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Can someone explain how I was just carried?


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#301
Geek

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Major_Kong wrote...

One thing that no one has mentioned is the length of time to complete a game. Recently I scored about 160k in a gold match on Giant playing a human soldier. No one else scored over 90k. The game took 24 minutes to complete. That is not a carry. Most pub gold matches take 20-24 minutes.

A couple months ago I scored 176k on FBW with a GI. No one else scored over 70k, most of the objectives were soloed by me because the rest of the team went down. The game took over 30 minutes to complete. That was a carry.


This matters. Playing speed runs with good players means if you aren't super aggressive there is nothing left to kill. If it was closer to a 25-30 minute game it is a different story.

#302
upinya slayin

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rymoulton wrote...

Major_Kong wrote...

One thing that no one has mentioned is the length of time to complete a game. Recently I scored about 160k in a gold match on Giant playing a human soldier. No one else scored over 90k. The game took 24 minutes to complete. That is not a carry. Most pub gold matches take 20-24 minutes.

A couple months ago I scored 176k on FBW with a GI. No one else scored over 70k, most of the objectives were soloed by me because the rest of the team went down. The game took over 30 minutes to complete. That was a carry.


This matters. Playing speed runs with good players means if you aren't super aggressive there is nothing left to kill. If it was closer to a 25-30 minute game it is a different story.


Playing with you and Gollum,  I could barely find an enemy to shoot at lol

#303
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upinya slayin wrote...

rymoulton wrote...

Major_Kong wrote...

One thing that no one has mentioned is the length of time to complete a game. Recently I scored about 160k in a gold match on Giant playing a human soldier. No one else scored over 90k. The game took 24 minutes to complete. That is not a carry. Most pub gold matches take 20-24 minutes.

A couple months ago I scored 176k on FBW with a GI. No one else scored over 70k, most of the objectives were soloed by me because the rest of the team went down. The game took over 30 minutes to complete. That was a carry.


This matters. Playing speed runs with good players means if you aren't super aggressive there is nothing left to kill. If it was closer to a 25-30 minute game it is a different story.


Playing with you and Gollum,  I could barely find an enemy to shoot at lol


Right but when we kill things that quickly it is so far from a carry. Pretty much throw out the scoreboard in those games.

#304
upinya slayin

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rymoulton wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

rymoulton wrote...

Major_Kong wrote...

One thing that no one has mentioned is the length of time to complete a game. Recently I scored about 160k in a gold match on Giant playing a human soldier. No one else scored over 90k. The game took 24 minutes to complete. That is not a carry. Most pub gold matches take 20-24 minutes.

A couple months ago I scored 176k on FBW with a GI. No one else scored over 70k, most of the objectives were soloed by me because the rest of the team went down. The game took over 30 minutes to complete. That was a carry.


This matters. Playing speed runs with good players means if you aren't super aggressive there is nothing left to kill. If it was closer to a 25-30 minute game it is a different story.


Playing with you and Gollum,  I could barely find an enemy to shoot at lol


Right but when we kill things that quickly it is so far from a carry. Pretty much throw out the scoreboard in those games.


or doing condor platinum and running out of ammo every wave so sitting with my shield up so my buddy could stand behind me and bkast his PPS through my shioeld since he was the onlt one who didn't need ammo as we shared 1 glicthed ammo box :( I really hate condor

#305
FullMetalArthur

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The perspective to me on the whole situation is like this:

People that think that score has somehow something to do with overall performance

and people that thinks that is more important to save others and be the errant boy.

To tell you the truth I do believe that reviving a lot, and you can lose points and kills moving that stupid drone by yourself, but in the long run you can't play defense on gold, it's no fun. i say let them die in 1 wave and force them to take cover and use medigel, because I think that you pay the price for those players that are reckless and play "high-score means im badass". Don't worth your time reviving. It's better to carefully take down a prime, that risking your ass in saving those people.

Using medigel a lot and getting stomped in the face should at least give them time to think: maybe i'm doing something wrong. Maybe i'm an idiot and someone is letting himself being carried because of my stupidity.

#306
nicethugbert

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defleshing wrote...

thugburt you have no clue how to play this game. all you opinions are irrelevant mr i can't handle aggro.


Yet, no one here can establish a connection between score and any other aspect of the game such that one could be said to have been carried based on their score.  People are arguing score for scores sake at this point.

