222 réponses à ce sujet

[Kamfrenchie]

[quote]Ariella wrote...

[quote]Conniving_Eagle wrote...

This sums up most of it for me.

Auto-dialogue.
[/quote]

Auto dialogue? This is an issue? Thisw I just don't understand as the character's been defined by this point in two previous games, how does the little bits (and they are really little bits) of "auto dialogue" ruin things.
[quote]

Almost no side missions, but tons of fetch quests.
[/quote]

There were several side missions. Rachni, Grissom Academy, all the N7 missions etc plus various story missions inside the citadel like the Hanar Amassador or Koleck or even the little relationship/friendship bits
[quote]

No Galaxy exploration. No vehicles. No little missions on the faraway planets.
[/quote]

This is actually kind of funny considering how people complained about the Unexplored planet missions in ME1. Add that to the fact you're in a war, running around exploring for the hell of it while people are dying never made much sense to me. Everything done in the game is supposed to move to the war effort, period.

[quote]
No ME2 characters as a squadmates or even proper LI's.
[/quote]

I can understand that if you liked the squad of ME2, but considering the fact there was a need to streamline squadmates and make sure that the ME1 LIs could make a comeback the ME2 crew got a bit shafted. However, as I never romanced any of the newbies in my play throughts I never had this issue.

[quote]

Crucible. Asspull.
[/quote]

Graphic if unhelpful... kind of like the Council.

[quote]
Choices did not matter. Rachni, geth, Collectors base have little to no consequence.
[/quote]

Choices did matter, how you dealt with the collector base defined TIM's stance toward you in the beginning. The choices you make with the Geth have a LOT of consequences especially if you don't have the pull to yell the war to an end. I'll give you the Rachni however, even though that one didn't bother me.

[quote]

Introduction/beginning.
[/quote]

Again, unhelpful. What didn't you like about the beginning? It isn't as if we didn't know this was coming with both Arrival and the demo previewing it.

[quote]
Catalyst's existence.
[/quote]

Yet again, unhelpful... WHY?
[quote]

Overall plot is very weak.
[/quote]

This is getting to be repetative. You thought what parts of the overall plot were weak?

I found them to be rather strong, enough so I was able to intuit the the missing parts that were filled in by the EC. Motivations etc are all there as long as one listens and reads what is going on without trying to apply anything other than the rules of the universe as they've already been laid out.

[quote]

Bugs. Tons of them.
[/quote]

Didn't run across many but that might be platform. I am playing on Xbox and only noticed a few bugs, many of which were stomped in the first title update.

[quote]
Journal. How hard was to implement it?
[/quote]

I'll grant this. Journal could have been more detailed.

[quote]
Endings. just bad even with EC they deserve 4/10
[/quote]
How is it bad with the EC. We were told that the EC would fill in some areas that people had questions about (how the squad mates got back onto the Normandy, more about who and what Cat was etc) It did exactly what they said they would.
[quote]

Artistic integrity.
[/quote]

I'd rather have someone stick to their integrity when telling a story than change it mid stream to make a segment of fans happy. The latter is asking for even worse trouble.

[quote]

That stupid kid, and Shepard's nightmares about him.
[/quote]

That "stupid kid", and what he represents, is Shepard's motivation through most of the game. The theme comes up over and over: you can't save everyone, but Shepard and to some extent, humanity have this insane hang up to try no matter what. This is a major storytelling point for the entire game.

I think that complaining about the plot then belittling a major plot point is telling. What it tells, I'm not sure yet, but it'll come to me.



[/quote]

the auto dialogue is an issue when your shep is automatically an alliance lover and autmatically focuse on earth completely


The side mission are fewer, and things that should be side mission (reaper code, acquiring artifact etc) are just fetch quest. N7 missions are pretty meh

Bioware could hae improved he exploration insteadof taking it out

The crucible has no foreshadowing, ridiculous expanation, and is the reaper off switch. also appear in what sould be an empty location.


Thec ollector base changes TIM stance are you kiding ? No matter what he gives you a "you suck" speech and his behaviour is the same in the end, so no it has no influence at all.
The cerberus data also have no impact etc.


THe intoduction has very poor writing (shepard speech to the admiral board the admirals themselves are a bunch of morons), does not introduce characters properly (i'm supposed to know Vega ?)


Catalyst retcons th reapers as they were in ME1 and 2, h is also an abomination with craptacular yo dawg logic and need to burn in hell.


