251 réponses à ce sujet

[wsandista]

I personally wouldn't feel cheated, but then again I would prefer a set canon over imports anyway.

[magodesky]

BSN will feel cheated regardless of what Bioware does.  I imagine it will look something like this:

"BIOWARE HAZ BETRAID US!!1!!  How can Morrigan have a child if my Warden isn't the father?  Having characters capable of making their own decisions and living out lives of their own between installments makes no sense!!!  Also, where did this baby come from?  The last time we saw Morrigan, she was still pregnant!  How can we possibly be expected to follow what's going on unless Bioware gives us nine months of gameplay during which we follow every excrutiatingly trivial minute of Morrigan's pregnancy regardless of how irrelevant it may be to the plot?  Pre-order cancelled!"

Although seriously, I am kind of curious as to how they're going to handle the OGB issue.  I find it highly unlikely that they'd just retcon that decision.  I believe Gaider himself has even said already that if you didn't do the Dark Ritual, there's no OGB.

We already saw in DA2 that they had a number of quests that only trigger if certain conditions from DA:O are met.  I can see them doing something like for the OGB.  Say if perhaps DA3 has a questline involving the Morrigan/Flemeth situation.  You might get one quest if your Warden did the Dark Ritual and a different version of that quest if he didn't.  In other words, you still have to deal with Morrigan and Flemeth regardless of your choice in DA:O.  But the existence of the OGB may help you and/or bite you in the rear.

[Arthur Cousland]

If Morrigan's son existing is to be canon, then make him relevant or there is no point.

As my DA2 import had my Amell warden doing the ritual, I'm quite interested in seeing the whole Flemeth, Morrigan and ogb scenario move forward.

[Jerrybnsn]

magodesky wrote...

 ...... The last time we saw Morrigan, she was still pregnant!  How can we possibly be expected to follow what's going on unless Bioware gives us nine months of gameplay during which we follow every excrutiatingly trivial minute of Morrigan's pregnancy regardless of how irrelevant it may be to the plot?  Pre-order cancelled!"

From personal experience, it wouldn't be much more than this:

Are you okay?

Morrigan: RREEEETTCCCHHH!!!!!!  Yes.

[Fast Jimmy]

magodesky wrote...

We already saw in DA2 that they had a number of quests that only trigger if certain conditions from DA:O are met.  I can see them doing something like for the OGB.  Say if perhaps DA3 has a questline involving the Morrigan/Flemeth situation.  You might get one quest if your Warden did the Dark Ritual and a different version of that quest if he didn't.  In other words, you still have to deal with Morrigan and Flemeth regardless of your choice in DA:O.  But the existence of the OGB may help you and/or bite you in the rear.

We saw a few side quests, yes. Never longer than two seconds to complete. And not a single 'questline' at all. 

If the OGB choice gets made canon, there will be protests. If it is reduced to a side quest and all of Morrigan and Flemeth's scheming is just a small bump in the road, there will be protests. If the (or one of) main plot revolves around Morrigan/Flemeth and the OGB has some part in the if alive, not if he doesn't exist, that could work. But would have to be handled better than any other import choice Bioware has done to date. So far, their track record is shirt. Minus the R. 

And, again, I am still a huge advocate for no choice imports, period. It fixes all of these questions and concerns. 

[twincast]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

long post #1

Fast Jimmy wrote...

long post #2

It's kind of sad, but I totally agree. ME3 managed to underwhelm even my (after ME2 heavily) low(ered) expectations in that regard and as you said it was always planned as a trilogy (although even the major overarching plot itself changed significantly (for the worse) during development between games) -- not so Dragon Age. I always thought that eventual games after that initial ME trilogy and all games after DA:O would be doomed from the start if they try to acknowledge all possible -- and often wildly diverging -- outcomes. Either give us choices that matter during and/or after the respective game -- which honestly seems nigh impossible if you aren't going for an unvoiced and/or 2D game, preferably both (so FO1&2/BG1&2-style in both regards) -- or at least give us choices with impacts big and small during the respective game while adhering to your own official canon between titles (in other words: see classic games above), but don't give us the utterly meaningless crap railroad choices of DA2 or go all have your cake and eat it too as they did with most DA:O choices in DA2. In short: Don't make promises you can't (or aren't sure you will [cue Gaider quote]) keep! No to mention that they can't even manage to track those flags correctly anyway.

