476 réponses à ce sujet

[AngryFrozenWater]

Arcian wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

It's funny the supporters of brainwashing galaxywide rays are worried about their freedom of thought.

Oh look, more baseless headcanon BS. There is no evidence for synthesis brainwashing anyone. If anything, it frees the Reapers and the husks from the Catalyst's brainwashing.

There is no evidence of the brat brainwashing the reapers. That head canon always comes into play when the reapers are to be portrayed as machines without responsibility for their actions.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 21 août 2012 - 02:57 .

[phimseto]

Synthesis aka rewriting everyone's genetic code against their will aka the Galactic Rape ending.

No thanks.

[saracen16]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

It's funny the supporters of brainwashing galaxywide rays are worried about their freedom of thought.

Oh look, more baseless headcanon BS. There is no evidence for synthesis brainwashing anyone. If anything, it frees the Reapers and the husks from the Catalyst's brainwashing.

There is no evidence of the brat brainwashing the reapers. That head canon always comes into play when the reapers are to be portrayed as machines without responsibility for their actions.

"I embody the collective intelligence of all Reapers."

"I gave them function."

He is the MASTER of the Reapers. His programming is to preserve organic and synthetic life in the long run. Since there is no such thing as pure organics and synthetics after synthesis, his programming is fulfilled.

[Kamfrenchie]

[quote]Wayning_Star wrote...

[/quote]

You called 'it' a 'he', that is an organic description, catering to your opinion of something no one can understand,as is.

We cannot fall back on 'destroy' unless we obtain rationalization for blame. Eventhough, we cannot fathom blaming those who inadvertently created the catalyst then reapers then spontanious development of synthetic life forms, thus creating the cycle/pattern. WE cannot look in the mirror for fear of what we might see there? The catalyst, doing our dirty work?

Besides, lore dictates that we cannot just 'destroy', as it'll come back to haunt us in any event. The only way to rid the MEU of overbearing technology is to divorce it completely, or it will become an integral part of the organic compendium.

Makes a player wonder why the original creators keeps leaving just enough high tech around to cause trouble. The catalyst isn't capable of such skull duggery..[/quote]

lease use the quote abit better
sorry but this is sterile theorycrafting.

I blame the one that is in charge of the genocide, I don't know his creators enough, only that they disapproved the catalyst. t maks more sense to think te catalyst is responsible...

S what, the civ tha created the reapers culdn' program an AI right, when the quarians created the geth as peaceful beings without even trying ? Yeah right.
uit excusing him, and i'll use "he" if i want to, afterall h decided to appear as a brat.

Oh yes we can destoy that monstruosity andno it won't come bck to haunt us.
And no the catlyst doesn't do ou dirty work, no one was ever ok wth what he did.

I look in the mirror and i see it clearly, the catalyst is an abomination that deserve  to go to hell. And he doesn't do my dirty work

Tech doesn't hae to be implemented in anyone against their will. Forcing it "because it's inevitable" is criminal

[/quote]

The game is theory crafting. We've no other data to work with..

I think you're getting to emotionally attached to the situation as it relates decision.

The fact of the matter is we force it upon ourselves via it's very utilization. That's the "inivetble" part.

That being "criminal" is up for another, different debate..lol

We cannot destroy the technological monstrosity, it's already part of our being. We have to adapt to it, as it's our fate as being evolved to the point of it's invention.

The catalyst does our dirty work when it destroys, thats it's function. We/organics created it for that purpose, inadvertently. It was an accident of nature. The nature of organics to create stuff to advance/adapt.

Thats the cycle/pattern.

The question? How do we talk our way out of the conundrum?[/quote]

nonsense

first, you're doing headcanon, asuming it hadd faulty program nd tha he' not responsible, there is no basis for that.

This technical monstrosity ? what are you talking about ? we on't hve to force peple to become cyborg or "superior", that's the mster plan from fallout1.

and no he catalyst doesn't do our dirty work. It doesn't benefits us at all, we never wanted it, he's following his own agenda, nonsense.
We din't crate i, and we aren' the same as his creator, you merge evryone in your argument for odd reasons.