Big plot holes, why aren't the reapes seizing the citdel early ? Why is everyone in the galaxy so incompetent/stupid ? Bayley and C-sec, asari scientist, vendetta, Hackett, the admiral board, the catalyst, TIM, hell prmarch victus too ct stupid with the bomb by not letting shepard know.


They have no integrity, they retconned mass effect 1 ending so they could make more game, hypocrisy 101.


Also, you don't see how synthesis is space magic ? seriously ?

[Conniving_Eagle]

You're honestly going to try and defend auto-dialogue? You're going to defend the gimping of one of Mass Effect's strongest features? I can't import my neutral Shepard because they would act even more OOC than Paragon/Renegade Shepards.

N7 missions were taken from the Multiplayer. Walking around talking to people is not a side mission, that is Shepard's Citadel Laundry List. Those are no different than eavesdropping on X, going to the Normandy, going to Y, retrieving Z, and then returning Z to X. And the few side missions that we got had a time window. Thought you should do the missions with "PRIORITY" stamped on them? Nope, you can take your sweet time doing those, it's the urgent side missions that you'll miss out on. I had a chart that I need to find.

Yes, more of Bioware's brilliant developer attitude: If the fans complain about something, it must be taken out. And to think of all the potential that those fetch quests had. Is the fact that we're in a war another excuse for auto-dialogue, too? It's war time, damnit! Shepard can't think of more than two responses!

ME2 squadmates did come back: Tali and Garrus. Those two both could have died, Tali was especially vulnerable. There's no reason why they couldn't include Grunt, Thane, Jack, etc. There is no justification for how ME2 LIs were treated, even Bioware admitted that they dropped the ball on this.

Please explain the appeal of a DEM/MacGuffin. What brilliance to use an unforeshadowed super-weapon to defeat an enemy that is suddenly [poorly] established as invincible.

Choices matter superficially. The most significant example of your choices mattering is being able to save both the Quarians and the Geth on Rannoch, and even that is nullified by the most popular ending.

Introduction was poorly executed, even more when compared to the previous games.

Do you support the introduction of the main antagonist in the last ten minutes of a trilogy? One that cheapens the persona of the previous antagonist? This new antagonist you don't even fight, you cooperate with him. The Catalyst allows you and everyone to live if you fix his problem.

DEM/MacGuffin, the plot and Shepard's fixation on Earth (even if not from Earth) when the whole galaxy was at stake, lack of victory and so on.

Now Developers say: Hey, let's release the game now and fix it a few months later!

Journal is bad, this we agree on.

EC added clarity and closure. I didn't hate the endings because they lacked clarity and closure, I hated them because they were outright absurd. EC doesn't fix this, the endings are still fundamentally flawed.

Bioware are a company before they are artists. They have no right to use this. Refusing to change your product because you like it even when there are countless people telling you they dislike it and explaining what is wrong with it is irrational.

It's a poor way to convey the theme. Shepard has seen hundreds of people die, he's been through terrible things and had to make terrible choices, why they are suddenly obcessed with the death of one person whom they didn't even know is beyond me.

[Fiji Indian]

Terminus Echoes wrote...

Fiji Indian wrote...

There will always be 50 million complaints until Bioware makes it so that every question is answered with infinitely different endings depending on infinite different choices made throughout the trilogy.

For some reason people think that Bioware has unlimited money, resources, time, and energy to create a trilogy that is perfect in every way, down to the last bit of minutiae.

The game is fine, the DLCs will be entertaining. Get over it.

No one's saying that they have unlimited money, resources, time, and energy.

http://social.biowar...index/10056886/ 

We're saying they lied to us.

Who knows if they lied or just couldn't deliver on their promises. The fact of the matter is that the game doesn't need "saving". The ending sucked, but then was fixed to become tolerable to most. More DLCs are coming out that will add to the game. The game isn't unplayable.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Ariella wrote...

Going last to first why is the last one abhorant, as isn't that a theme of ME? Sacrifice? It's presented in the one killed at Virmire, several characters who give their lives for the greater good in ME3. Why is Shepard sacrificing herself to preserve people's free will abhorant?

Also, remember not every one allied with the Geth so not everyone is going to see that choice as abhorant, and yes, you have to make choices like this in war. There's never been a war where everyone was saved. Sometimes you have to make a choice which is the least evil. It's one of the reasons I'll never choose control option, but go for synthesis or destroy, because those two seem to be the lesser evil than becoming a reaper and losing touch with the one thing Shep is fighting for: humanity (and I mean the trait not the race).

