396 réponses à ce sujet

[Miniditka77]

omgBAMF wrote...

Miniditka77 wrote...

Stealthy Mantis wrote...

lots of people have said that i should loose the arc pistol but if i put the same mods on any of the other pistols i have, the arc has higher DPS, because of the low levels of my Carnifex and Paladin

The Arc Pistol's DPS is extremely dependent on firing rate.  If  you can't pull your trigger at 550 rpm (and at almost 10 clicks a second, I wonder whether that's even possible without some kind of mouse mod), you're not doing the advertised DPS.  I don't think I can do more than 350 or 400 rpm on my best day, which would make the Arc Pistol inferior to a similarly-leveled Eagle for me.  If you can do 550 rpm, then good for you - keep using your Arc Pistol.

Another person that doesn't understand the Arc's power....

Everyone thinks the only way to use or max out the Arc is to get the ridiculous spam trigger going.  Nah, the secret to using the Arc is charge -> headshot.  The reason why the Arc is versatile is because of the fire select, meaning you charge for long range engagements and spam for close range (all headshots of course since the Arc has perfect accuracy).

No, you're right - I don't understand the Arc's power.  There's no way you're doing DPS that is comparable to the Carnifex if you're charge-firing with the Arc Pistol.  I'm talking purely from a numerical or statistical point of view - if you like the variety of firing modes that the Arc Pistol gives you, then by all means use it.  But both of those firing modes are likely doing lower DPS than any number of other weapons that you could be using in its place.

[SierraGHOSTN7]

Xbox, my friend.
Idiots. Idiots everywhere.
Change to PC.

[BoomDynamite]

Score does not matter.

[Lucius Aelius]

nicethugbert wrote...

Lucius Aelius wrote...

Match length has nothing to do with score directly, killing/damaging enemies is the only way to earn points (minus objectives, which not only award points, they also give more for completing them faster, not to mention that enemies keep respawning infinitely until the objective is finished, meaning longer objectives allow you to get more kills and thus more points). Objectives aside though, there is no correlation.

Then, it doesn't seem like anyone knows how this game works.  Until we know how it works, how can we say someone is carried?

Wait, now I'm confused, I saw a question and answered without realizing the person who asked was a forum regular and surely knew the answer already, so... Huh? Who doesn't know what? I'm thinking I answered a joke question without knowing, but where was the joke (apart from on me)?

[NOME]

People are jerks.

GI if played aggresively, I just learned how to use him yesterday, can annilate everything.

Using an op character to top up the scoreboard is nothing worth bragging about. Plus, I personally am very grateful to people who play support roles. I love to see paladins shield me when do objectives.

Score means nothing to me, I would kick the no.1 on scoreboard, if he is not helping the objectives and reviving others.

[Soggy-Snake-]

Well 33k is low for Gold. If you play support and do nothing but shoot things you will still end up at 50k minimum regardless of the other classes. But it depends on the context so no one should judge you off of that.

That being said scoring high with a GI is as hard as throwing a rock at the ground and hitting. High score =/= carry. So he was obviously a fool who could probably only play that class anyway.

[nicethugbert]

Lucius Aelius wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Lucius Aelius wrote...

Match length has nothing to do with score directly, killing/damaging enemies is the only way to earn points (minus objectives, which not only award points, they also give more for completing them faster, not to mention that enemies keep respawning infinitely until the objective is finished, meaning longer objectives allow you to get more kills and thus more points). Objectives aside though, there is no correlation.

Then, it doesn't seem like anyone knows how this game works.  Until we know how it works, how can we say someone is carried?

Wait, now I'm confused, I saw a question and answered without realizing the person who asked was a forum regular and surely knew the answer already, so... Huh? Who doesn't know what? I'm thinking I answered a joke question without knowing, but where was the joke (apart from on me)?

I'm being serious.  I don't know how the scoring system works.  I have some observations, but, no real knowledge of how it works and no one else seems to know either, unless they're protecting some precious secret.  Until we know how it works, how can we determine who is carrying who?

Incidentally, take a look at the scores in Efficient Platinum Farming: A Guide.  No one scored over 77k and the match lasted 14:47.  So, what is so special about high scores?  I'd rather get my credits fast then drag out the match for score.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 21 août 2012 - 12:16 .

[Lucius Aelius]

Score only matters as a relative thing, comparing scores among the players of any given match (weighted to account for class, e.g. an Infiltrator would be expected to score higher than most other classes, all else being equal) can at least roughly give an idea of what each player contributed. As a baseline though, 50k (IMO) is the bare minimum score on Gold a person can have and say they weren't carried (even then they'd have had to contribute in a non-scoring capacity on top of scoring 50k).

