Anyone else sick and tired of Mage/Rogue/Warrior classes? Let's take a look at say NWN2 a 2009 release RPG.
Arcane ArcherArcane Scholar of CandlekeepArcane TricksterAssassinBarbarianBardBlackguardClericDivine ChampionDoomguideDruidDuelistDwarven DefenderEldritch KnightFavored SoulFighterFrenzied BerserkerHarper AgentHellfire WarlockInvisible BladeMonkNeverwinter NinePaladinPale masterRangerRed Dragon DiscipleRed Wizard of ThayRogueSacred FistShadow Thief of Amn (class)ShadowdancerSorcererSpirit ShamanStormlordSwashbucklerWarlockWarpriestWeapon MasterWizard
And let's not even mention the races
Dwarf with 3 subracesElf with 5 subracesGnome with 2 subracesHalfling with 2 subracesHalf-elf with 2 subracesHalf-OrcGrey-OrcHumanPlaintouched with 6 subraces
How can a game released in 2012 have less content?
So my point is why do we always get the generic
Mage/Rogue/Warrior ? Is it so hard and so difficult to make some other class? And screw the "people like the familiar stuff" crap because we had that excuse served up 1 to many times. People want new things you cant just keep giving the same old thing over and over. You can but less and less people will buy your games.
Dragon Age 3 classes
Débuté par
Obro
, août 20 2012 05:58
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#2
Posté 20 août 2012 - 06:11
Olmerto
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You seem to like the class bloat that D&D 3.5 had. I'd like specializtions in DA to be a little more intense and worked into the story, but I've got nothing against the 3 basic classes we have. Perhaps more deeply involving specializtions will appeal to you.
#3
Posté 20 août 2012 - 06:17
Obro
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I was just making comparisons. I don't even play D&D my only experience with it was through these games. My point is even though many classes feel similar they still have their own thing. And you can make them even more diverse with feats and different stats also something that was completely removed from DA.
Since when are feats evil that must be purged from RPG games?
Why must we always get a mage class that shoots fireballs? Why can't we get a.. arcane spec. Or a necromancer or a mage that relies completely on stealth magic and illusion? Why cant we have a fist fighter? Also the Warrior/Rogue classes in DA universe are completely the ****ing same unless you went for archery in Rogue. It's disgusting that it's even called a rogue when you cant even make traps or have unlocking abilities. They are just another DPS class. And nothing more.
What happened to "find a crate what will you do" and then you are forced to bash a lock damaging the items because you didn't bring a rogue with you? Even with the 3 basic skinned down classes they are even more homogenized with this lack of flavour.
Since when are feats evil that must be purged from RPG games?
Why must we always get a mage class that shoots fireballs? Why can't we get a.. arcane spec. Or a necromancer or a mage that relies completely on stealth magic and illusion? Why cant we have a fist fighter? Also the Warrior/Rogue classes in DA universe are completely the ****ing same unless you went for archery in Rogue. It's disgusting that it's even called a rogue when you cant even make traps or have unlocking abilities. They are just another DPS class. And nothing more.
What happened to "find a crate what will you do" and then you are forced to bash a lock damaging the items because you didn't bring a rogue with you? Even with the 3 basic skinned down classes they are even more homogenized with this lack of flavour.
#4
Posté 20 août 2012 - 09:42
MoogleCoat
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While I do like the idea of punching monsters to death because that would be the most badass thing ever...
More content does not = Better content, its about quality as well having more classes that end up feeling the same seems pointless to me, and seems like it would take a lot more work for little reason. However, placing NWN2 and Dragon Age 2 side by side, I think you have the same level of control in the kind of character you can make. Ok so, NWN2 has more options but, again they all feel similar aside from a few details or flavour. In the end it follows the same format, pick base class, develop them in a certain playstyle, (DA has skil trees, NWN2 has feats, and the option to multiclass) and then pick a prestige class or specializations.