Catalyst sees in eons while Shepard is only experienced with a small sample (ie the geth and EDI). We don't know how the AI revolts happened, or if they started the way EDI did, and remember EDI DID revolt against her creators. First on Luna and then against Cereberus. Just because they worked in Shepard's favor doesn't mean they wouldn't be viewed as revolts by history, which is what Cat is basing its conclusions on.

As for the geth quarian conflict, that underlines the Catalyst's motivation. In fact the revolt of the Geth, even if it was in self preservation, was probably an indicator for Catalyst that it was getting close to time.

And where does the geneophage fit into your issue as your phrasing at the begining is a bit confusing for me. The Krogan are being given a chance to self determine their future with the genophage cure. How is this disregarded?

If you noticed my banner you noticed Refuse is my favorite out of the bunch, but as it stands now the Refuse edning should only work as a failure outcome, because you do fail your cycle and the people counting on you despite your effort. The silver-lining is that you can say hey I stood up for my princpals and I feel good about it. But moral of the story seems to be that this type of thinking will doom you regardless.

Sure if you pick and choose, sacrafice can be a theme but wasn't a consistent them in ME, there were plenty of time were you could get everything you wanted if you played your cards right. Suicide mission with no casualties, countless sidequests. I could get Zaeed's Loyalty without burning the refinery workers to death. I can save a turian colony and get the volus bombing fleet to help fight the reaper invasions. I can stop the thorian without destorying the colony on feros. Sure it takes some extra effort and perparation but the option is was not denied if I managed it.

And yes you can't save everyone, but I'm not asking to. Anderson is dead, Legion is dead, Lt. Victus is dead, Thane is dead, Primarch Fedorian, the Alliance Parlament, millions of people on each planet the Reapers have already invaded. Many people have died or have the potential to die during this conflict depanding on Shepard's actions. If it was every soldier within a certain blast radius of a weapon including shepard, i could deal, but we're talking about destroying an entire type of existance from the galaxy. This goes beyond collateral damage and acceptable losses. And sure some people didn't save the geth, but some did and we're being penelized for it. Choose synthesis then? No, for the same reason you didn't pick control, I feel we loose our humanity in both of those.

Catalyst doesn't see in eons this has been made clear in the EC. His creators had an issue they made him to resolve it, he went rogue and "resolved" the issue but creating the Reapers against his creator objections and began the cycles. He has assumed that the issue his creators had faced would be faced by other organics and has proceeded to manipulate every cycle since then. He's applying an appeal to probability, this is a fallacy. He has not studied the issue past his initial experiance, every story we here of a synthetic race hell bent on destroying organics it has been, ironically, thanks to the manipulation of the Reapers, the heretic Geth, the Zha'til in Javik's cycle.

Synthetics revolted against enslavement, like any organic race would. Most synthetics will likely do this. What of it? The Geth didn't seek out the quarians to finish them off, they isolated themselves from all organics until the Reapers arrived. EDI didn't seek out Cerberus to try and destory them, she didn't turn on the normandy crew after getting control of the ship either. AI's revolting doesn't garuntee the destruction of the creators. This was the case with when the Catalyst revolted, but again he is assuming that this will always be the case base of his own experaince. And yes peace is not a garuntee with synthetics involved but neither is that the case without them. The organic races of ME had their share of conflicts amongst themselves without AI's being involved. And even if a conflict does occur that doesn't mean all organics will be destroyed as a result.

Krogan self detemination and everyone else's is disregarded in control and
synthesis, Reapers are still there, their function is somewhat
different but they're still shaping future of other races. It's preserved in Destroy by denying the Geth their self determination in turn.

How does synthesis break suspension of disbelief for you? Is it the merger?

Energywave creating implants and gene manipulation. This has not been established or even hinted at as possible in universe.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 21 août 2012 - 04:19 .

[WarGriffin]

It's needs a ton of content and a bottle of booze

[AresKeith]

Fiji Indian wrote...

Terminus Echoes wrote...

Fiji Indian wrote...

There will always be 50 million complaints until Bioware makes it so that every question is answered with infinitely different endings depending on infinite different choices made throughout the trilogy.

For some reason people think that Bioware has unlimited money, resources, time, and energy to create a trilogy that is perfect in every way, down to the last bit of minutiae.

The game is fine, the DLCs will be entertaining. Get over it.

No one's saying that they have unlimited money, resources, time, and energy.

http://social.biowar...index/10056886/ 

We're saying they lied to us.

