112 réponses à ce sujet

[Vox Draco]

DinoSteve wrote...

I won't think it would be commercially viable to have a female only protagonist on the cover.

I guess this might depend on the amount of cleavage shown...

[Blackrising]

I really really want a trailer with the female default protagonist.
Not because I care about what's canon or not, but simply because I know I will be playing a female and watching a trailer with a female protagonist gets me a lot more excited than watching one with a male one. Now if the also show her with a female love interest, that would pretty much get them a 'Get out of jail' card from me....for the next few years at least.
DA 2 had a 'male trailer', so it's only fair to have a 'female trailer' for DA 3. I just love seeing things that tell me that humanity is progressing and not stuck in their ignorant ways.

[Blackrising]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Hopefully if they do FemQuisitor marketing they don't make her as weird looking as FemShep in ME3.
I'm still dumbfounded by how they screwed up the art-to-game transition with FemShep's face so badly.

Oh god, this.When I first saw a picture of her I thought she was really attractive. And then I got the game and realized they made her look like a retarded cat. Gone was my appreciation and I switched back to my trusty old custom FemShep.

[Giltspur]

I don't think featuring both Marion and Garrett Hawke in trailers would have caused Dragon Age II to sell any less than it did with just Garrett Hawke.  Show both male and female PC for DA3.  There's also reason to include a female in the marketing.   Women are an audience Bioware can actually grow, given what Bioware is best at.  And some women (even moreso than men, it seems) are more inclined to identify with or imagine themselves as a character than to view it as some third-person entity to be manipulated from afar.  And so showing a female as main character has some usefulness when marketing to them.  It would be wise to feature a male prominently as well though.

[The Elder King]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Hopefully if they do FemQuisitor marketing they don't make her as weird looking as FemShep in ME3.
I'm still dumbfounded by how they screwed up the art-to-game transition with FemShep's face so badly.

Agreed.
About the OP, I don't care much if they'll make a iconic female or male for DA3. Hell, they could even make an iconic shriek or arcane horror, if they'll make a good game I wouldn't care.

[Blackrising]

If they look similiar enough, they might not even have to make two seperate trailers. They could just include them both in one trailer where they sort of pass onto each other. Like, at the beginning, we would see the male default fighting a horde of enemies. Cut, and we see the female default continuing the fight. That could look pretty awesome, provided they manage to make it clear enough as to not confuse the viewers.

[syllogi]

Blackrising wrote...

If they look similiar enough, they might not even have to make two seperate trailers. They could just include them both in one trailer where they sort of pass onto each other. Like, at the beginning, we would see the male default fighting a horde of enemies. Cut, and we see the female default continuing the fight. That could look pretty awesome, provided they manage to make it clear enough as to not confuse the viewers.

I think cutting back and forth between the DA3 versions of Garrett and Marian wearing the same "iconic" gear would be a nice way to do it.

Having them side by side might lead people to think that they're twins.  Which would be awesome, but I don't know how playing two player characters at the same time could work.

[Cimeas]

The Trailer main character will always be male as long as the audience remains that way. Weren't only like 20% of Shepards created Femsheps? And that's despite the near universal praise of Jennifer Hale's (melodramatic, overdone) voice acting.

Not that I wouldn't appreciate them changing it up, quite the contrary in fact, but marketing is marketing and while the overall gaming audience is getting close to 50/50 Male/Female, the 'core' audience is still male dominated.

[cogsandcurls]

Blackrising wrote...

If they look similiar enough, they might not even have to make two seperate trailers. They could just include them both in one trailer where they sort of pass onto each other. Like, at the beginning, we would see the male default fighting a horde of enemies. Cut, and we see the female default continuing the fight. That could look pretty awesome, provided they manage to make it clear enough as to not confuse the viewers.

That would have been awesome.

@Cimeas: to be fair, one of the ways to get more women INTO that core demographic is to show in marketing that the games aren't quite as dude-focused as one would think. Giving the DA3 equivalent of Marian some visibility doesn't single-handedly solve that marketing problem of course, but it would help.

Modifié par cogsandcurls, 21 août 2012 - 11:17 .

[mad825]

Just goes to show that people care more about the advertising than the actual game.

[Reznore57]

mad825 wrote...

Just goes to show that people care more about the advertising than the actual game.

That's not the point.
I don't know , if you're a man or a woman...but as a woman the idea that women can be badass fighters just like men isn't super popular.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist , but it's not really reflected in media.
Usually what's reflected in media is pretty woman in bikini...i have nothing against it , but anything that gives the idea that gender doesn't trap you into a role is nice.
Even for men.

[Merci357]

Reznore57 wrote...

mad825 wrote...

Just goes to show that people care more about the advertising than the actual game.

That's not the point.
I don't know , if you're a man or a woman...but as a woman the idea that women can be badass fighters just like men isn't super popular.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist , but it's not really reflected in media.
Usually what's reflected in media is pretty woman in bikini...i have nothing against it , but anything that gives the idea that gender doesn't trap you into a role is nice.
Even for men.

Not just "even" for men, they are even more trapped in their perceived gender role. This difference is, most seem to be quite content with this role and don't want to break it.

