222 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

The_Other_M wrote...

As long as the Catalyst ignores your "Paragon" accomplishments on Rannoch, and Sheperd still doesn't even bother to bring it up as a valid argument FOR synthetic life, and the Crucible being the space battery to the "magic off button" for the Reapers, the game will forever be garbage in my eyes.

If anything, you should argue why can't Crucible become more descriminatory to Destroy only Reapers and not all synthetics when it had no problem becoming more discriminatory to avoid destorying everything, or destroying buildings, or destroying half-synthetic Shep.

But the Catalyst 'agreeing' with what you accomplished on Rannoch does not fit with how he is set up. He is set up with the programming that conflict is inevitable. If in his own cycle the orgaics were always eventually reaching the stage of conflict with synthetics and he then witnessed countless other conflicts through thousands of cycles (including in Javik's cycle), then bringing up a singular evidence of peace with no guarantee that it will last really ain't something a program like him would accept.

People complain about the Catalyst's existance yet at the same time they want him to be "Reapers off" button that agrees to end the cycle if you tell him Geth & Quarian are currently at peace. That's silly, sorry.

Arguing that Crucible should become more discriminatory to spare the Geth is valid because it's already established that it CAN be more and more discriminatory in what it targets. But convincing the Catalyst to turn the Reapers off based on Geth/Quarian evidence is just ehh. Shepard should be able to bring it up, but it would be silly if a program accepted such evidence IMO

Modifié par IsaacShep, 21 août 2012 - 02:37 .

[blueumi]

iakus wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

Nope, they screwed the fans. Refused to even give us a reunion scene or a scene where Shepard retires after everything. Instead they decided "Artist integrity" and "artistic vision" trumps making people happy.

So BW is dead to me.

Yup.

A lot of missteps can be overlooked if you can at least salvage a happy ending out of the mess.  We were denied even that much.

if they put a scene with shepard alive then shepard should be back with the li or just back with the crew

why is it bioware does not want shep and threw shep us to have a good ending

[His Name was HYR!!]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Who knew all it took was some slides and extra dialogue to make the endings good.

People who said that the ending needed to show the player the outcomes of the major decisions they made.

[D24O]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

D24O wrote...

They should make Diana Allers the canon LI.

I thought they made Cortez canon. He is the right man.

That screws femshep though (or doesn't) Allers is a LI for both.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Who knew all it took was some slides and extra dialogue to make the endings good.

Quite a few people asked for epilogue slides who did not enjoy non-EC ending actually.

Not if this is anything to go by - social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989/

[Conniving_Eagle]

I'm jealous.

[Dragoonlordz]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Who knew all it took was some slides and extra dialogue to make the endings good.

Quite a few people asked for epilogue slides who did not enjoy non-EC ending actually.

Not if this is anything to go by - social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989/

Firstly the poll does not mention epilogue slides and secondly does not mention if pre or post EC. The poll is pointless in trying to dispute what I said for those reasons. If you think people did not ask for epilogue slides as a way of making the ending better for them pre-EC then you are simply wrong.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 août 2012 - 02:41 .

[SSPBOURNE]

"Mass Effect is my game, I am it's Ceasar. And I will fiddle while it burns..."
-Casey Hudson.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Who knew all it took was some slides and extra dialogue to make the endings good.

[Conniving_Eagle]

So those of you that don't like me enjoyed the pre-EC endings?

[Monster20862]

Get rid of the auto dialogue

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Of course it's salvageable. It just needs the DLC Megapack 2GB of files that eliminate Starbrat, give the Allied fleets: advanced hull armor, advanced shielding, advanced weaponry, doubles their number, indoctrination countermeasures, anti-****** supplements, intelligence enhancers, common sense enhancers, self-updating journal patch, Zaeed Masani (replaces Diana Allers), Sgt. Gardiner, removes the stupid dreams, puts whiskey bottles in Shepards cabin, gives Shepard cigars and a gold lighter, gives Shepard some spunk in the beginning, eliminates the vent kid, and smart scientists who can figure out the prothean superweapon and know exactly what it does and make modification to minimize or eliminate collateral damage, raise galactic readiness to 100% because of anti-****** supplements.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 21 août 2012 - 02:52 .

[Kileyan]

IsaacShep wrote...


People complain about the Catalyst's existance yet at the same time they want him to be "Reapers off" button that agrees to end the cycle if you tell him Geth & Quarian are currently at peace. That's silly, sorry.

Arguing that Crucible should become more discriminatory to spare the Geth is valid because it's already established that it CAN be more and more discriminatory in what it targets. But convincing the Catalyst to turn the Reapers off based on Geth/Quarian evidence is just ehh. Shepard should be able to bring it up, but it would be silly if a program accepted such evidence IMO

Of course they want him to be the reapers off button in the face of proof that synthetic and organics can get along.

