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Say NO to synthesis


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#226
Guest_Nyoka_*

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Arcian wrote...

The lack of dissent is in your headcanon.

Nope, the lack of dissent is in the slides of the EC, which show a total lack of dissent, as in 0% dissent.

And why should Wreav kill the Reapers when they're offering to rebuild Tuchanka for him? All he'll do is boast how the former destroyers of the galaxy are bowing before him, doing his bidding. Not even Wreav is stupid enough to kick a gift horse in the mouth, at least not while the gift horse is still useful to him.

Whoa, talk about headcanon, guy :lol: All I see is a Wreav that wants to hunt Reapers, and then a sudden change in his personality that mysteriously coincides with the magic beam of peace, which is described by the catalyst as the final solution to conflict. So, Wreav is hit by the beam that supposedly ends the conflict with synthetics, and then he no longer wants to kill synthetics. And you're saying it was not because of the beam, but because he suddenly is a reasonable, practical minded person and not the warmongering bastard we all know.

Does not compute. ;)

Modifié par Nyoka, 21 août 2012 - 07:45 .


#227
Versus Omnibus

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RadicalDisconnect wrote...

How about we say no to a canon ending?



#228
teh DRUMPf!!

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Nyoka wrote...

Arcian wrote...

The lack of dissent is in your headcanon.

Nope, the lack of dissent is in the slides of the EC, which show a total lack of dissent, as in 0% dissent.


There is no dissent against Wrex from his political opponents in Destroy or Control if you cure the genophage under him.

That scene at the Hallows in Prority: Tuchanka shows very clearly that many do oppose him.

Am I to assume they're all brainwashed too or something?

#229
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HYR 2.0 wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Arcian wrote...

The lack of dissent is in your headcanon.

Nope, the lack of dissent is in the slides of the EC, which show a total lack of dissent, as in 0% dissent.


There is no dissent against Wrex from his political opponents in Destroy or Control if you cure the genophage under him.

That scene at the Hallows in Prority: Tuchanka shows very clearly that many do oppose him.

Am I to assume they're all brainwashed too or something?

Did Wrex fire a huge weapon that theoretically will resolve all internal conflict among the krogan because it's going to provide the final evolution of life and does EDI mention it in the epilogue? If so, then you may be onto something.

#230
RiouHotaru

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Okay, I read through a few of the pages, and I can actually understand why Bioware would go with a Synthesis-style canon.

The Catalyst states that Synthesis is inevitable. What I feel he means is the CONCEPT of Synthesis. That is, the seemless blend of organic and synthetic into a brand new form of life. And really, I can agree that as a concept, that's likely inevitable. Already in real life we're doing research on nanites and micromachines for a variety of different ideas and functions. Eventually blending the two together isn't as far-fetched as it seems.

Just because you picked Destroy or Control wouldn't preclude the possibility that a Synthesis-style society wouldn't still emerge. It's a natural progression.

#231
teh DRUMPf!!

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Nyoka wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Arcian wrote...

The lack of dissent is in your headcanon.

Nope, the lack of dissent is in the slides of the EC, which show a total lack of dissent, as in 0% dissent.


There is no dissent against Wrex from his political opponents in Destroy or Control if you cure the genophage under him.

That scene at the Hallows in Prority: Tuchanka shows very clearly that many do oppose him.

Am I to assume they're all brainwashed too or something?

Did Wrex fire a huge weapon that theoretically will resolve all internal conflict among the krogan because it's going to provide the final evolution of life and does EDI mention it in the epilogue? If so, then you may be onto something.



rofl, don't change the subject...

The answer to my question is obvious: no, that is a leap to a conclusion being made. No different than here.

The more likely explanation is that Wrex's political opponents are still there, just not being shown, in favor of more positive material. In an ending that was largely fan-service, no less.

If it weren't so reasonable, this same explanation may apply to the green ending just as well!

#232
Govalon

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RiouHotaru wrote...