That said, there's plenty of media that does break with this, though it's only common in novels/books (the whole "urban fantasy" genre is most often with strong female leads). Happens in movies and games as well, but sadly it's still rarer then I'd like.

And on topic, I'd like to see an iconic female lead used in some marketing for DA3. Remember ME2, were you almost had to bed for a screenshot of Femshep? The Marketing campaign for ME3 was far better, there were some trailers, screenshots, wallpapers, and that's fine. It doesn't have to be the sole focus, but don't hide her like in the past.

[Kidd]

Yeah, and the idea of a strong woman in media today is usually a woman who uses her "womanly attributes" to manipulate men. In turn, she plays her cards right and ends up winning.

In a way that's not completely her winning though. It's more like the men failed to hold the status quo and screwed up, and the woman is capitalising on that. Compare that to a woman flinging huge fireballs or huge swords around and her strength is much more apparent and obvious, with no need at any extra dialogue or anything to drive the point home.

[FeralEwok]

Generally I hated most of BW's marketing with ME3. The twitter, facebook, like this or that and we will give you something to gawk at, the preorder dlc spots, and basically anything that wasn't just a simple trailer. I did like the fact though they added two trailers for femshep. It not only was an added bonus to femshep's established fanbase, but could have helped invite more women to try out Mass Effect. Really in that scenario everybody wins. So I'd say it couldn't hurt for them to do it again with DA3. 

[Merci357]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Yeah, and the idea of a strong woman in media today is usually a woman who uses her "womanly attributes" to manipulate men. In turn, she plays her cards right and ends up winning.

In a way that's not completely her winning though. It's more like the men failed to hold the status quo and screwed up, and the woman is capitalising on that. Compare that to a woman flinging huge fireballs or huge swords around and her strength is much more apparent and obvious, with no need at any extra dialogue or anything to drive the point home.

We'll get there, I hope. But that's one of the reasons why I (and I can't possibly be the only one) like to play a female in Bioware games. There's no need to explain why a female could possibly be the hero, it's just a given. And marketing could and should capitalize on this, like they tried with ME3.

[Cimeas]

cogsandcurls wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

If they look similiar enough, they might not even have to make two seperate trailers. They could just include them both in one trailer where they sort of pass onto each other. Like, at the beginning, we would see the male default fighting a horde of enemies. Cut, and we see the female default continuing the fight. That could look pretty awesome, provided they manage to make it clear enough as to not confuse the viewers.

That would have been awesome.

@Cimeas: to be fair, one of the ways to get more women INTO that core demographic is to show in marketing that the games aren't quite as dude-focused as one would think. Giving the DA3 equivalent of Marian some visibility doesn't single-handedly solve that marketing problem of course, but it would help.

Sure, but is Dragon Age really the trailblazer for that?  I daresay it's audience is more the people who already know and play RPGs, and sadly as we know that audience is mostly male for a fact. 

[cogsandcurls]

Cimeas wrote...

cogsandcurls wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

If they look similiar enough, they might not even have to make two seperate trailers. They could just include them both in one trailer where they sort of pass onto each other. Like, at the beginning, we would see the male default fighting a horde of enemies. Cut, and we see the female default continuing the fight. That could look pretty awesome, provided they manage to make it clear enough as to not confuse the viewers.

That would have been awesome.

@Cimeas: to be fair, one of the ways to get more women INTO that core demographic is to show in marketing that the games aren't quite as dude-focused as one would think. Giving the DA3 equivalent of Marian some visibility doesn't single-handedly solve that marketing problem of course, but it would help.

Sure, but is Dragon Age really the trailblazer for that?  I daresay it's audience is more the people who already know and play RPGs, and sadly as we know that audience is mostly male for a fact. 

Anecdotal evidence I know, but: I'm a woman and DA:O is the first proper western RPG I ever played (although I used to play JRPGs a lot). Grew up in a gaming household full of oldies like Diablo, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter etc: and although I'm a big fantasy fan I just wasn't interested enough in them to make the jump into a new genre. We had a copy of DA:O sitting in our house for 2 years: wasn't interested. Then I found out through word of mouth online that you could pick your origin, play a lady if you liked, romance people how you liked. THEN I bought it.

Likewise, I've never played anything remotely shootery for any sustained length of time before Mass Effect, and I only started paying attention to it once FemShep was getting loads of coverage on various gaming websites between the release of ME2 and ME3. I'd seen a lot about it before but Sheploo came across a bit Bland Short-Haired Space Marine for my tastes and didn't catch my interest. There's more to BOTH of these series than the marketing/the gender stuff, obviously, but you've got to catch my interest with the marketing or word of mouth before I start caring about the plight of the Krogans, if you catch my drift.

So I guess I'd say BW is already a trailblazer in that regard; I know I'm not the only one who came to this genre through these games.

[syllogi]

Cimeas wrote...

cogsandcurls wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

If they look similiar enough, they might not even have to make two seperate trailers. They could just include them both in one trailer where they sort of pass onto each other. Like, at the beginning, we would see the male default fighting a horde of enemies. Cut, and we see the female default continuing the fight. That could look pretty awesome, provided they manage to make it clear enough as to not confuse the viewers.