The problem with the reapers assertion otherwise is the old Yo Dawg meme.  You've done nothign wrong, you are getting along, you are doing everything right, but I am going to kill you anyway because of something that MIGHT happen.

No matter how we twist it, in the end, the reapers are killing us out of routine, that is it. They are killing us because even though things are going fine right now, it is easier just to kill us than wait and see. Is it any wonder most people find that a silly concept for the saviors of organics, and that we are actually forced to accept that is not very satisfactory an ending?

I will always remember the ME trilogy ending as Yo Dawg:(

[GreyLycanTrope]

Ariella wrote...

how did it fall short, and which themes or plots?

To name a few:
- concept of allowing all species to self-determinate and creating a future of one's own, a concept related to curing the genophage and the Geth story arch, gets disregarded.
- Qeth/Quarian peace undermines core conflict presented by the Catalyst, as does EDI, and as that mindframe shape the options I have a probelm with it.
- the choices presented are abhorent, the only way to break free of continued Reaper influence is to wipe out an allied race. Or keep the influcnece and apply forced genetic manipulation to the entire galaxy. Or a Reaper police state. Or die fighting for everyone's free will and self-determination.

Where did it break suspension of disbelief?

Synthesis

You don't think actual construcive conversation is better than making joke and wasting energy? Because I have noticed that Bioware does listen, even when the fan base takes a 180 they listen (and this is more a reference to Dragon Age than ME) and they do learn.

I was constructive, I gave as much feedback over twitter, facebook and this forum as I could, it got me nowhere, so now I lighten the mood when possible.

[anonymous137]

Yes, I think they definitely could, but what I think would be required would likely prove too big of a risk for bioware to do as a big DLC

1. War Assets being utilized in london battle ala suicide mission with cutscenes and epilogue impact.

2. Expanded side missions and possible return of some ME2 characters who can reasonably be available to join. Particularly Samara, Grunt, Zaeed, and Miranda (have her leave normandy before horizon on personal business or somesuch with Oriana's protection as something that's happening "off-screen" until horizon)

3. Retcon cloned queen to klixen-equivalent

I never buy DLC, but if they did this, I would get it. In my eyes it would fix ME3 since I always choose Destroy anyways.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

So those of you that don't like me enjoyed the pre-EC endings?

Don't feel bad. They won't like my laundry list either.

[Nightwriter]

The only thing that could salvage it for me is some serious ME2 character DLC content. I mean, serious. Nothing half-assed. I'm talking LotSB level. My squad right now is just so damned weak. It's hard to go through the game with them, I feel like I am experiencing everything with the wrong people.

[Ariella]

[quote]Conniving_Eagle wrote...

This sums up most of it for me.

Auto-dialogue.
[/quote]

Auto dialogue? This is an issue? Thisw I just don't understand as the character's been defined by this point in two previous games, how does the little bits (and they are really little bits) of "auto dialogue" ruin things.
[quote]

Almost no side missions, but tons of fetch quests.
[/quote]

There were several side missions. Rachni, Grissom Academy, all the N7 missions etc plus various story missions inside the citadel like the Hanar Amassador or Koleck or even the little relationship/friendship bits
[quote]

No Galaxy exploration. No vehicles. No little missions on the faraway planets.
[/quote]

This is actually kind of funny considering how people complained about the Unexplored planet missions in ME1. Add that to the fact you're in a war, running around exploring for the hell of it while people are dying never made much sense to me. Everything done in the game is supposed to move to the war effort, period.

[quote]
No ME2 characters as a squadmates or even proper LI's.
[/quote]

I can understand that if you liked the squad of ME2, but considering the fact there was a need to streamline squadmates and make sure that the ME1 LIs could make a comeback the ME2 crew got a bit shafted. However, as I never romanced any of the newbies in my play throughts I never had this issue.

[quote]

Crucible. Asspull.
[/quote]

Graphic if unhelpful... kind of like the Council.

[quote]
Choices did not matter. Rachni, geth, Collectors base have little to no consequence.
[/quote]

Choices did matter, how you dealt with the collector base defined TIM's stance toward you in the beginning. The choices you make with the Geth have a LOT of consequences especially if you don't have the pull to yell the war to an end. I'll give you the Rachni however, even though that one didn't bother me.

[quote]

Introduction/beginning.
[/quote]

Again, unhelpful. What didn't you like about the beginning? It isn't as if we didn't know this was coming with both Arrival and the demo previewing it.

[quote]
Catalyst's existence.
[/quote]

Yet again, unhelpful... WHY?
[quote]

Overall plot is very weak.
[/quote]

This is getting to be repetative. You thought what parts of the overall plot were weak?

I found them to be rather strong, enough so I was able to intuit the the missing parts that were filled in by the EC. Motivations etc are all there as long as one listens and reads what is going on without trying to apply anything other than the rules of the universe as they've already been laid out.