#307
nicethugbert

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LuckyBullet95 wrote...

nicethugbert I was in a public Glacier game yesterday and scored 120k whilst everyone else scored 40k, I was running and gunning, they weren't. The match took 16 minutes and 41 seconds without rockets... room of shame campers actually helped me by staying out of the way though to be fair (Demolisher wasn't stealing Nades from the ammo boxes/they helped forced spawns topside for me to clear). I don't think any of them even had a 25 kill medal and none of them did objectives.


You know such matches can take longer too.  So, what exactly is score indicative of if various scenarios occur independant of score?

#308
nicethugbert

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I'm still waiting on an explanation of how score specifically relates to anything in this game.

#309
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Carried? Last night I had one of those nights. I was on the top of the board all night. I was killing everything in sight. Reflexes were just on. I was doing revives, too, and doing goals. I saw the poor sap that was in my usual place. He left quickly. I was thinking. No. Don't go. Stay. You just had a bad game. I don't mind. We won. It's co-op. We got the money. Who cares? Alas I guess people care more than I do.

#310
synapsefire

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nicethugbert wrote...

I'm still waiting on an explanation of how score specifically relates to anything in this game.

This is a link to my post a few pages back where I try to break down random games based on score. Everything I write on these forums pertains to Gold specifically. Although it can apply to other difficulties that is the one I play.

When you have played this game a lot you will get a general feel of when you are carrying or not. This can come easy in the form of teammates doing stupid shtt wiping themeselves on an exposed device leaving you to solo, or it can be more subtle in the form of low scoring players camping in corners, running from enemies without shooting their gun and generally leaving you with all the aggro. Thats all I have to say about carrying. 

When it comes to the scoreboard, people seem to get all defensive and worked up about how it is lying, that they were supporting, someone stole their kills, yada yada yada. Just numerous excuses to why they score low. Personally I don't give a crap what your score is, all I want is players I can rely on to make the game more fun for me. 

However... Experience dictates that there is a connection between score and skill. But the most important problem with low scoring players is that they rarely pull their share of aggro. Thats why I would bring heavy hitting aggressive players every day over someone running around in cloak reviving.


Concerning score from another thread..

synapsefire wrote...

If having a scoreboard makes you feel bad don't look at it. I can't imagine any game without a scoreboard. I play better by having it there. In fact I wish they would add detailed statistics instead of the medal interface, letting me see who's got the best accuracy, revives etc.

If you continually rank in at the bottom, chances are you have room for improvement. I find no reason playing games that don't have a high skill-cap, giving me lots of room for improvement tactically, strategically and/or physically in terms of eye hand coordination and reaction time.


Modifié par synapsefire, 23 août 2012 - 10:40 .


#311
WaffleCrab

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Lord_Sirian wrote...

WaffleCrab wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Congratulations on continuing to miss the point for such a long period of time.

I will state it as simply as I can:

The fact that someone can do well with a build does not necessarily make it a good build. 


I in turn congratulate you missing another point, a build that might not be a good build for someone, does not automatically make it a bad build for everyone else.

Are we done with this merry go round?

 

Your point is simply my point with the roles reversed. I do not disagree with your point and I have made that same point on occasions. To claim that I have missed it shows just how bad your lack of understanding is.

So one player using a certain build and not doing well doesn't mean the build is bad, of course not. However, there ARE some, plain and simply: BAD builds. This is not something I'm going to argue about any more. There are bad builds just as there are good builds. A good player can make a bad build work well. But that same player will make a good build work so much better.


what i was trying to say was good/bad build is merely a matter of perception, while a good player can make even a build some percieve as bad work(as you said) bad players still get better. and as they form new ways of playing, they may find builds they thought to be bad earlier, quite effective. This is what i was trying to say with "there are no bad or good builds, or good and bad players" as wether a build is good or not, is only a matter of perception. And perceptions change, and so do peoples skills.

#312
Guest_Lord_Sirian_*

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But bad builds will always be bad builds.

Thank for you helping to explain my point so clearly. Hopefully now it will be clear.

#313
CoddyXD

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Sorry but I played a paladin with no gear last night. got dropped in jade mid round 5. I spent alot of the time SFing things comung through the side door to the teams camping area while team killing front bits.