Okay, I read through a few of the pages, and I can actually understand why Bioware would go with a Synthesis-style canon.

The Catalyst states that Synthesis is inevitable. What I feel he means is the CONCEPT of Synthesis. That is, the seemless blend of organic and synthetic into a brand new form of life. And really, I can agree that as a concept, that's likely inevitable. Already in real life we're doing research on nanites and micromachines for a variety of different ideas and functions. Eventually blending the two together isn't as far-fetched as it seems.

Just because you picked Destroy or Control wouldn't preclude the possibility that a Synthesis-style society wouldn't still emerge. It's a natural progression.

Yes, some form of syntehis is inevitable. Whole galaxy wide? Not inevitable but impossible.

#233
RiouHotaru

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But why not? Because you don't like it? At -some- point it would likely be a galaxy-wide thing. Of course that'd happen so far in the future that "Mass Effect 4" wouldn't likely have a setting that resembles anything we experienced to begin with.

#234
Govalon

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RiouHotaru wrote...

But why not? Because you don't like it? At -some- point it would likely be a galaxy-wide thing. Of course that'd happen so far in the future that "Mass Effect 4" wouldn't likely have a setting that resembles anything we experienced to begin with.

I have already stated that many times in this same topic.
Galaxy wide syntehis is impossible because there are vast amount of organic life that can't choose to make themselves cyborgs. Cow like animals can't become cyborg unless someone makes them. Plants can't become cyborgs unless someone makes them cyborgs for no reason. There will always be life that is not cyborg if you don't choose the synthesis ending. If you don't force syntehesis on everyone and everything with space magic, there will always be organic life.

Modifié par Govalon, 21 août 2012 - 08:05 .


#235
RiouHotaru

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I think the problem is that people assume when Bioware says "Synthesis" they mean "Galaxy-wide conversion, Crucible-style".

We don't know or have any indication that's the case. Perhaps the "synthesis" is limited to strictly sentient, sapient, space-faring individuals. Or perhaps they DO build a Crucible-like device and convert the galaxy. Who knows!

But people are jumping to a conclusion with little to no verifiable information.

#236
Govalon

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RiouHotaru wrote...

I think the problem is that people assume when Bioware says "Synthesis" they mean "Galaxy-wide conversion, Crucible-style".

We don't know or have any indication that's the case. Perhaps the "synthesis" is limited to strictly sentient, sapient, space-faring individuals. Or perhaps they DO build a Crucible-like device and convert the galaxy. Who knows!

But people are jumping to a conclusion with little to no verifiable information.

Crucible does not discriminate. If it destroys all synthetic life, it also destroys all organic life depending on your choise.

Proof? watch the endings again. Even plants become cyborgs in synhtesis ending. That will never happen naturally.

11:36 - cyborg plants.
  11:44 - normal plants

Modifié par Govalon, 21 août 2012 - 08:11 .


#237
The Angry One

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We're not the ones treating it as the same. BioWare is.

#238
Guest_Arcian_*

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Nyoka wrote...

Arcian wrote...

The lack of dissent is in your headcanon.

Nope, the lack of dissent is in the slides of the EC, which show a total lack of dissent, as in 0% dissent.

The EC was made to end the series on a higher and more positive note than the original endings, not throw in an addendum about how the galaxy degenerated into war some years later.

That stuff is saved for sequels.

Nyoka wrote... 

And why should Wreav kill the Reapers when they're offering to rebuild Tuchanka for him? All he'll do is boast how the former destroyers of the galaxy are bowing before him, doing his bidding. Not even Wreav is stupid enough to kick a gift horse in the mouth, at least not while the gift horse is still useful to him.

Whoa, talk about headcanon, guy :lol:

Nope, you say "It is", I say "It could be". Headcanon is where someone has already made their mind up about how a thing is in spite of there being no evidence to support it - you know, like you've done with Synthesis brainwashing the galaxy despite there being no evidence whatsoever that it does. Your "evidence" is based on your headcanon and your opinions.