That would have been awesome.

@Cimeas: to be fair, one of the ways to get more women INTO that core demographic is to show in marketing that the games aren't quite as dude-focused as one would think. Giving the DA3 equivalent of Marian some visibility doesn't single-handedly solve that marketing problem of course, but it would help.

Sure, but is Dragon Age really the trailblazer for that?  I daresay it's audience is more the people who already know and play RPGs, and sadly as we know that audience is mostly male for a fact. 

I grew up in a household of comic books, pen and paper roleplaying games, and sci-fi and fantasy novels, so it was pretty easy for me to make the transition into CRPGs, as a female gamer.  I'm actually surprised when people say that women don't/wouldn't like RPGs, especially Bioware's, but I don't have statistics (and citing the Mass Effect 2 stats doesn't really apply here, that's a different audience, and there's plenty of people who play one franchise and stay away from the other, both male and female).  It just seems like a natural fit for female fantasy fans who would enjoy the setting and of course, since we're stereotyping here, the romances.

I also knew a lot of women who played World of Warcraft with me, but who knows how many enjoy single player RPGs.  But yeah, marketing to female gamers who enjoy fantasy seems like a no-brainer.

[Potato Cat]

Unfortunately this won't happen. Sad face. Well, it might, but she'd be overly sexualised.

[meanieweenie]

syllogi wrote...

Cimeas wrote...

cogsandcurls wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

If they look similiar enough, they might not even have to make two seperate trailers. They could just include them both in one trailer where they sort of pass onto each other. Like, at the beginning, we would see the male default fighting a horde of enemies. Cut, and we see the female default continuing the fight. That could look pretty awesome, provided they manage to make it clear enough as to not confuse the viewers.

That would have been awesome.

@Cimeas: to be fair, one of the ways to get more women INTO that core demographic is to show in marketing that the games aren't quite as dude-focused as one would think. Giving the DA3 equivalent of Marian some visibility doesn't single-handedly solve that marketing problem of course, but it would help.

Sure, but is Dragon Age really the trailblazer for that?  I daresay it's audience is more the people who already know and play RPGs, and sadly as we know that audience is mostly male for a fact. 

I grew up in a household of comic books, pen and paper roleplaying games, and sci-fi and fantasy novels, so it was pretty easy for me to make the transition into CRPGs, as a female gamer.  I'm actually surprised when people say that women don't/wouldn't like RPGs, especially Bioware's, but I don't have statistics (and citing the Mass Effect 2 stats doesn't really apply here, that's a different audience, and there's plenty of people who play one franchise and stay away from the other, both male and female).  It just seems like a natural fit for female fantasy fans who would enjoy the setting and of course, since we're stereotyping here, the romances.

I also knew a lot of women who played World of Warcraft with me, but who knows how many enjoy single player RPGs.  But yeah, marketing to female gamers who enjoy fantasy seems like a no-brainer.

I will say that I, for one, am that female fantasy gamer. I tried ME2.... not my thing. I'm a sword and board gal. I don't like the MMO. I play by myself because it's an escape from RL. No husband. No kids. I prefer story over action but don't mind killing a few a-holes that need it.

Edit: I'll add that I don't necessarily avoid the over sexualized concept because that's the kind of girl they never expect to whip thier a**es in reality.  LOL

Modifié par meanieweenie, 22 août 2012 - 01:03 .

[cogsandcurls]

Re: the statistics for Femshep, I'd be REALLY interested to see how it lines up compared to a game like DA2, because DA2 had a really nice initial character select screen where for once, M!Hawke wasn't the default. I'm absolutely convinced one of the main things that skews these results is just player apathy/impatience: e.g. if Sheploo is the default and you have to make a conscious decision to go and change you selection to FemShep, lots of people who just want to get on with the game are going to go with default male Shepard. Yes, demographics play a part and yes, in the case of DA:O maybe the crazy skew of which origins were played most say something about what kind of avatar the player would most relate to, but never underestimate the power of apathy. The default setting will always get a positive skew simply for being the default.

[Blackrising]

The argument that 'only a trailer with a male will be made because the core audience is male and doesn't want to see a female' is bull if you ask me.Not only is the goal of marketing bringing new players into the mix (which woud be most successful if aimed at the female audience), but I know plenty of guys that like to play a female protagonist, just as there are many girls who usually play males.
Although I admit that I can't really emphasize with people who are new to RPGs as I grew up watching my uncle play them all the time, so it's hard to say what would really attract them more. In the end, I really think a trailer advertising both is a good idea.
It satisfies the males who want who want to see a big, strong male as well as the females who want to see them represented and it's a step in the right direction as far as equality goes.

[SerTabris]

Personally, the stuff I had read about being able to play a female character, have various romantic options, and all of the other inclusive-type stuff is part of what sold me on getting BioWare's games, and I think that marketing reflecting that would be able to reach a wider audience.

Also, I don't know anything about other marketing for it, but Jade Empire used one of the female main characters as the most prominent on its cover (I think the next most prominent was one of the male main character choices). Although I suppose that might not help my case that much.