476 réponses à ce sujet

[teh DRUMPf!!]

The Angry One wrote...

Edit: Oh and yeah. Ieldra's thread. Such a bastion of logic. With synthesis supporters arguing that Javik should be assassinated, and the Reapers should have their name changed to appear more friendly.

Slander.
Oh wait, I forgot. They're not insults if they're your insults. 

[RiouHotaru]

Fixers0 wrote...

There we have, synthesis takes away the options for me as an Organic to instigate or personally start a war against synthethics.

What's with the false dichotomies everywhere suddenly?  Did "All or nothing" suddenly become a defensible argument when I was asleep last night?

And the thing is, you can state all you like that "I'd still want to start a war!" but you can't say for certain you would.  It's easy to be the omnipotent third party and claim that stuff, but unless you're actually there it's impossible to back it up.

[Fixers0]

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Thank you for confirming my point.

COnfirming what?

that the soldiers aren't happy because of synthesis.

They don't happy at the moment. They're just wondering what happend to them.

But that are happy at the moment in Control and Destroy, what's changed?

[The Angry One]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Everything you've "extrapolated" from the game is your personal interpretation and opinion of the ending.  That's it.  The fallacy is that you state it as absolute fact.

I have stated quite plainly that brainwashing or indoctrination is an interpretation.
The people's behaviour among the Reapers is not. This is shown, and this is suspicious.

I'm not against the idea that people would be incredibly nervous or fearful of the Reapers, but you believe that absolutely no reconciliation is possible in any way shape and form.  And that the fact it DOES happen in the EC slides means SOMETHING must be wrong.  You're presenting a situation where there are only two possibilities when it's clear there are more.

Reconciliation takes time. This is a simple fact of how we work.
The Reapers not only killed us, but mutilated us, destroyed our homes, declared us cattle, tortured our minds, put up death camps, turned friends and loved ones into cybernetic zombies and sent them against us. Then suddenly we're all going to be friends!

Can you seriously tell me that Coates, who spent months in London, fighting the Reapers, witnessing their atrocities, will just happily rebuild London with the Reapers in the background? That scene, by nature, is sinister. It's a Stepford smiler scenario.

HYR 2.0 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Edit: Oh
and yeah. Ieldra's thread. Such a bastion of logic. With synthesis
supporters arguing that Javik should be assassinated, and the Reapers
should have their name changed to appear more friendly.

Slander.

Slander? That's what people have said. Don't attack me because certain synthesis supporters think this way.

Oh wait, I forgot. They're not insults if they're your insults. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

I called someone who directly insulted my ability to raise children a troll. Oh no.
I thought you had gotten over trying to take my posts out of context, HYR. I am disappoint.

Modifié par The Angry One, 21 août 2012 - 08:42 .

[Fixers0]

RiouHotaru wrote...

And the thing is, you can state all you like that "I'd still want to start a war!" but you can't say for certain you would.  It's easy to be the omnipotent third party and claim that stuff, but unless you're actually there it's impossible to back it up.

And there's the problem with synthesis, if you would have been listening, it  takes away my option as an Organic to start a war against Synthetics. what's not to understand here?

[RiouHotaru]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Edit: Oh and yeah. Ieldra's thread. Such a bastion of logic. With synthesis supporters arguing that Javik should be assassinated, and the Reapers should have their name changed to appear more friendly.

Slander.
Oh wait, I forgot. They're not insults if they're your insults. 

And even if it WAS true, pointing out a small, isolated number of Synthesis supporters doesn't prove anything.  God knows how many threads we have of hypocrites suddenly wanting to butcher Liara out of nowhere or hating EDI or the most innane reasons.

Every group will have their ridiculous members in it.  Pointing them out doesn't make the overall group's stance -less- credible.

[ATiBotka]

Fixers0 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Thank you for confirming my point.

COnfirming what?

that the soldiers aren't happy because of synthesis.

They don't happy at the moment. They're just wondering what happend to them.

But that are happy at the moment in Control and Destroy, what's changed?

In Synthesis they've got green glowing eyes and circuit lines?