I still got double this score.

33k is having a 5 wave toilet break and basically playing decoy lvl skills.

As for GI killing fast.....yer then can kill a mob faster than ED instant tags them....get a grip.

I fail to understand how some can hold there hand up saying they played well on a paladin with this score.

#314
WaffleCrab

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Lord_Sirian wrote...

But bad builds will always be bad builds.

Thank for you helping to explain my point so clearly. Hopefully now it will be clear.


nothing but a difference in points of view, which you still did not understand.

#315
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Stealthy Mantis wrote...

I just finished a firebase Dagger, Geth, Gold, was bottom of the score board with 33k, top had 105k but was using GI. I was using Paladin with arc pistol and Piranha, i constantly was reviving the two others in the game and was most of the time only one doing objectives. on the nonobjective waves i consistantly was taking fire from the primes, hunters and rocket troopers while allowing the others to get behind them. Yet at the end of the match the GI has the nerve to plug him mic in and tell me to get lost as he didnt want to carry my lazy backside any more. 

Can someone please tell me how i was just carried?


I'll explain how you were being carried right after you explain why you think someone playing a geth infiltrator is relevant to your score.

#316
Stinja

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upinya slayin wrote...

For instance, This guy here was carried.

I'm not saying he was a bad teammate. He tried, he wans't leeching, But in an U/U/G you get 40% more exp and he only netted 40k. only had 5 revives, 25 assist, and didn't get the 25 kill medal. He got carried. its plain and simple.


Not sure i agree.  Sometimes you dont get the killing blow, and it effects your score.  You are contributing, but your score is not reflective, for instance the other day i was using a Black Widow;  i'd keep doing 90% of damage to stuff, but someone else would get the killing blow with their quicker firing guns.  My score didnt reflect the damage dealt, but no-one thought i was being carried.

Likewise in this game no-one got carried, certainly i was getting the killing blow, but fickleness of the system makes my score look far better than other people's.  Without their help i could not kill stuff (covering my flanks, pulling aggro etc).  A random scoreboard screenshot does not convey contribution:

Image IPB

#317
Gockey

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Stinja wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

For instance, This guy here was carried.

I'm not saying he was a bad teammate. He tried, he wans't leeching, But in an U/U/G you get 40% more exp and he only netted 40k. only had 5 revives, 25 assist, and didn't get the 25 kill medal. He got carried. its plain and simple.


Not sure i agree.  Sometimes you dont get the killing blow, and it effects your score.  You are contributing, but your score is not reflective, for instance the other day i was using a Black Widow;  i'd keep doing 90% of damage to stuff, but someone else would get the killing blow with their quicker firing guns.  My score didnt reflect the damage dealt, but no-one thought i was being carried.

Likewise in this game no-one got carried, certainly i was getting the killing blow, but fickleness of the system makes my score look far better than other people's.  Without their help i could not kill stuff (covering my flanks, pulling aggro etc).  A random scoreboard screenshot does not convey contribution:



If your actually doing 90% of the damage then your pulling 900+ point assists of an atlas or prime, and 400 points off pyros and hunters.  Let the person pull 150 points off a killing blow.  

Your score would still be higher.  

Which makes me thing you pulled that out of your ****

#318
Richter Harken

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If you completed the gold match, you get a 10k point bonus. A partial extraction, and I'm assuming you got at least that, nets you 5k more. Since you were so adamant about reviving, I'm gonna guess you got the 10 revives medal, for 1k more points. So you did objectives, I'm gonna assume that means you got one disable objective and that you did all four, which will net you roughly 2.4k more points. That adds up to 18.4k, which means that your kills were worth 14.6k points, and before the end of wave 10 your score was about ~18k-ish.

I'm sorry, but to say that you weren't carrying your weight is an understatement. If you had been afk the entire match, the rest of the team might not have noticed you were gone, and just done the point capping job themselves. Not to mention that you probably would not be of much help in any target-killing objective round.

Good players can support, revive, cap objectives, AND get 60k+ score while they're at it, which means they accomplish the same job you did while killing 3 times as many enemies, and probably tanking a lot more, since they're definitely getting aggro, from all the damage they're dishing out.