As for human!Urthemiel in particular: They have a meta-plot planned for the world and he's way too important not to revisit, especially given The Silent Grove, so just man up and declare OGB canon already.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I think Bioware should man up and after a couple of yrs, start to canon things from there games, its the only way to keep a decent plot without having to add loads of ****ty cameos in say the 4th or 5th installment of a game.

[andocrack]

I'm not a fan of it because of the way they handled Mass Effect 3, but if they're gonna do it, they'd better let people know first.

But if that happens, at that point, they should also just make one ending, because at that point it'd be obvious that they couldn't handle all the variables.

[Wulfram]

Personally:

Non Old God Baby - Fine
Not importing and having a canon continuity with OGB - Fine

but

Importing and having an OGB despite no Dark Ritual - lame.

[Maclimes]

Could Riordan have performed the ritual?

[Fast Jimmy]

andocrack wrote...

I'm not a fan of it because of the way they handled Mass Effect 3, but if they're gonna do it, they'd better let people know first.

But if that happens, at that point, they should also just make one ending, because at that point it'd be obvious that they couldn't handle all the variables.

Thats exactly what they did with all of DA2. 

[wetnasty]

I'm sure BSN would feel cheated even if they covered their asses for every single Morrigan option there is.

There would be cries of "BUT WHAT IF I DON'T WANT HER IN DA3. WHY DON'T I HAVE A CHOICE IN THE PEOPLE WHO EXIST IN THE WORLD!!!!! -flails-"

[berelinde]

Maclimes wrote...

Could Riordan have performed the ritual?

Morrigan said that his swimmers were too tainted to be viable.

Plus, if she was pregnant by Riordan, would the Warden/Alistair/Loghain still have died?

[Jerrybnsn]

berelinde wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

Could Riordan have performed the ritual?

Morrigan said that his swimmers were too tainted to be viable.

Plus, if she was pregnant by Riordan, would the Warden/Alistair/Loghain still have died?

Morrigan could have cast a spell and killed him to cover her tracks.  I'm just throwing stuff out there.

Oh! oh! oh!  I got it.  Maybe there was much more to that ritual that was designed to save the warden's life, but since that didn't happened then she just carried out the part to save the Old God's soul.

There you go.  Wrapped up pretty as a bow.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 août 2012 - 04:39 .

[Ulathar]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Morrigan's child could either be,

- The OGB (fathered by the Warden, Alistair or Loghain)
- Her love child (fathered by a romanced Warden who did not perform the dark ritual)
- A baby she took in/gave birth to off screen with a to us so far unknown father (for those who denied the DR and did not romance her)

Either way the baby could factor into her plot, with variance in the script of just how much the child could be capable of depending on how he was conceived. Methinks this could allow the OGB to show up and be important while using a realistic amount of resources for choice and consequence.

What say you, BSN? =)

Personally, I'd say if there is an explanation as to how it happened (I mean, of course I know *how* but you know what I mean, right?^^) for those who didn't agree to the DR then I'd be fine with it. So, the three options you provided in the OP I could live with.
That's just me, though, I'm sure there'd also be some who don't agree.

[PsychoBlonde]

 It wouldn't bother me if they decided the OGB was canon--as long as they allowed for the fact that it wasn't the son of the Warden, Alistair, or Loghain.  Morrigan runs off before the final battle if you refuse her--it's possible she managed to finagle an OGB before the final battle.

[andocrack]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Thats exactly what they did with all of DA2. 

Essentially, but I mean one ending, not a choice between one or another that results in the same thing. The DA2 ending was probably meant to be more ambitious than its final product.

[magodesky]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

We saw a few side quests, yes. Never longer than two seconds to complete.

Well, that's clearly an exaggeration.  But I only point them out as an example of the kind of thing they could potentially do with DA3--using flags from the previous games to determine which quests get triggered.  Granted, in DA2 those references to DA:O weren't terribly consequential.  That's largely because DA2 was the story of a new hero in a new location, and, aside from the destruction of Lothering at the very beginning, there wasn't much reason that the Warden's actions would have any direct effect on Hawke.  But I think part of it is also that the Dragon Age team was still figuring out how best to implement certain game elements when they were working on DA2.  IMO, the Legacy and Mark of the Assassin DLCs already resolved a lot of the issues that the original game had.  So I'm expecting DA3 to be much more refined.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

If the OGB choice gets made canon, there will be protests. If it is reduced to a side quest and all of Morrigan and Flemeth's scheming is just a small bump in the road, there will be protests.