Modifié par ATiBotka, 21 août 2012 - 08:43 .

[estebanus]

To adress your concerns OP, when I met Jessica Merizan at Games Com, she told me that if they make any Mass Effect sequels, Synthesis will have either occured because of Shepard or organic life will have achieved it naturally. So no, I really doubt they'd "canonize" synthesis as what Shepard chose. It will just have occured naturally as technology progressed.

[Fixers0]

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Thank you for confirming my point.

COnfirming what?

that the soldiers aren't happy because of synthesis.

They don't happy at the moment. They're just wondering what happend to them.

But that are happy at the moment in Control and Destroy, what's changed?

In Synthesis they've got green glowing eyes and circuit lines?

I thought that they were wearing helmets and airtight bodysuits?

[RiouHotaru]

The Angry One wrote...

I have stated quite plainly that brainwashing or indoctrination is an interpretation.
The people's behaviour among the Reapers is not. This is shown, and this is suspicious.

Okay, at least we've gotten that out of the way.

The Angry One wrote...

Reconciliation takes time. This is a simple fact of how we work.
The Reapers not only killed us, but mutilated us, destroyed our homes, declared us cattle, tortured our minds, put up death camps, turned friends and loved ones into cybernetic zombies and sent them against us. Then suddenly we're all going to be friends!

Can you seriously tell me that Coates, who spent months in London, fighting the Reapers, witnessing their atrocities, will just happily rebuild London with the Reapers in the background? That scene, by nature, is sinister. It's a Stepford smiler scenario.

We're also not given a clear time frame of exactly WHEN those scenes take place...as I recall during the last convention, we were told in excess of a decade or more for those slides, I believe?  Something like that?

I'm perfectly willing to believe a scenario where initially the violence continues, or both sides separate themselves from each other while they try to figure out why the heck they're all glowing green and why they suddenly have different abilities from before (Synthesis states organics gain the technological edge originally exclusive to synthetics).  At some point, reconcilition takes place, and in the slides is at some point in development enough that the Reapers contribute to the cause by assisting in the reconstruction of galactic society of their own free will.

You seem to believe reconcilition happens instantaneously, or just about close to it.

[The Angry One]

RiouHotaru wrote...

And even if it WAS true, pointing out a small, isolated number of Synthesis supporters doesn't prove anything.  God knows how many threads we have of hypocrites suddenly wanting to butcher Liara out of nowhere or hating EDI or the most innane reasons.

Every group will have their ridiculous members in it.  Pointing them out doesn't make the overall group's stance -less- credible.

Never said it did, since the stance has no credibility to begin with. It was an amusing aside.
Naturally people latch onto that and that alone because it's the easiest to argue against. Very telling.

[ATiBotka]

Fixers0 wrote...

I thought that they were wearing helmets and airtight bodysuits?

But the green beam changes their DNA, they must have felt something, no?

[blueumi]

not only do they take a happy ending from us but now even the choice shepard makes does not matter

the one thing bioware had in their games is gone

[Fixers0]

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

I thought that they were wearing helmets and airtight bodysuits?

But the green beam changes their DNA, they must have felt something, no?

Supposition, in all other scenarios their happy the reapers are gone, but in case of synthesis, they just stand there.

Modifié par Fixers0, 21 août 2012 - 08:49 .

[Kathleen321]

estebanus wrote...

Kathleen321 wrote...

I picked synthesis in one of my playthroughs but i also picked destroy in another. They are both important to me and therefore I hate cannon.

Why do you hate cannons? They're awesome!

I don't hate MY cannon I hate Bioware choosing a cannon for me.

[wright1978]

ShepnTali wrote...

If the word on the street is true, that Bioware intends to build on synthesis 'canon' in the future, say no.

Or don't, that's fair. I however am firmly in the NO column. As much as I don't like Control, I could actually swallow that a little easier, but that's not saying much. 

If they want to set a game in an alternate universe where synthesis was chosen then that's their prerogative. I'll judge it on its merits but would much prefer one set in destroy universe. However if they are intending to railroad all endings as eventually leading the catalyst's synthesis then i would be severely angry and would probably obstinantly avoid the game.