Don't feel bad about it, identify what you're doing wrong and improve your game. The GI guy was a dick for pointing it out in such an impolite manner, but the fact is that your addition to the team was minimal. Saying that score doesn't matter is just denial. It's not the end-all, of course, but it's a fairly good assesment of how much you helped, with a certain degree of acceptable error. Scoring less than 20k by wave 10 is well within the acceptable error bounds to state that you were of no help.

#319
Seifer006

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Stealthy Mantis wrote...

I just finished a firebase Dagger, Geth, Gold, was bottom of the score board with 33k, top had 105k


There's your answer

#320
Richter Harken

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Stinja wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

For instance, This guy here was carried.

I'm not saying he was a bad teammate. He tried, he wans't leeching, But in an U/U/G you get 40% more exp and he only netted 40k. only had 5 revives, 25 assist, and didn't get the 25 kill medal. He got carried. its plain and simple.


Not sure i agree.  Sometimes you dont get the killing blow, and it effects your score.  You are contributing, but your score is not reflective, for instance the other day i was using a Black Widow;  i'd keep doing 90% of damage to stuff, but someone else would get the killing blow with their quicker firing guns.  My score didnt reflect the damage dealt, but no-one thought i was being carried.

Likewise in this game no-one got carried, certainly i was getting the killing blow, but fickleness of the system makes my score look far better than other people's.  Without their help i could not kill stuff (covering my flanks, pulling aggro etc).  A random scoreboard screenshot does not convey contribution:

Image IPB




I see assist medals and 60K plus scores. Sure, you scored a lot higher than they did, but they were definitely pulling their weight. Maybe you played better than they did, or maybe your score was overinflated, but that scoreboard leads me to say that there is no evidence to state that your team mates played badly.

Modifié par Richter Harken, 23 août 2012 - 04:49 .


#321
epeeist

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First: I see a huge difference between "leeching" and being "carried". All leeches are carried; but not everyone who is "carried" is "leeching". And I only object to deliberate leeching. For instance, someone who is merely competent who joins in a match with highly skilled players with great weapons and experience with the game who have memorized all the spawn points and maps and kill 90% of everything, is being "carried", but not by choice, and is not "leeching".

Second: as some others have suggested, the score does not reflect efforts in downloading data, carrying the football/pizza, or protecting characters doing same at the expense of scoring lots of kills.

Third: If you help/try to help the team accomplish the mission (complete all waves), and you haven't screwed up too often/too badly (I, and I'm sure others, have had those run-towards-the-banshee type moments or mistakenly jumping over cover instead of duck behind it), then not only are you not "leeching", I also don't think you've been "carried" whatever the score or others think.

#322
upinya slayin

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Stinja wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

For instance, This guy here was carried.

I'm not saying he was a bad teammate. He tried, he wans't leeching, But in an U/U/G you get 40% more exp and he only netted 40k. only had 5 revives, 25 assist, and didn't get the 25 kill medal. He got carried. its plain and simple.


Not sure i agree.  Sometimes you dont get the killing blow, and it effects your score.  You are contributing, but your score is not reflective, for instance the other day i was using a Black Widow;  i'd keep doing 90% of damage to stuff, but someone else would get the killing blow with their quicker firing guns.  My score didnt reflect the damage dealt, but no-one thought i was being carried.

Likewise in this game no-one got carried, certainly i was getting the killing blow, but fickleness of the system makes my score look far better than other people's.  Without their help i could not kill stuff (covering my flanks, pulling aggro etc).  A random scoreboard screenshot does not convey contribution:

Image IPB




he didn't even get a 50 assist medal though so that wasn't the case. it means he literally targeted less then 50 enemies in the game cuase even 1 bullet or power is enough to net you an assist

#323
LuckyBullet95

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nicethugbert wrote...

LuckyBullet95 wrote...

nicethugbert I was in a public Glacier game yesterday and scored 120k whilst everyone else scored 40k, I was running and gunning, they weren't. The match took 16 minutes and 41 seconds without rockets... room of shame campers actually helped me by staying out of the way though to be fair (Demolisher wasn't stealing Nades from the ammo boxes/they helped forced spawns topside for me to clear). I don't think any of them even had a 25 kill medal and none of them did objectives.


You know such matches can take longer too.  So, what exactly is score indicative of if various scenarios occur independant of score?