I have no idea how Wreav will react, that's merely my guess. You could be right about him trying to pick a fight with the Reapers. The EC, however, doesn't show that because, as I wrote above, that wasn't the point of the DLC.

Nyoka wrote... 

All I see is a Wreav that wants to hunt Reapers

Yet the problem is that you DON'T see this, it's something your mind has made up. The EC doesn't show him hunting down the Reapers, because he doesn't. Why is besides the point. Because it isn't shown, you have no basis for your claims.

Nyoka wrote... 

and then a sudden change in his personality that mysteriously coincides with the magic beam of peace, which is described by the catalyst as the final solution to conflict. So, Wreav is hit by the beam that supposedly ends the conflict with synthetics, and then he no longer wants to kill synthetics. And you're saying it was not because of the beam, but because he suddenly is a reasonable, practical minded person and not the warmongering bastard we all know.

Does not compute. ;)

The problem is that you've already headcanoned Wreav to be a moronic leader who doesn't know when to attack and when to lick his wounds. He MIGHT be that way after the EC, yes, but you have no proof - it's all based on your headcanon and your opinions.

The EC doesn't show anyone being brainwashed, and it doesn't show Wreav attacking anyone. Assuming that means Wreav has been brainwashed is a logical fallacy.

#239
RiouHotaru

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Arcian wrote...

-your entire post-


Thank god.  Someone with some common sense.  I swear "headcanon" needs to be added to the buzzword list around here along with "plothole" and "retcon".

#240
The Angry One

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RiouHotaru wrote...

Arcian wrote...

-your entire post-


Thank god.  Someone with some common sense.  I swear "headcanon" needs to be added to the buzzword list around here along with "plothole" and "retcon".


"Only my fellow apologists have common sense!"

Yeah, great argument there, sparky.

Modifié par The Angry One, 21 août 2012 - 08:18 .


#241
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HYR 2.0 wrote...

The more likely explanation is that Wrex's political opponents are still there, just not being shown, in favor of more positive material.

That means organics will still want to kill synthetics and vice versa after synthesis, we just don't see them in the slides. So you synthetized all life for... what?

#242
AngryFrozenWater

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Wrong thread. Deleted.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 21 août 2012 - 08:21 .


#243
ATiBotka

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Modifié par ATiBotka, 21 août 2012 - 08:22 .


#244
RiouHotaru

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The Angry One wrote...

"Only my fellow apologists have common sense!"

Yeah, great argument there, sparky.


Considering your "common sense" consists of the same logical fallacies and conclusions based on no factual information besides cherry-picking and fabricating context, yeah, he does have more than you.

#245
Fixers0

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Synthesis is disgusting and goes agains the very nature of mankind: Conflict.

No happy soldiers = No happy ending.

#246
The Angry One

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RiouHotaru wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

"Only my fellow apologists have common sense!"

Yeah, great argument there, sparky.


Considering your "common sense" consists of the same logical fallacies and conclusions based on no factual information besides cherry-picking and fabricating context, yeah, he does have more than you.


Pot calling the kettle black I see.

Of which you can point none out, yet again.
Stop accusing me of doing things without showing what. Then again I've come to expect nothing else of you.

#247
ATiBotka

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Fixers0 wrote...

Synthesis is disgusting and goes agains the very nature of mankind: Conflict.

No happy soldiers = No happy ending.


There will be conflict, but not synthetic vs organic.

And the soldiers don't celebrate because they were like "WTF?"

#248
Versus Omnibus

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ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Synthesis is disgusting and goes agains the very nature of mankind: Conflict.

No happy soldiers = No happy ending.


There will be conflict, but not synthetic vs organic.

And the soldiers don't celebrate because they were like "WTF?"



#249
The Angry One

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ATiBotka wrote...

There will be conflict, but not synthetic vs organic.


Of course there won't.
There'll be conflict between synthetics and hybrids instead.

That's... so much better.

#250
BatmanPWNS

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Synthesis does this:

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

So, of course, I'll say no,