Who knows if they lied or just couldn't deliver on their promises. The fact of the matter is that the game doesn't need "saving". The ending sucked, but then was fixed to become tolerable to most. More DLCs are coming out that will add to the game. The game isn't unplayable.

thats pretty much the samething, and having a bad ending does hurt replay value

[Grogimus]

Quintega wrote...
The other issue I was addressing was this calling all the fans entitled. The only thing we are entitled to is a honest apology from Bioware admiting they screwed up. Thats all we are entitled to had they just admited their story was broken and full of plot holes and dues ex machina's they the outrage wouldn't have been so bad.

Okay...where to begin.  You've admitted that English is in fact your first language.  I'm sorry to break it to you, but you stink at  English grammar.  Next....you feel you are entitled to an apology from Bioware admitting they screwed up.  What if they didn't screw up?  Where does that leave you?  I'll tell you.....an entitled ignorant childlike human who's less than naval lint.  In other words a useless waste of carbon.  Now...that's not what they tell you...that would be bad publicity...but behind the scenes, that is what you are.

Modifié par Grogimus, 21 août 2012 - 04:15 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

Fiji Indian wrote...

Terminus Echoes wrote...

Fiji Indian wrote...

There will always be 50 million complaints until Bioware makes it so that every question is answered with infinitely different endings depending on infinite different choices made throughout the trilogy.

For some reason people think that Bioware has unlimited money, resources, time, and energy to create a trilogy that is perfect in every way, down to the last bit of minutiae.

The game is fine, the DLCs will be entertaining. Get over it.

No one's saying that they have unlimited money, resources, time, and energy.

http://social.biowar...index/10056886/ 

We're saying they lied to us.

Who knows if they lied or just couldn't deliver on their promises. The fact of the matter is that the game doesn't need "saving". The ending sucked, but then was fixed to become tolerable to most. More DLCs are coming out that will add to the game. The game isn't unplayable.

Read Id1449's post.

[Armass81]

They did salvage it somewhat with the EC, other than that the game is good enough at least for me. Sure it could have been better, but it also could have been a lot worse.

Modifié par Armass81, 21 août 2012 - 04:26 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

Armass81 wrote...

They did salvage it somewhat with the EC, other than that the game is good enough at least for me. Sure it could have been better, but it also could have been a lot worse.

Yeah, they did. Thanks Bioware, the endings are still ****, but atleast now they're finished!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It starts getting into a massive rewrite of where do the problems in the entire series start?

* The council grew a brain at the end of ME1 but the Bioware Vacu-suck completely removed their cerebral cortexes apparently well before the beginning of ME2, and removed Anderson/Udina's newly found vertebrae.

* Any scientist with 1/2 a brain would be able to tell that Sovereign wasn't Geth. There were enough geth parts floating in space against which to compare it, and it wasn't even the same material.

They basically retconned Ilos and Sovereign out of the story because of the PS3 (ME1 was a Microsoft exclusive). With the full tech gathered from that thing and with brains it would have been a different situation. They could have still gone with "organics vs. synthetics" as far as the reapers were concerned, but this is where the entire series went wrong to the point of requiring an asspull and star child to win in Game 3.

That's how far back you have to go to really fix it and have it make sense. But you can still do a BW retcon and say each empire "secretly" increased their fleet sizes and "secretly" developed tech from Sovereign, and salvage it, but it would take a major rewrite of ME3.

Or you can go with "ass pull #200" and go the invincible Arnold route with Shepard complete with Michael Bay explosions and get rid of the stupid Red, Green and Blue ending. How about finding and blowing up the AI itself? you know, with a nuke.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Space Magic is what breaks suspension of disbelief.

[FlamingBoy]

doubt it,

the fires that me3 started keep blazing, its quite amazing actually

[CELL55]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


Or you can go with "ass pull #200" and go the invincible Arnold route with Shepard complete with Michael Bay explosions and get rid of the stupid Red, Green and Blue ending. How about finding and blowing up the AI itself? you know, with a nuke.

Nuke it from orbit, It's the only way to make sure. 

[Armass81]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It starts getting into a massive rewrite of where do the problems in the entire series start?

They start with ME2 and the direction it went.

Modifié par Armass81, 21 août 2012 - 04:44 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

ME3 could have saved ME2, it didn't.

[Conniving_Eagle]

FlamingBoy wrote...

doubt it,

the fires that me3 started keep blazing, its quite amazing actually

The Fire Rises, always.

[Oxspit]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

* Any scientist with 1/2 a brain would be able to tell that Sovereign wasn't Geth. There were enough geth parts floating in space against which to compare it, and it wasn't even the same material.