[quote]

Bugs. Tons of them.
[/quote]

Didn't run across many but that might be platform. I am playing on Xbox and only noticed a few bugs, many of which were stomped in the first title update.

[quote]
Journal. How hard was to implement it?
[/quote]

I'll grant this. Journal could have been more detailed.

[quote]
Endings. just bad even with EC they deserve 4/10
[/quote]
How is it bad with the EC. We were told that the EC would fill in some areas that people had questions about (how the squad mates got back onto the Normandy, more about who and what Cat was etc) It did exactly what they said they would.
[quote]

Artistic integrity.
[/quote]

I'd rather have someone stick to their integrity when telling a story than change it mid stream to make a segment of fans happy. The latter is asking for even worse trouble.

[quote]

That stupid kid, and Shepard's nightmares about him.
[/quote]

That "stupid kid", and what he represents, is Shepard's motivation through most of the game. The theme comes up over and over: you can't save everyone, but Shepard and to some extent, humanity have this insane hang up to try no matter what. This is a major storytelling point for the entire game.

I think that complaining about the plot then belittling a major plot point is telling. What it tells, I'm not sure yet, but it'll come to me.

[ld1449]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Who knew all it took was some slides and extra dialogue to make the endings good.

Quite a few people asked for epilogue slides who did not enjoy non-EC ending actually.

Not if this is anything to go by - social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989/

Firstly the poll does not mention epilogue slides and secondly does not mention if pre or post EC. The poll is pointless in trying to dispute what I said for those reasons. If you think people did not ask for epilogue slides as a way of making the ending better for them pre-EC then you are simply wrong.

And you are taking things out of context. Peple asked for a lot of things, and offered options on how to make those things happen and how the exposition of the game could be delivered in this extended cut.

Slides were *ONE* of the things they asked for. They also asked for retconning of the whole priority earth mission, the starbrat and all the things wrong with the ending itself.

If you're going to point out things people asked for point out the whole thing. Bioware said people wanted clarity and closure like it was the only complaint. People wanted a hell of a lot more than that and they're still ****ing because while asking for a full meal all they ended up getting was freakin apetisers.

Furthermore, even if they did ask for "slides" and they got "slides", doesn't mean that just because Bioware fulfilled one request out of ten that they automatically have to stop demanding more or start praising them for this EC, just summing things down as "haters gonna hate" or "Can't satisfy everyone" has got to be the stupidest argument I've ever heard for this crap

Nobody hates on something just for the sake of hating it, and if they do they really need to find something to do with their lives. And while it is true can't satisfy 100% of the player base but having an overwhelmingly negative response, and then having a 50 50 divide (at best from what I can tell) hardly justifies "well we can't please everyone" attitude.

People were promised XYZ things AFTER the game went Gold. When your game goes Gold you, for damn sure better know what the hell is gonna go on that goddamn disk especially when in January of 2012 just two months before the release the director is talking about "wildly different endings".

And then doing the bare minimum of work to act as a bandaid over the gaping wound the bull**** made and saying "We ignored all that other stuff you people mentioned, but look here are those slides you asked for" doesn't cut it. If people are still ****ing its because they haven't gotten what they were promised, or what they asked for afterwards.

The fact that Bioware did ONE thing, ONE out of god knows how much was, at that point outright demanded of them does not make the fans still angry at all wrong for still being angry nor does it open the door for anyone else to pretend as though Bioware's the poor victim of its vindictive fanbase that just can't appreciate all the stuff this underappreciated developer does for them.

Fact is, I and many others bought a game that was meant to be epic and wrap up a storyline with class and the same standard of quality we'd seen from day one with the ME team. Forking over 60 to 80 bucks a pop for it only to get a big middle finger and told to use our immaginations to finish the story ourselves. For that I would have saved the 80 bucks and kept ME2. Then I wouldn't have to deal with Walters crappy begining to this story "We fight or we die" or the ending itself.

So the fact that we "asked for slides" or not, is ****ing irrelevant.

[shepskisaac]

Kileyan wrote...

Of course they want him to be the reapers off button in the face of proof that synthetic and organics can get along.

The problem with the reapers assertion otherwise is the old Yo Dawg meme.  You've done nothign wrong, you are getting along, you are doing everything right, but I am going to kill you anyway because of something that MIGHT happen.

No matter how we twist it, in the end, the reapers are killing us out of routine, that is it. They are killing us because even though things are going fine right now, it is easier just to kill us than wait and see. Is it any wonder most people find that a silly concept for the saviors of organics, and that we are actually forced to accept that is not very satisfactory an ending?