Score is a baseline measurement of the amount of damage done, the amount of KILLING done. Each wave has a wave budget (apart from 3, 6, 10 and 11),  this is a well known fact. The fact that I managed to score higher than all three combined shows that I did just as much work as all three combined. I killed thrice as much as everyone else, I revived thrice as much, assisted thrice as much. Add in the fact that they were killing instead of capping objectives meaning that most of their points in fact came from 3, 6 and 10 when I was otherwise occupied.

#324
sH0tgUn jUliA

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I think they should add to ones personal score if one does the pizza deliveries and those remote "disabling the indoctrination booster" things and a medal for doing them. As it is it is a team oriented goal that doesn't show up on the score sheet.

Suppose you're having a craptastic night aiming so you're doing all of them. Are you contributing? Or should you trade in your game? Is this what this is coming down to? And it is getting this way even down on bronze level.

[sarcasm]
Here's a tip for scoring big in PUGs: Don't do any of the goals except for the drones. Ignore the bosses. Go after the low hanging fruit. Kill the bosses last especially in a PUG. You will have one teammate who will be the hero. If they're being idiots, use a rocket on later waves and fire low for splash damage (try not to fire in between the legs, it's embarassing to miss that way unless there's a wall right behind). Run away from the banshees if you can. Ravagers are going to be a pain as are pyros. Know where the phantoms are and avoid them -- let your teammates kill them you can kill 6 - 8 assault troopers easily in the time it takes to kill a phantom.

Do this because it is not about a team effort. It is because one ass hole is going to b*tch about carrying you. It's the American way.[/sarcasm]

#325
Lucius Aelius

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nicethugbert wrote...

I'm still waiting on an explanation of how score specifically relates to anything in this game.


Not only have I repeatedly and fairly succinctly answered all of your questions, still you fail to understand, even despite having just said it yourself (in part), about different scores occuring in different ways.

As you quite rightly keep saying, score on it's own is next to meaningless. The one point where score on its own stops being meaningless is when no set of circumstances besides insufficient contribution can possibly explain the score in question. I think we can all agree someone at some point has a score so low that they just didn't do enough of the very important task of shooting at enemies, by far the #1 way to get points and generally a good idea in most shooting games.

As far as my comments on comparing the performance of players in any one match, score is only useful when taken together with (most effectively) first hand experience of a match. Commenting on any match you weren't in is pretty much just heresay (if not entirely just that), but when you were in the match, saw what happened throughout and then looked at the score and medals at the end, you can very easily put 2 and 2 together and get a sense of what went on.

This is only after extensively playing the game and seeing first hand all that transpires, but once you've seen all the situations for yourself and seen the scores they result in, you can take score (and medals, not to mention different scoring expectations of classes/builds when played well, map/enemy/difficulty, etc.) and put it together with everything else you saw to get a sense of that game and the sorts of contributions everyone made. As for carrying, someone can be said to have been carried when they didn't score more than the "bare minimum" as stated previously, which is a matter of opinion where the bare minimum lies, but a fact that there is such a minimum score.

For me (based upon my experience and as such in my opinion), anyone who extracts on U/U/G and only has 50k or less is someone who didn't pull their own weight, i.e. were carried, and is an example of someone who:

A) weren't playing up to their full potential, or

B) were playing above their skill level and should go down to Silver until they can do better.

Whatever the reason, below a certain number of points there is simply no amount of things you can do that aren't counted by score which are capable of outweighing a lack of what the score does count (mainly damage to enemies with a bonus for the kill, although capping objectives award as many points as a boss enemy if done ASAP, and support roles also award medals, such as revives and assists, which award some few thousands of extra points, all of which I've explained to you in particular repeatedly, and will not being doing again).

Wherever that line should be drawn is a matter of debate, but your persistent denial (and that of all those of like mind with your baseless hardline position) of the obvious facts aren't even allowing the debate to be held, so either wise up or kindly leave those of us who know what we're talking about to discuss this without your interference (not that I expect you to listen or even understand a word of what I'm saying, but this is me saying I'm done talking to you now, I tried to be nice and explain it all for you ad nauseam, but you just don't get it, and I have better things to do than keep at it ad infinitem). If you've been enlightened at last, hallelujah. If not, don't expect me to acknowledge any subsequent nonsensical questions, neither this thread nor this disussion come anywhere close to being worth the hassle.