251 réponses à ce sujet

[Jerrybnsn]

Androme wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

I think any of those options would be great regardless of what we did or didn't do in Origins. I'd also be fine with a more simple "Morrigan vs. Flemeth" conflict  which doesn't involve any OGB/lovechild/son.

The Morrigan story is such a great one in the Dragon age universe. IMO it surpasses all the others.  It's heads and shoulders above everything else in both games.   It would be a travesty if they just left it dangling/unfinished  just so they could pursue  some  other plot, like the chantry vs. Mage circles tripe (which doesn't interest me in the slightest)

This

That's what I'm saying.  Just for the sake of the player's agency that made this decision, they need to play it out.  If they have something plan for those that didn't make the Dark Ritual than do that as well.  Frankly, I don't know how you could play the Ultimate Sacrifice through the series considering you had to actually play your dead Warden through Awakenings and the DLC.....I just couldn't do it because it was...ridiculous, so I had no US imported into DA2.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 21 août 2012 - 04:15 .

[Emzamination]

twincast wrote...

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

It would be a dealbreaker for me if the most important decision in Origins was retconned like that. Fortunately, David Gaider confirmed ages ago that this would never happen. (link:http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/3171720/8#3195476)
These threads keep popping up in spite of that though

Well, I don't exactly see a "will never happen" in that post, only an explanation of the (then) current state of how things worked. Two things to remember: a) While high up the ladder as lead writer, he never the less doesn't have the ultimate say in things. As he is prone to say: plans change.

Stop trying to suppress my right to choice via vague Insinuations <_<

[Emzamination]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Androme wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

I think any of those options would be great regardless of what we did or didn't do in Origins. I'd also be fine with a more simple "Morrigan vs. Flemeth" conflict  which doesn't involve any OGB/lovechild/son.

The Morrigan story is such a great one in the Dragon age universe. IMO it surpasses all the others.  It's heads and shoulders above everything else in both games.   It would be a travesty if they just left it dangling/unfinished  just so they could pursue  some  other plot, like the chantry vs. Mage circles tripe (which doesn't interest me in the slightest)

This

That's what I'm saying.  Just for the sake of the player's agency that made this decision, they need to play it out.  If they have something plan for those that didn't make the Dark Ritual than do that as well.  Frankly, I don't know how you could play the Ultimate Sacrifice through the series considering you had to actually play your dead Warden through Awakenings and the DLC.....I just couldn't do it because it was...ridiculous, so I had no US imported into DA2.

You weren't suppose to Import your dead warden into Awakening...Once they're dead, you import into Da2 and the codex plays out as it should.

[Jerrybnsn]

Emzamination wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...


................, I don't know how you could play the Ultimate Sacrifice through the series considering you had to actually play your dead Warden through Awakenings and the DLC.....I just couldn't do it because it was...ridiculous, so I had no US imported into DA2.

You weren't suppose to Import your dead warden into Awakening...Once they're dead, you import into Da2 and the codex plays out as it should.

Oh you could import your Ultimate Sacrifice into the Awakening expansion, but the only way for you to get to continue the world of Thedas with your decisions from the previous game was to play the Warden alive;  Ghost Warden! .....I did it because I wanted to see my statue and here everyone talk about how great I was.  No one even mentioned the fact that I was suppose to be dead, nor was there even a statue.  Hawke gets a statue for killing a Qunari, but I don't get a statue for killing an archdeamon?!

[Fast Jimmy]

^
Life's not fair, is it?

I... well, I shall never be king.

And you... you shall never see the light of another day! You...

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...


................, I don't know how you could play the Ultimate Sacrifice through the series considering you had to actually play your dead Warden through Awakenings and the DLC.....I just couldn't do it because it was...ridiculous, so I had no US imported into DA2.

You weren't suppose to Import your dead warden into Awakening...Once they're dead, you import into Da2 and the codex plays out as it should.

Oh you could import your Ultimate Sacrifice into the Awakening expansion, but the only way for you to get to continue the world of Thedas with your decisions from the previous game was to play the Warden alive;  Ghost Warden! .....I did it because I wanted to see my statue and here everyone talk about how great I was.  No one even mentioned the fact that I was suppose to be dead, nor was there even a statue.  Hawke gets a statue for killing a Qunari, but I don't get a statue for killing an archdeamon?!

Ferelden obviously has much higher standards for statuedom than Kirkwall does...

[Emzamination]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...


................, I don't know how you could play the Ultimate Sacrifice through the series considering you had to actually play your dead Warden through Awakenings and the DLC.....I just couldn't do it because it was...ridiculous, so I had no US imported into DA2.