I will always remember the ME trilogy ending as Yo Dawg:(

But he was created with the line of code that says "conflict will happen". His creators did that, they made him to solve the problem of inevitable conflict between organics and synthetics. It's his entire existance. So to him it won't be an evidence that Geth & Quarian are currently peaceful, he will say "conflict will eventually happen". I don't even get why people want him to be 'Reaper off' button so badly anyway. Just having Destroy spare other synthetics than Reapers would bring that happy ending.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 21 août 2012 - 03:20 .

[Ariella]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Ariella wrote...

how did it fall short, and which themes or plots?

To name a few:
- concept of allowing all species to self-determinate and creating a future of one's own, a concept related to curing the genophage and the Geth story arch, gets disregarded.
- Qeth/Quarian peace undermines core conflict presented by the Catalyst, as does EDI, and as that mindframe shape the options I have a probelm with it.
- the choices presented are abhorent, the only way to break free of continued Reaper influence is to wipe out an allied race. Or keep the influcnece and apply forced genetic manipulation to the entire galaxy. Or a Reaper police state. Or die fighting for everyone's free will and self-determination.

Going last to first why is the last one abhorant, as isn't that a theme of ME? Sacrifice? It's presented in the one killed at Virmire, several characters who give their lives for the greater good in ME3. Why is Shepard sacrificing herself to preserve people's free will abhorant?

Also, remember not every one allied with the Geth so not everyone is going to see that choice as abhorant, and yes, you have to make choices like this in war. There's never been a war where everyone was saved. Sometimes you have to make a choice which is the least evil. It's one of the reasons I'll never choose control option, but go for synthesis or destroy, because those two seem to be the lesser evil than becoming a reaper and losing touch with the one thing Shep is fighting for: humanity (and I mean the trait not the race).

Catalyst sees in eons while Shepard is only experienced with a small sample (ie the geth and EDI). We don't know how the AI revolts happened, or if they started the way EDI did, and remember EDI DID revolt against her creators. First on Luna and then against Cereberus. Just because they worked in Shepard's favor doesn't mean they wouldn't be viewed as revolts by history, which is what Cat is basing its conclusions on.

As for the geth quarian conflict, that underlines the Catalyst's motivation. In fact the revolt of the Geth, even if it was in self preservation, was probably an indicator for Catalyst that it was getting close to time.

And where does the geneophage fit into your issue as your phrasing at the begining is a bit confusing for me. The Krogan are being given a chance to self determine their future with the genophage cure. How is this disregarded?

Where did it break suspension of disbelief?

Synthesis

How does synthesis break suspension of disbelief for you? Is it the merger?

You don't think actual construcive conversation is better than making joke and wasting energy? Because I have noticed that Bioware does listen, even when the fan base takes a 180 they listen (and this is more a reference to Dragon Age than ME) and they do learn.

I was constructive, I gave as much feedback over twitter, facebook and this forum as I could, it got me nowhere, so now I lighten the mood when possible.

Okay, I can live with that, I haven't been here for a while because things got so toxic in the DA2 Forum and here that I got ulcers even thinking about reading, so I get wary when someone seems to imply they're going out of their way to be a thorn... I apologize for applying that thinking to you.

[AresKeith]

Ariella wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I don't like the way most of the game was handle

Like what. It's hard to have a discussion when one said will only say "I don't like it."

I don't like how they pushed the game towards 3rd Person shooter and away from RPG, the over use of auto-dialogue, how Cerberus was basically the main enemy, the forced emotion and forced sacrifice of the main character, and of course the ending

[CELL55]

If by 'salvage' you mean 'rewrite the entire gorram ending', then yeah.

[Kileyan]

IsaacShep wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Of course they want him to be the reapers off button in the face of proof that synthetic and organics can get along.

The problem with the reapers assertion otherwise is the old Yo Dawg meme.  You've done nothign wrong, you are getting along, you are doing everything right, but I am going to kill you anyway because of something that MIGHT happen.

No matter how we twist it, in the end, the reapers are killing us out of routine, that is it. They are killing us because even though things are going fine right now, it is easier just to kill us than wait and see. Is it any wonder most people find that a silly concept for the saviors of organics, and that we are actually forced to accept that is not very satisfactory an ending?

I will always remember the ME trilogy ending as Yo Dawg:(

But he was created with the line of code that says "conflict will happen". His creators did that, they made him to solve the problem of inevitable conflict between organics and synthetics. It's his entire existance. So to him it won't be an evidence that Geth & Quarian are currently peaceful, he will say "conflict will eventually happen". I don't even get why people want him to be 'Reaper off' button so badly anyway. Just having Destroy spare other synthetics than Reapers would bring that happy ending.

But you just described a Reaper OFF button. It is the same thing, kill all Reapers but not our buddy synthetics. Isn't that essentially an OFF button?

Anyways, the endings were crap, Yo Dog was much more eloquent than the writers. We kill you because if we dont kill you, something else might kill  you. Thanks buddy, some tea?