With that line of thinking,  couldsay some famous dicttors did our dirty work as well.

Modifié par Kamfrenchie, 21 août 2012 - 04:51 .

[zambot]

Shepard picking synthesis will not be the canon. Neither will Shepard picking destroy. THERE WILL BE NO CANON CHOICE. Why is this so hard for people to understand??

[PanzerGr3nadier]

Wayning_Star wrote...

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

Blue Face Beast wrote...

PanzerGr3nadier wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

If synthesis is canonized, it would be horrible. I don't like the idea of everyone living alongside husks, marauders, and banshees. Its just sick.

Pretty much this. Lately  BW has made some (imo) "retarded" decisions and making the synthesis as canon ending would be the most retarded one to date..... the last nail in the coffin...

How is that sick? They were your enemies and it was fair to fight them. If they are not your enemies anymore, why would you deny them their right to exist?

Because they used to be other people? Well, they are now what they are and they turned pacific. Do they still need to die?

Yes because, They used to be other people. They are hollow from the inside... they are indoctrinated and Reapers are controlling them. They are dead.

Organics = Synthesis = Reapers + Indoctrinated people

eeeeenk..no point!! We have NO idea what they are from the inside. Even if indoctrinated, they are the same person, only controlled from without, innocent. We cannot simply transfer 'guilt' by association that way. If DNA samples are dead, then why save them like we do now? To be created in another form later?!? (who knew?)

synthesis is NOT inodoctrination in any way.

Fully indoctrinated individuals have no free will, memories or anything which would mean that they are people. All that they used to be is taken by the Reapers, who "own" them. They are just shells that are controlled by the reapers... and since the reapers are still alive in synthesis, the "plugins" are still controlled.

You should read ME:Retribution. It describes the indoctrination process.

no, they are not controlled, there is no need to control that what is not a threat. Synthesis is the adaptation of miniscule amounts of matter between synthetic life forms and bilogical life forms. There is NO radio controlled beings at all there. That's the very point of it, to remove the 'reaper threat' and the organic threat to reaper/catalyst programs pattern of control. It contrived this to control 'chaos', it's simplified version of evolution..

You are running two totally different concepts into one neat self defense arguenment. I think they call it a 'pre concieved' notion, or predisposition. You cannot base your arguement on your instant theory, disregarding lore/MEU based reality points. Simply put, you misread/misapplied what you read in the "Retribution" storylines.

So you are saying that the Reaper's ability to indoctrinate people simply ceases to exist?

All this time I've said that Husks etc. are hooked up into Reapers and once Synthesis has happened they still remain under the influence of the Reaper overlords. How does that make a two different concepts?

Btw, can you point the lorebreakings in my posts since I can't se none.

simply put, you misread/misapplied what you read in the "Retribution" storylines.

I have the book, Paul tried to fight them, his consciousness tried to fight the Reaper influence which slowly take over and he simply gave up... At the end, There was no Paul, There was only a "Vessel" of the Reapers.

There is NO radio controlled beings at all there.

There is no "detaching" from the Reapers.. except death.

Modifié par PanzerGr3nadier, 21 août 2012 - 03:07 .

[zambot]

Nyoka wrote...

Arcian wrote...

There is no evidence for synthesis brainwashing anyone.

Multiple examples. First to come to mind... when Wreav says "victory at all costs" and wants to bring a Reaper back to Tuchanka as a trophy, he wants to not destroy Reapers? Wreav suddenly changed his mind in favor of peaceful diplomacy and cooperation by himself?

In general, the absolute lack of dissent is just a big, galaxy wide coincidence?

Feel free to headcanon dissent or brainwashing with space magic.  That is your right.

[AngryFrozenWater]

saracen16 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

It's funny the supporters of brainwashing galaxywide rays are worried about their freedom of thought.