You weren't suppose to Import your dead warden into Awakening...Once they're dead, you import into Da2 and the codex plays out as it should.

Oh you could import your Ultimate Sacrifice into the Awakening expansion, but the only way for you to get to continue the world of Thedas with your decisions from the previous game was to play the Warden alive;  Ghost Warden! .....I did it because I wanted to see my statue and here everyone talk about how great I was.  No one even mentioned the fact that I was suppose to be dead, nor was there even a statue.  Hawke gets a statue for killing a Qunari, but I don't get a statue for killing an archdeamon?!

All those things from awakening and witch hunt still play out, even if you start a default game, it's just the orlesian warden completed those objectives since your warden isn't around hence leliana still mentioning looking for the warden with a Ultimate sacrifice import

[Jerrybnsn]

Emzamination wrote...

All those things from awakening and witch hunt still play out, even if you start a default game, it's just the orlesian warden completed those objectives since your warden isn't around hence leliana still mentioning looking for the warden with a Ultimate sacrifice import

This I did not know.  See?  With all these inconsistencies from the end of Origins to the end of DA2 concerning the Ultimate Sacrifice, how can you take issue that Morrigan would have an OGB play out in DAIII?

[Vox Draco]

For me personally the OGB and Morrigans ritual is canon anyway, as it was the only way for a true cousland-female-queen-happy-ending. So I don't nind if Morrigan the ugly old hag has a child with my Warden's Alistair...as long as she doesn't hang around in denerim, the couple has enough problems in Ferelden after the Warden returned, gladly at least her short trip through the mirror cleaned her from the taint...

That being said: I only feel cheated if they mess with the above headcanon becoming impossible. Hands away from the Warden and Alistair and Ferelden in general for the next years.

And why does it have to be a son, by the way? Can't Morrigan have a daughter with the soul of an Old God?

[Emzamination]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

All those things from awakening and witch hunt still play out, even if you start a default game, it's just the orlesian warden completed those objectives since your warden isn't around hence leliana still mentioning looking for the warden with a Ultimate sacrifice import

This I did not know.  See?  With all these inconsistencies from the end of Origins to the end of DA2 concerning the Ultimate Sacrifice, how can you take issue that Morrigan would have an OGB play out in DAIII?

Because I didn't deny her the ritual from some self righteous stand point to save ferelden or myself, I denied her to save her from her self and that child being made canon represents a failure to do that.

[Potato Cat]

There was not a single time I rejected Morrigan's offer, (without quickly regretting my choice), so the OGB is canon. Besides, it can only make my game more interesting. And make Morrigan happy. Which is good for all of Thedas.

[Fast Jimmy]

Vox Draco wrote...
And why does it have to be a son, by the way? Can't Morrigan have a daughter with the soul of an Old God?

Witch Hunt. In that DLC, when Morrigan is encountered, she calls the child by a he. 'He is safe and out of harm's reach' if memory serves me correctly. 

So, while the topic of this thread is Bioware changing information and setting a canon, I think this piece will stay true - Morrigan had a baby boy if she was pregnant. 

[Emzamination]

Elfman wrote...

There was not a single time I rejected Morrigan's offer, (without quickly regretting my choice), so the OGB is canon. Besides, it can only make my game more interesting. And make Morrigan happy. Which is good for all of Thedas.

It did not make morrigan happy, you're just taking the whole ritual at face value.Here is a clip that was cut from the original game but later made into a comic by David gaider depicting morrigans feelings on the dark ritual before red cliff.

[Potato Cat]

Emzamination wrote...

Elfman wrote...

There was not a single time I rejected Morrigan's offer, (without quickly regretting my choice), so the OGB is canon. Besides, it can only make my game more interesting. And make Morrigan happy. Which is good for all of Thedas.

It did not make morrigan happy, you're just taking the whole ritual at face value.Here is a clip that was cut from the original game but later made into a comic by David gaider depicting morrigans feelings on the dark ritual before red cliff.

Yes, I've seen the comic before. What I meant was that if you said no, she got angry and left the party for the rest of the game. And I liked having Morrigan in my party.

[Emzamination]

Elfman wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Elfman wrote...

There was not a single time I rejected Morrigan's offer, (without quickly regretting my choice), so the OGB is canon. Besides, it can only make my game more interesting. And make Morrigan happy. Which is good for all of Thedas.

