you got to reaffirm your love but the warden was never given the chance to say goodbye even knowing the fate that was in store.


I felt like it was a more emotional scene of saying goodbye knowing that I was going to do the US.  When I did the Dark Ritual I was more of the "Hey,  I'll be back.  Just wait and see."

If anything, it's those that did the Dark Ritual that never got to say goodbye  to anyone.  The Warden just faded away...who knows?


Really? I felt terrible watching leliana sob at the funeral without ever having sat down and discussed the options.It would've been better if the warden had been allowed to discuss what killing the Archdemon entailed with their LI, as those kind of decisions shouldn't be made lightly without consulting with your significant other when your romantically involved.

The warden didn't fade away if the dark ritual was completed.The warden went on to defeat the mother, enjoyed the boon for some years (Provided he didn't follow morrigan) and then faded. ^_^


PistachioInfernal wrote...

I think that as long as good
writing is involved, a Morrigan God child would be most interesting. In
my game, I didn't do the Dark Ritual, my character sent Logain to die
for his sins
. But my fiancee was in a relationship with Morrigan, and so
did do the Dark Ritual. Whatever happens, I'm sure that Bioware (not
EA) has it covered. At least, I'd like to think so. :)


I chuckled at this :)

Modifié par Emzamination, 26 août 2012 - 03:54 .


#246
Scott Sion

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If your warden died at the end of Dragon Age Origins then you got closure and that's why you're not interested in seeing the warden come back in future titles. If you accepted Morrigans Dark Ritual like I did then your warden is still alive out there and you probably want more of an explantion then "We can't find him/her so I guess (s)he has vanished for good, oh well.".

My cannon warden followed Morrigan into the Eluvian so if she shows up in DA3 I'd even be content with even her explanation of the wardens current location or fate. I wouldn't even mind if there was some type of DA:O DLC explaining the wardens fate if that would be easier then putting it in DA3.

#247
Jerrybnsn

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plnero wrote...

My cannon warden followed Morrigan into the Eluvian so if she shows up in DA3 I'd even be content with even her explanation of the wardens current location or fate. I wouldn't even mind if there was some type of DA:O DLC explaining the wardens fate if that would be easier then putting it in DA3.


If Morrigan comes back in DA3, then there has to be an account to player's agency if they followed her into the Eluvian mirror.  And not just a one sentence statement like what DA2 often did to your Origins choices.  That's just lame.  Why on earth would I just sit at Morrigan's hearth watching the fire if she's out and about helping shape the world?  It's maddening!!

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 26 août 2012 - 05:25 .


#248
Yrkoon

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Emzamination wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Sure he did.  You get a cutscene at the Denerim gates where the Warden gets a moment to exchange comments/goodbyes/final thoughts with each and every one of his companions.  Even Dog.

That, plus  absorbing the Archdemon's soul, plus the funeral at the end,  is the very definition of Story Closure.  Anything more would constitute something other than Closure.  It would constitute  re-opening something that was already closed


No, you got to reaffirm your love

Something must be wrong with my eyes.  Can you read me the title of that you tube clip you just linked us to? Image IPB




but the warden was never given the chance to say goodbye even knowing the fate that was in store.

Again, sure he does.  What the warden says or doesn't say is entirely dependent on the dialogue options you choose. 

And it doesn't matter.  Your party is on the battlefield and  about to go fight the ARCH DEMON, remember?  Reciting  the contents of your living will shouldn't be top priorty  at that moment.    DA:O is an Fantasy RPG, not a romance novel.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 26 août 2012 - 10:06 .


#249
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Remind me again how we know the OGB is a boy? Was it said in-game? I forget. Honest question, not a snarky one.

#250
Jerrybnsn

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Avejajed wrote...

Remind me again how we know the OGB is a boy? Was it said in-game? I forget. Honest question, not a snarky one.


Morrigan says that it is a boy to the Warden in the Witch Hunt DLC.