Even that's imprecise because choosing Unknown/Unknown gives extra experience, in a match with everything specifically chosen I suppose the bar could be lowered to 40k, but below that you can't say you weren't carried.

A noted exception is of course the FQI with Sabotage, which has its own set of norms to go by (obviously Sabotage awards no points, and I haven't played enough with players using the FQI to feel comfortable pinning down hard numbers for what would be a good score). Suffice it to say it's all very imprecise, but rough comparisons of scores can be made that are at least somewhat meaningful (and of course the less someone knows about the context of a given match, the harder it is to judge just by looking at the scoreboard at the end).

[ExpiredLifetime]

You should have told him he only scored 105k as a GI, so he's not as good as he thinks he is.
Then left the match.

[RGFrog]

yaaaa! double post

Modifié par RGFrog, 21 août 2012 - 01:14 .

[RGFrog]

In game score is just as much use as N7 ranking. Those that pay attention to such are not worth much attention themselves.

Now, had OP been revived 5 times a wave, dead on objective waves and dead on extraction, carry is a good term. Clearly not the case.

Lucius Aelius wrote...

Score only matters as a relative thing, comparing scores among the players of any given match (weighted to account for class, e.g. an Infiltrator would be expected to score higher than most other classes, all else being equal) can at least roughly give an idea of what each player contributed. As a baseline though, 50k (IMO) is the bare minimum score on Gold a person can have and say they weren't carried (even then they'd have had to contribute in a non-scoring capacity on top of scoring 50k).

Even that's imprecise because choosing Unknown/Unknown gives extra experience, in a match with everything specifically chosen I suppose the bar could be lowered to 40k, but below that you can't say you weren't carried.

A noted exception is of course the FQI with Sabotage, which has its own set of norms to go by (obviously Sabotage awards no points, and I haven't played enough with players using the FQI to feel comfortable pinning down hard numbers for what would be a good score). Suffice it to say it's all very imprecise, but rough comparisons of scores can be made that are at least somewhat meaningful (and of course the less someone knows about the context of a given match, the harder it is to judge just by looking at the scoreboard at the end).

I can consistently score less than 30k on a gold run playing SE while doing nothing but keeping the team alive and the targets bottle-necked and easily killable (been doing it since release). And if I score more than 40k I can guarantee that I carried the rest of the team.

Scores are only there for the elitist that needs his/her ego stroked.

There's only two things that really matter: The amount of time needed to finish the match and the bonuses resulting in extra credits.

[Cheesystick]

nicethugbert wrote...

I'm being serious.  I don't know how the scoring system works.  I have some observations, but, no real knowledge of how it works and no one else seems to know either, unless they're protecting some precious secret.  Until we know how it works, how can we determine who is carrying who?

Incidentally, take a look at the scores in Efficient Platinum Farming: A Guide.  No one scored over 77k and the match lasted 14:47.  So, what is so special about high scores?  I'd rather get my credits fast then drag out the match for score.

Well when I get 160k+, bottom 3 are less than 60k and used most of my consumables in a 30+ min game, I feel I had carried the team and it was my fault for staying in the lobby, which is really rare. If someone had a overly high score on my team and I had 20k didn't use ammo mods/equipment nor willing to use consumables, like at least  using a missile on two bosses, I know I had been carried.

But those are extremely rare conditions, when it comes to normal games (16-26 mins), top 3 scores are around 60k and the fourth person scored 20k, no one was carried; if the fourth person wasn't there, the spawns wouldn't of been manipulated in our favor, if he had smart missile usage even better. Also the only reason he probably had a very low score was because the enemies spawned closer to the other three, while he prevented enemies from spawning behind, as in not camping, but following the team close enough to revive. He mght also of been distracting banshees/brutes by kiting them away, thereby making small mobs spawn closer to the team allowing them to clear them easier and maybe faster.

Speedruns(16 mins or less) and normal games(16-26 mins) with everyone scoring 100k+ points are just doing some unneccessary fun killing during objective waves, as in they were finishing off bosses before the time ran out, running around grenading random mobs during pizza, killing gaurdians miles away, etc; or they were playing glacier and had everyone at different spots to get to an objective faster, killing spawns before they can react, or maybe even had a hack in a hot spot like the middle hack in goddess.

Top person with a 60-80k score,  assuming there was little unneccesary killing/or those other conditions, is usually the sweet spot where I want to be because usually it meant that no one was carried and the game finished in 16-26 mins or less. If the game lasted 34+ mins, again very rare, meant someone was carried and/or the rest of the team did average or maybe the team composition was bad in general and everyone should feel bad for doing bad.

[madmaxmovies]

I can consistently score less than 30k on a gold run playing SE while doing nothing but keeping the team alive and the targets bottle-necked and easily killable (been doing it since release). And if I score more than 40k I can guarantee that I carried the rest of the team.