Furthermore, you can design a diffrent kind of mage, my mage never shot fire unless it was in a cutscene, and I took skills that made others stop or gave them effects and ran around like a crazy. my rouge never took a single thing that could make her invisible, instead she took sustains and passives that made her tanky and ran in there like a sucicdal manaic, and you still do well, its not optimized, but it can be done. Just like in NWN2, while the Ranger can use the bow, that would be stupid because bows suck in NWN2, BUT you can still beat the game with it. (Also, I am planning to play as a monk in DAO, so I'll tell you if that can be done or not).
Although I do agree with you on the Feats/Skills thing.
As a side note, did anyone reliaze that DA2 and NWN2 is very similar in terms of plot?
More content does not = Better content, its about quality as well having more classes that end up feeling the same seems pointless to me, and seems like it would take a lot more work for little reason. However, placing NWN2 and Dragon Age 2 side by side, I think you have the same level of control in the kind of character you can make. Ok so, NWN2 has more options but, again they all feel similar aside from a few details or flavour. In the end it follows the same format, pick base class, develop them in a certain playstyle, (DA has skil trees, NWN2 has feats, and the option to multiclass) and then pick a prestige class or specializations.
Furthermore, you can design a diffrent kind of mage, my mage never shot fire unless it was in a cutscene, and I took skills that made others stop or gave them effects and ran around like a crazy. my rouge never took a single thing that could make her invisible, instead she took sustains and passives that made her tanky and ran in there like a sucicdal manaic, and you still do well, its not optimized, but it can be done. Just like in NWN2, while the Ranger can use the bow, that would be stupid because bows suck in NWN2, BUT you can still beat the game with it. (Also, I am planning to play as a monk in DAO, so I'll tell you if that can be done or not).
Although I do agree with you on the Feats/Skills thing.
As a side note, did anyone reliaze that DA2 and NWN2 is very similar in terms of plot?
#5
Posté 20 août 2012 - 10:10
ianvillan
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Most of the Archery skills in DA2 were magical in nature like shoot a hundred arrows in the air, fire a magic bolt that goes through people and makes someone explode,and shoot a fire ball so in effect you had an arcane archer anyway.
#6
Guest_BrotherWarth_*
Posté 20 août 2012 - 10:26
Guest_BrotherWarth_*
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I would like the specializations to be more than just additional moves. The Arcane Warrior spec was awesome because it changed the way the mage played. I would like to see specializations that either strengthen a class' traits(like Force Mage) or make the class a mix of another(like Arcane Warrior).
The Force Mage specialization works well with pretty much every other mage skill tree and makes the mage a badass spellslinger. The Arcane Warrior spec blends mage and warrior classes to awesome effect, but for balances' sake could be made to focus more on spellcasting with melee and less on making the mage an invulnerable tank. Then a spec that mixes the mage with the rogue by adding stealth skills and giving access to daggers/bows could make the mage much more versatile in controlling the battlefield.
And as long as these mixed specializations put more emphasis on the base class than the elements added from the other class then each of the 3 classes could do this. The Templar spec is already basically a mix of warrior and mage and they could give warriors dual-wielding again with a warrior-rogue spec. Then rogues could use light shields with a rogue-warrior spec and set up glyphs and wards as traps with a rogue-mage spec.
If all of this comes across as rushed or nonsensical it's because I'm ridiculously tired and hopped up on caffeine.
The Force Mage specialization works well with pretty much every other mage skill tree and makes the mage a badass spellslinger. The Arcane Warrior spec blends mage and warrior classes to awesome effect, but for balances' sake could be made to focus more on spellcasting with melee and less on making the mage an invulnerable tank. Then a spec that mixes the mage with the rogue by adding stealth skills and giving access to daggers/bows could make the mage much more versatile in controlling the battlefield.
And as long as these mixed specializations put more emphasis on the base class than the elements added from the other class then each of the 3 classes could do this. The Templar spec is already basically a mix of warrior and mage and they could give warriors dual-wielding again with a warrior-rogue spec. Then rogues could use light shields with a rogue-warrior spec and set up glyphs and wards as traps with a rogue-mage spec.