I also wouldn't want to see the OGB reduced to a small side quest or cameo.  That was fine enough for the DA:O references in DA2, but something like the OGB is big enough that it deserves a resolution with more weight.

The problem seems to be a question how much resources Bioware is going to expend on a choice that a good percentage of players didn't even make.  But it is entirely possible to have a character who has a huge impact on the story even if his actual "on-screen" presence is pretty small.  How often do we actually see Sauron in The Lord of the Rings for example?  So I could see Bioware going that route, as it might mitigate the cost of including a character so central to the plot who is also completely optional.  You'd just have to throw in some extra lines of dialogue about the OGB and a variant scene in which he shows up for people whose Wardens did the Dark Ritual.

The point is, they have plenty of options for dealing with this.  So far, there's been nothing to indicate that Bioware is going to retcon anyone's choices if they decided not to go through with the Dark Ritual.  So until and unless that happens, I don't see any point in anyone getting upset or worried about it.

[Kroitz]

The way they **** with the "canons" everyone in Thedas should be pregnant.

Modifié par Kroitz, 20 août 2012 - 06:30 .

[Wonderllama4]

Maclimes wrote...

Could Riordan have performed the ritual?

Of course. Morrigan is a LIAR. She wanted to sleep with the Warden, but would settle for Riordan if she had to.

Morrigan's baby is canon! You can't prevent it. IT'S COMING!!

[deuce985]

No.

I want Morrigan/Flemeth's plot resolved. They're obviously up to something big. What that is, nobody knows for sure. I could see the baby playing a big part in that.

Something just tells me Bioware is going to have some kind of "greater evil" enter the picture in DA3. I have a feeling you're not going to pick a side(Templar/Mage). Both sides will need to get rid of their differences to face a greater threat in Thedas. But before that happens, Thedas will be tore down from the war. This evil will exploit the current situation in Thedas. Unity happens and they face this evil in DA4.

I think this threat will center around Morrigan and Flemeth. This will be the setting for DA4, with hints sprinkled into DA3. What role the child plays, I can't say. The baby will be canon in the plot somewhere.

Based on the feedback thread a few months ago, I think over 30% wanted to know more about Flemeth/Morrigan/Morrigan's child. I believe we'll see something in DA3 about those three.

Modifié par deuce985, 20 août 2012 - 07:16 .

[Cutlass Jack]

I wouldn't want the OGB to be cannon. I didn't go that route for a reason, and that choice should be respected.

But clearly Flemeth was manipulating Morrigan into doing the whole OGB thing for a reason. And I would be very disappointed if Flemeth didn't have some sort of back up plan. Some other means to whatever end she was working towards.

That doesn't mean it has to be another baby by Morrigan. It could be something else entirely.

[Renmiri1]

andocrack wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Thats exactly what they did with all of DA2. 

Essentially, but I mean one ending, not a choice between one or another that results in the same thing. The DA2 ending was probably meant to be more ambitious than its final product.

You could side with templars and be Viscount or side with mages and be a fugitive. 

PS: How did Flemeth know about all that Grey Warden lore ? Could Flemeth be an OGB from an earlier blight ? 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 20 août 2012 - 07:42 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I wouldn't want the OGB to be cannon. I didn't go that route for a reason, and that choice should be respected.

But clearly Flemeth was manipulating Morrigan into doing the whole OGB thing for a reason. And I would be very disappointed if Flemeth didn't have some sort of back up plan. Some other means to whatever end she was working towards.

That doesn't mean it has to be another baby by Morrigan. It could be something else entirely.

True. She could have dug up the Warden's body after the US and used its tenuos connection with the Old God spirit to recreate its essence. And put it into... a LLAMA!

 

[Fast Jimmy]

Renmiri1 wrote...

andocrack wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Thats exactly what they did with all of DA2. 

Essentially, but I mean one ending, not a choice between one or another that results in the same thing. The DA2 ending was probably meant to be more ambitious than its final product.

You could side with templars and be Viscount or side with mages and be a fugitive. 

Yep! You could be Viscount... for one sentence! And then you were "gone, like the Warden." BIG difference there, let me tell you. 

Did you just hear that Boom!? It must have been the headcanons firing.