Scores are only there for the elitist that needs his/her ego stroked.

In general I would agree with this, although scores are still a good general indicator.

The group I was playing with carried another guy on Platinum recently, he did drop in on about Wave 5 after another player exited, but still only managed to score 15K by game end (I was 150K, the other two about 65K each). But it wasn't just his score - he kept dying early in most waves, never once revived himself when no one else could get to him, and never used a missile either as far as I could see (which his score kind of confirmed). So the score alone wouldn't have been an issue, if he stayed alive and was contributing / reviving, but that's not what was happening.

I actually wasn't that bothered during the game, I figured it was an inexperienced player (no problem carrying someone that needs a boost), but when we got back to the lobby and his N7 rating was 1000 more than mine, well...

Modifié par madmaxmovies, 21 août 2012 - 01:45 .

[Acyl]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Also you're using the Paladin, one of the few classes able to (when played properly) nearly match scores with a well-played GI. No excuses for scoring so low when using the Pally.

This kind of bothers me. I mean, yes, the Paladin can be played aggressively. And I personally think that's the best way to do it - as a mid-range/melee character. 

But playing the Paladin defensively, using the shield a lot, hanging back and working the Energy Drain...it's a legitimate choice. I don't think it's the best choice. I don't think it's the optimal choice. But if someone wants to do it...it can work. And they still can contribute. If they're contributing, that's good enough. That's sort of the point of this thread.

There's tons of folks here telling the OP - you're playing Paladin wrong, you shouldn't use the Arc Pistol...c'mon, folks. Seriously? Think about how ridiculous it sounds. Advice is fine. Advice is helpful. But when it becomes preaching the message of the ONE TRUE GAMEPLAY STYLE, that's...sorta silly.

Modifié par Acyl, 21 août 2012 - 02:26 .

[Lucius Aelius]

RGFrog wrote...

In game score is just as much use as N7 ranking. Those that pay attention to such are not worth much attention themselves.

Now, had OP been revived 5 times a wave, dead on objective waves and dead on extraction, carry is a good term. Clearly not the case.

Lucius Aelius wrote...

Score only matters as a relative thing, comparing scores among the players of any given match (weighted to account for class, e.g. an Infiltrator would be expected to score higher than most other classes, all else being equal) can at least roughly give an idea of what each player contributed. As a baseline though, 50k (IMO) is the bare minimum score on Gold a person can have and say they weren't carried (even then they'd have had to contribute in a non-scoring capacity on top of scoring 50k).

Even that's imprecise because choosing Unknown/Unknown gives extra experience, in a match with everything specifically chosen I suppose the bar could be lowered to 40k, but below that you can't say you weren't carried.

A noted exception is of course the FQI with Sabotage, which has its own set of norms to go by (obviously Sabotage awards no points, and I haven't played enough with players using the FQI to feel comfortable pinning down hard numbers for what would be a good score). Suffice it to say it's all very imprecise, but rough comparisons of scores can be made that are at least somewhat meaningful (and of course the less someone knows about the context of a given match, the harder it is to judge just by looking at the scoreboard at the end).

I can consistently score less than 30k on a gold run playing SE while doing nothing but keeping the team alive and the targets bottle-necked and easily killable (been doing it since release). And if I score more than 40k I can guarantee that I carried the rest of the team.

Scores are only there for the elitist that needs his/her ego stroked.

There's only two things that really matter: The amount of time needed to finish the match and the bonuses resulting in extra credits.

My post was an abbreviated summary of my analysis of score and its usefulness as a gauge of player skill, an addendum I should have added is that it's a rough analyis and I only made it since I stopped camping and that the SE is another character like the FQI that requires special consideration. I don't care about score beyond it being such a gauge, and insofar as score misrepresents contribution, so to does my regard for score diminish.

That being said I'm gonna have to call bull**** on your ridiculous claim that you carry people starting at 40k, assuming it was on Gold that you're talking about that's just laughable. You need to learn the definition of being carried, a score of anything so low as that cannot coincide with you carrying a team, even if you were reviving like crazy it's still your fault for not doing enough to kill enemies and as such stop your allies from dying in the first place. From your description I'd say you regularly play respectably well and that you can hold your own when the team needs you, but carrying and still having as low a score as that? I don't think so. Whatever you're ability (I really couldn't say, I don't know you), carrying doesn't begin until you dramatically surpass the rest of your team, which simply isn't possible to do and still have that low a score, not even as a SE.

[hypnotizedmind]

Scoreboard is f*cking meaningless.

Just worry about the damn objectives.