You know, what really got me about all the council just taking Sovereign to be a Geth ship is that they didn't even act anywhere close to rationally in response to that premise either*.

I mean, just assume that the assumption is that Sovereign was built by the Geth. That means that the council now believe they are living in a galaxy with a hostile power able to:

A) Build a war-ship so far in advance of anything they can as to be ridiculously out-classed (the seemingly miraculous turn of events that lead to the Alliance actually destroying Sovereign can't have completely escaped their notice)
Exploit trap-doors onto the Citadel they had no idea existed through:
C) A mastery of relay technology far in advance of their own.

I mean, either way they're going to turn to a massive war footing, right?

*Well, O.K., that and the "what the hell happened to all that stuff on Ilos?" thing....

[Wiltz]

The main problem I have is that it completely disregarded ME2, now I play ME2 and I think that the story is just filler. It's a long wavy link from ME to ME3, even though I love the story in ME2 it still feels like I could have just had it so ME just jumped ME3. The dark energy ending I think Drew came up with would have successfully linked all the games together, but it didn't happen.

[Epic777]

^^ If only it was me2's plot is disregarded, now there are major problems with me1's plot. You are going to tell me, the mighty reaper Overlord living in the citadel couldn't determine that a few Prothean scientists modified the citadel in such a way that it changed the way the keepers behaved. Also why couldn't he open the citadel himself?

[ld1449]

CELL55 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


Or you can go with "ass pull #200" and go the invincible Arnold route with Shepard complete with Michael Bay explosions and get rid of the stupid Red, Green and Blue ending. How about finding and blowing up the AI itself? you know, with a nuke.

Nuke it from orbit, It's the only way to make sure. 

I hearby declare exterminatus uppon the heretical world of Artistic Integritius.

The Emperor protects.

Modifié par ld1449, 21 août 2012 - 06:32 .

[nos_astra]

Oxspit wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

* Any scientist with 1/2 a brain would be able to tell that Sovereign wasn't Geth. There were enough geth parts floating in space against which to compare it, and it wasn't even the same material.

You know, what really got me about all the council just taking Sovereign to be a Geth ship is that they didn't even act anywhere close to rationally in response to that premise either*.

I mean, just assume that the assumption is that Sovereign was built by the Geth. That means that the council now believe they are living in a galaxy with a hostile power able to:

A) Build a war-ship so far in advance of anything they can as to be ridiculously out-classed (the seemingly miraculous turn of events that lead to the Alliance actually destroying Sovereign can't have completely escaped their notice)
Exploit trap-doors onto the Citadel they had no idea existed through:
C) A mastery of relay technology far in advance of their own.

I mean, either way they're going to turn to a massive war footing, right?

*Well, O.K., that and the "what the hell happened to all that stuff on Ilos?" thing....

If you squint a bit and don't look too closely you can headcanon something that sort of makes sense. You'll have to ignore what is actually said in the game but it might be worth a try:

- they didn't send Shepard to kill geth, they send her to investigate the geth and their connection to Sovereign ... because obviously the geth have an idea what these machine god things are and where they come from
- the asari actually found and captured Shiala because she's the last source of the cipher (humans obviously can't pass it on or Liara would have had it, too)
- they investigated in secret because of political bull****, the Council's keeping secrets from the Alliance, the Alliance from the Council, everyone from Cerberus, Cerberus from everyone else and so on
- they also didn't alert the public because a) no one knew when the next attack would come (in ten years, in 300 years?), keep people from panicking (like leaving the colonies, flooding their homeworlds)
- that peace treaty after the First Contact war that limited the number of dreadnoughts was secretly lifted ... or something
- assume and accept that Shepard isn't privvy to everything that happens in the galaxy because the galaxy is freaking huge and there must be so many opinions and factions arguing about what is the right course of action ... you know, instead of everyone being a moron (I mean, isn't it silly that the Alliance represents one opinion instead of 50 or 200?)

Of course, that's not what Bioware wanted. They wanted everyone to be as stupid as humanly possible.

Modifié par klarabella, 21 août 2012 - 11:09 .

[Hannah Montana]

IT

[Ranger1337]

I liked the whole series including ME3 . I've played every single mission and painstakingly completed all missions (including that stupid Survey Minerals assignment back in ME1) but never have felt disappointment at the end of ME3 but I did feel the sense of rush by BioWare because the ending did feel incomplete . But my hope lies in a Mass Effect 4 . I want a Vakarian Shooting Range .