[The Angry One]

RiouHotaru wrote...

We're also not given a clear time frame of exactly WHEN those scenes take place...as I recall during the last convention, we were told in excess of a decade or more for those slides, I believe?  Something like that?

Do you honestly think they're rebuilding London a decade later with the Reapers there?
What are they doing? Watching?

I'm perfectly willing to believe a scenario where initially the violence continues, or both sides separate themselves from each other while they try to figure out why the heck they're all glowing green and why they suddenly have different abilities from before (Synthesis states organics gain the technological edge originally exclusive to synthetics).  At some point, reconcilition takes place, and in the slides is at some point in development enough that the Reapers contribute to the cause by assisting in the reconstruction of galactic society of their own free will.

You seem to believe reconcilition happens instantaneously, or just about close to it.

Then why don't they show it? How about something like "There was much strife. Forgiveness did not come easily, but it did come in time.". That's very basic but you get the idea. They could at least acknowledge that resentment exists while still having the happy ending they want.

[RiouHotaru]

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

I thought that they were wearing helmets and airtight bodysuits?

But the green beam changes their DNA, they must have felt something, no?

Maybe?  Notice that none of them seem to be in any pain or discomfort.  They look more confused and surprised by the sudden neon green accessories.

[ATiBotka]

Fixers0 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

I thought that they were wearing helmets and airtight bodysuits?

But the green beam changes their DNA, they must have felt something, no?

Supposition, in all other scenarios their happy the reapers are gone, but in case of synthesis, they just stand there.

The Krogan are happy.

[AresKeith]

RiouHotaru wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

I thought that they were wearing helmets and airtight bodysuits?

But the green beam changes their DNA, they must have felt something, no?

Maybe?  Notice that none of them seem to be in any pain or discomfort.  They look more confused and surprised by the sudden neon green accessories.

which isn't possible in Sci-fi

[Fixers0]

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

I thought that they were wearing helmets and airtight bodysuits?

But the green beam changes their DNA, they must have felt something, no?

Supposition, in all other scenarios their happy the reapers are gone, but in case of synthesis, they just stand there.

The Krogan are happy.

But they're not humans/Alliance, the Krogan can keep their genophage and stay holled up in that radioactive waste they call tuchanka,

Modifié par Fixers0, 21 août 2012 - 08:53 .

[estebanus]

Kathleen321 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Kathleen321 wrote...

I picked synthesis in one of my playthroughs but i also picked destroy in another. They are both important to me and therefore I hate cannon.

Why do you hate cannons? They're awesome!

I don't hate MY cannon I hate Bioware choosing a cannon for me.

Which one? 18th century? 16th century? 20th century, perhaps?

[ATiBotka]

Fixers0 wrote...

But they're not humans/Alliance, the Krogan can keep their genophage and stay holled up in that radioactive was they call tuchanka,

I think synthesis affects everyone in the same way. If the krogan don't lose their feelings, their free will, then no one.

[RiouHotaru]

The Angry One wrote...

Do you honestly think they're rebuilding London a decade later with the Reapers there?
What are they doing? Watching?

I don't know, I'm guestimating.  If someone remembers the discussion at that last con was a few months ago where they answered the question, that would help.  For all I know it's 50 years later.  I don't have exact information, and therefore won't pin myself down to a specific answer.

I just know it takes place a fairly significant time later.

Then why don't they show it? How about something like "There was much strife. Forgiveness did not come easily, but it did come in time.". That's very basic but you get the idea. They could at least acknowledge that resentment exists while still having the happy ending they want.

For the same reason Destroy glosses over the fact people are stuck with conventional FTL for a while, or that Control glosses over the issue of the fact the Reapers are still around?  Synthesis glosses over it's own negative qualities because they're going for a more hopeful ending.  Also, it's EDI narrating it.  I'm sure if Coates were narrating it, he MIGHT have mentioned that.  But they chose EDI to be the spokesperson.