If all of this comes across as rushed or nonsensical it's because I'm ridiculously tired and hopped up on caffeine.
#7
Posté 20 août 2012 - 11:07
Sylvanpyxie
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Prrrffftttttt....bows suck in NWN2 / did anyone realise that DA2 and NWN2 is very similar in terms of plot?
Uhm... I like the NwN2 system, really do. It might just be because the first RPG I played used the DnD system but hey, who knows. Personally, though, I don't think it'd suit Dragon Age.
Dragon Age, as much as everyone will likely argue otherwise, is very Console Friendly. It's all about getting up and going. NwN2 had a lot of things, really great things, but "get up and go" definitely wasn't one of them.
As much as i loathe to use the term, Dragon Age has a large "casual" (ugh) audience. An audience that doesn't want to go through a million and 5 complicated stages of class development, reading through every single skill, feat, spell, deity and trait before finally reaching game-play. Then having to do it again for every level up.
The DnD system is great, i still replay games that use it, but in an age that uses "Plug In and Play" as a valuable marketing tool, it just won't work. The system is just too out-dated, even Obsidian Entertainment (Formerly Black Isle) who created some of the biggest DnD Computer Games consider the system to be out-dated.
It's terrible to let such things slip, but i'm afraid it's just a part of "progression".
#8
Posté 21 août 2012 - 12:30
Halo Quea
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Obro wrote...
How can a game released in 2012 have less content?
But this is really the point. Take a look at ME3's multiplayer class diversity, then go back and look at the Single player.
What I think is going to continue to happen is that Bioware's SP campaigns will become shorter, with less content, less customization, and even more insignificant for the purposes of beefing up the MP experience.
I don't believe that you will have the option of playing elves, dwarves or Qunari etc in DA3's single player. You'll probably be able to play as a Qunari in the MP. So no more origins and branching story arcs.
This is one of the reasons why I'll be sitting out on the next DA game. And shouldn't believe anything that Bioware promises either, they've proven that they will say anything during pre-release.
Remember this?
“think like a General, fight like a SPARTAN”
That never happened did it?
#9
Posté 21 août 2012 - 08:07
Obro
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Halo Quea wrote...
Obro wrote...
How can a game released in 2012 have less content?
But this is really the point. Take a look at ME3's multiplayer class diversity, then go back and look at the Single player.
What diversity? You got a class that shoots guns a class that shoots snipers and a class that shoots pistols with some added powers.
The infiltrator class is for example nothing but a DPS. Everyone can hack everyone can have deep conversation options everyone can pick locks.
#10
Posté 21 août 2012 - 08:12
Obro
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MoogleCoat wrote...
As a side note, did anyone reliaze that DA2 and NWN2 is very similar in terms of plot?
Lol no? NWN2 is a ... a sort of a pun on the whole RPG genre and it's classes. You have stereotypes of pretty much every class in it. Dwarf fighter, witsy rogue, trea loving druid, holyer than thou paladin, fiery sorceress, stick in the ass wizard, even holyer cleric, dick-ass ranger, dark and edgie warlock ect.
How is DA2 anything like that?
#11
Posté 21 août 2012 - 09:58
Merlex
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Halo Quea wrote...
Obro wrote...
How can a game released in 2012 have less content?
But this is really the point. Take a look at ME3's multiplayer class diversity, then go back and look at the Single player.
What I think is going to continue to happen is that Bioware's SP campaigns will become shorter, with less content, less customization, and even more insignificant for the purposes of beefing up the MP experience.
I don't believe that you will have the option of playing elves, dwarves or Qunari etc in DA3's single player. You'll probably be able to play as a Qunari in the MP. So no more origins and branching story arcs.
This is one of the reasons why I'll be sitting out on the next DA game. And shouldn't believe anything that Bioware promises either, they've proven that they will say anything during pre-release.
Remember this?
“think like a General, fight like a SPARTAN”
That never happened did it?
I'm going to buy DA3, because i love the DA universe. But if your predictions of less customization, less class and race diversity, and shorter campaigns for single player come true; it will be my last Bioware game.