It did not make morrigan happy, you're just taking the whole ritual at face value.Here is a clip that was cut from the original game but later made into a comic by David gaider depicting morrigans feelings on the dark ritual before red cliff.

Yes, I've seen the comic before. What I meant was that if you said no, she got angry and left the party for the rest of the game. And I liked having Morrigan in my party.

She wasn't angry so much as heartbroken, as she says in witch hunt "I did not want to see you die".Her absence in the final battle to me was small price to pay for deterring her from flemeth's manipulation.As I've said before, That final choice (imo) comes down to either the warden or morrigan saving one or the other.

[Blackfishie]

Emzamination wrote...

Elfman wrote...

There was not a single time I rejected Morrigan's offer, (without quickly regretting my choice), so the OGB is canon. Besides, it can only make my game more interesting. And make Morrigan happy. Which is good for all of Thedas.

It did not make morrigan happy, you're just taking the whole ritual at face value.Here is a clip that was cut from the original game but later made into a comic by David gaider depicting morrigans feelings on the dark ritual before red cliff.

To be fair thats because she's doing the ritual with Alistair who she hates, I should imagine she's far more happy about doing it with a romanced dude warden.

[Emzamination]

Blackfishie wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Elfman wrote...

There was not a single time I rejected Morrigan's offer, (without quickly regretting my choice), so the OGB is canon. Besides, it can only make my game more interesting. And make Morrigan happy. Which is good for all of Thedas.

It did not make morrigan happy, you're just taking the whole ritual at face value.Here is a clip that was cut from the original game but later made into a comic by David gaider depicting morrigans feelings on the dark ritual before red cliff.

To be fair thats because she's doing the ritual with Alistair who she hates, I should imagine she's far more happy about doing it with a romanced dude warden.

Alistair had nothing to do with it, she even opens up to him

[wright1978]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Morrigan's child could either be,

- The OGB (fathered by the Warden, Alistair or Loghain)
- Her love child (fathered by a romanced Warden who did not perform the dark ritual)
- A baby she took in/gave birth to off screen with a to us so far unknown father (for those who denied the DR and did not romance her)

Either way the baby could factor into her plot, with variance in the script of just how much the child could be capable of depending on how he was conceived. Methinks this could allow the OGB to show up and be important while using a realistic amount of resources for choice and consequence.

What say you, BSN? =)

Sounds good. Definitely don't think they should retcon such a big choice as the OGB. Possibly have Morrigan's fate tied to which type of child she has.

[Vox Draco]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Witch Hunt. In that DLC, when Morrigan is encountered, she calls the child by a he. 'He is safe and out of harm's reach' if memory serves me correctly. 

Oh thanks, I totally missed that it seems. Ah well, as long as he won't look like another well-known godchild I can live with that...

[Rawgrim]

simfamSP wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I won`t mind it. It wouldn`t be worse than Leliana surviving decaptitation, anyway.

that wasn't canon. If she died she died, the animations don't come into play. They're just nice to see

Same with BG2, how Jaheira, Minsc, Boo and co somehow survived and were in the main party xD

The BG series didn`t import choices you did in the previous games...

[Kidd]

Elfman wrote...

There was not a single time I rejected Morrigan's offer, (without quickly regretting my choice), so the OGB is canon. Besides, it can only make my game more interesting. And make Morrigan happy. Which is good for all of Thedas.

Agreed with this point, since I strongly believe Morrigan is the most noble, self-sacrificing super hero to grace Thedas. Of course, I base that off one, single line in Witch Hunt ("What I want... is unimportant now"), but it makes sense to me =D

wright1978 wrote...

Sounds good. Definitely don't think they should retcon such a big choice as the OGB. Possibly have Morrigan's fate tied to which type of child she has.

Was thinking something like this as well. There could be two choices dealing with Morrigan in DA3, as well as the DR in DAO. Get two of them "right" and she will survive, otherwise no. Pretty ME3-inspired, though it is inspired by the parts people have universally praised as the by far best parts

[Blastback]

I could live with it like that if they executed correctly.

[KENNY4753]

if she had a son no because she could have been with somebody else. If your warden/allistar/loghain sacrificed himself and she had a son who and claimed he had the soul of an old god then yes

[brushyourteeth]

I understand wanting player agency, but honestly, there are going to be things that happen within the game-world that are outside our character's control.

Morrigan finding a way to do whatever the heck she wants is one of those things. She's Morrigan. My Warden can choose not to be a part of it, but it won't stop Morrigan from being Morrigan and doing what Morrigan does - which is be awesome enough to bypass your decision not to help and make her own way regardless.