[landylan]

I scored 170k earlier today. Snap freeze is crazy good for bosses and mobs. Energy drain gets you shields back, so you never have to stop fighting. He's not a good defensive character. Go kill stuff. It'll help your team more.

Geth hunters shoot through the shield anyways.

[blacksheepD]

33k is terrible for Gold. Terrible. You know you have to kill things right? The amount of enemies on Gold makes it hard to score that low. You should be on SIlver/Bronze seriously. Put it this way, if everyone on your team had scored 33k, you wouldn't of been close to making it. You were being carried BIG TIME. Players who don't know their level are making this game too annoying.

Modifié par blacksheepD, 21 août 2012 - 06:09 .

[DullahansXMark]

Don't you see what happened? He's obviously better than you because he can actually manage to kill things with a Geth Infiltrator.

/obvious sarcasm

[Xaijin]

Stealthy Mantis wrote...

I just finished a firebase Dagger, Geth, Gold, was bottom of the score board with 33k, top had 105k but was using GI. I was using Paladin with arc pistol and Piranha, i constantly was reviving the two others in the game and was most of the time only one doing objectives. on the nonobjective waves i consistantly was taking fire from the primes, hunters and rocket troopers while allowing the others to get behind them. Yet at the end of the match the GI has the nerve to plug him mic in and tell me to get lost as he didnt want to carry my lazy backside any more. 

Can someone please tell me how i was just carried?

Your signature tells us why, a shining beacon all alone in the night.

[WaffleCrab]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Acyl wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Also you're using the Paladin, one of the few classes able to (when played properly) nearly match scores with a well-played GI. No excuses for scoring so low when using the Pally.

This kind of bothers me. I mean, yes, the Paladin can be played aggressively. And I personally think that's the best way to do it - as a mid-range/melee character. 

But playing the Paladin defensively, using the shield a lot, hanging back and working the Energy Drain...it's a legitimate choice. I don't think it's the best choice. I don't think it's the optimal choice. But if someone wants to do it...it can work. And they still can contribute. If they're contributing, that's good enough. That's sort of the point of this thread.

There's tons of folks here telling the OP - you're playing Paladin wrong, you shouldn't use the Arc Pistol...c'mon, folks. Seriously? Think about how ridiculous it sounds. Advice is fine. Advice is helpful. But when it becomes preaching the message of the ONE TRUE GAMEPLAY STYLE, that's...sorta silly.

If you play the Paladin in such a way that you only score 33k in a Gold, that's fine. But don't try to claim you weren't carried while doing so.

Even playing defensively, the Paladin should get at least 60k. Snap freeze alone should account for a ton of assists etc.

I suck at using the Paladin (never had much practice) but I have never scored anything like only 33k while playing him.

Playing defensively as pally means your team has a huge impact on your score, it all comes down to how many of the enemies trickle down to you it also depends where and who you try to defend mainly, as you cant defend everyone all the time, especially in a PuG game.

[WaffleCrab]

Miniditka77 wrote...

omgBAMF wrote...

Miniditka77 wrote...

Stealthy Mantis wrote...

lots of people have said that i should loose the arc pistol but if i put the same mods on any of the other pistols i have, the arc has higher DPS, because of the low levels of my Carnifex and Paladin

The Arc Pistol's DPS is extremely dependent on firing rate.  If  you can't pull your trigger at 550 rpm (and at almost 10 clicks a second, I wonder whether that's even possible without some kind of mouse mod), you're not doing the advertised DPS.  I don't think I can do more than 350 or 400 rpm on my best day, which would make the Arc Pistol inferior to a similarly-leveled Eagle for me.  If you can do 550 rpm, then good for you - keep using your Arc Pistol.

Another person that doesn't understand the Arc's power....

Everyone thinks the only way to use or max out the Arc is to get the ridiculous spam trigger going.  Nah, the secret to using the Arc is charge -> headshot.  The reason why the Arc is versatile is because of the fire select, meaning you charge for long range engagements and spam for close range (all headshots of course since the Arc has perfect accuracy).

No, you're right - I don't understand the Arc's power.  There's no way you're doing DPS that is comparable to the Carnifex if you're charge-firing with the Arc Pistol.  I'm talking purely from a numerical or statistical point of view - if you like the variety of firing modes that the Arc Pistol gives you, then by all means use it.  But both of those firing modes are likely doing lower DPS than any number of other weapons that you could be using in its place.

Hes not talking numbers here, hes talking practical things. in practice you can do same dps with it as carnifex with less weight. also no, the rapid fire mode does more damage / shot than phalanx but with more accuracy. the charge shot does more damage than carnifex with same or better accuracy. Just goes to show that people who stare at numbers alone suck at this game, and looks like your one of them, hope i never run into you in a lobby, since you propably vote people with arc pistol.