Oh look, more baseless headcanon BS. There is no evidence for synthesis brainwashing anyone. If anything, it frees the Reapers and the husks from the Catalyst's brainwashing.

There is no evidence of the brat brainwashing the reapers. That head canon always comes into play when the reapers are to be portrayed as machines without responsibility for their actions.

"I embody the collective intelligence of all Reapers."

"I gave them function."

He is the MASTER of the Reapers. His programming is to preserve organic and synthetic life in the long run. Since there is no such thing as pure organics and synthetics after synthesis, his programming is fulfilled.

I am not impressed by the use of your caps lock key. It looks like a typical command structure to me. It's interesting that their intelligence can be linked, though. That still does not mean any brainwashing. Geth do something similar. And yet again more headconon to remove the responsibility for the actions of their leader by assuming it is only controlled by programming.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 21 août 2012 - 03:15 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Arcian wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

If synthesis is canonized, it would be horrible. I don't like the idea of everyone living alongside husks, marauders, and banshees. Its just sick.

What's with you people and your aversion to peaceful coexistence?

What was problem of Catalyst with symbiotic coexistence of Zha´Til ?
Because it could end 50 thousand years sooner, you know genocide and harvesting - ugly stuff...

As I said before you cannot believe to Catalyst which speaking obvious fallacies in direction to paint other two possibilities as good one and destroy as choice which solve nothing.
Why he speaking obvious fallacies ? His main theme was to stop the conflict and forge relatioship betwen two sides, he sweep off from table his purpose and rebelled against own agenda.. and please don´t try it with something  like - It was just first time, it doesn´t count - because it´s not simple stealing of gummy bears in playschool.

[ATiBotka]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

As I said before you cannot believe to Catalyst which speaking obvious fallacies in direction to paint other two possibilities as good one and destroy as choice which solve nothing.

Not true. The Catalyst don't like the idea of control.

"...and I am not looking forward to being replaced by you, but I would be forced to accept it."

Modifié par ATiBotka, 21 août 2012 - 03:50 .

[Taddl]

I actually like synthesis the most(I know that most people have problems with it and I dont want to start another discussion here). I think no end is really satisfying (at least for me). And frankly I cant imagine a mass effect 4, continuing any of the ends, that I would really like to play. But I hope BW surprises me.

[The Angry One]

Synthesis. The green lie promises so much.
Harbinger is alive, and he is not alone.

ATiBotka wrote...

Not true. The Catalyst don't like the idea of control.

"...and I am not looking forward to being replaced by you, but I would be forced to accept it."

And the Catalyst expects you to care about it's personal feelings? That's right, it doesn't.
It's presenting control as bad FOR ITSELF, not for you. It is forced to accept it because it's agenda is more important to it that it's own survival.

Modifié par The Angry One, 21 août 2012 - 04:19 .

[ATiBotka]

 TAO, I was expecting you.:happy:

[Mr.House]

Synthesis makes robots go poo.

Poor robots.

[The Angry One]

ATiBotka wrote...

 TAO, I was expecting you.:happy:

This may shock you, but I find a story that continues from synthesis a potentially interesting concept.
Though not for the same reason as synthesis supporters, obviously, but more a story of resistance against the ultimate victory of the Reapers and dealing with the effect of this galactic violation.
Also it'd give Harbinger a role as the actual antagonist.

[GreyLycanTrope]

The Angry One wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

 TAO, I was expecting you.:happy:

This may shock you, but I find a story that continues from synthesis a potentially interesting concept.
Though not for the same reason as synthesis supporters, obviously, but more a story of resistance against the ultimate victory of the Reapers and dealing with the effect of this galactic violation.
Also it'd give Harbinger a role as the actual antagonist.

I'd prefer if Harbinger was a protagonist trying to rebel and destroy his creator.

[CronoDragoon]

One thing about Synthesis that scares the hell out of me is that the Reapers are alive and apparently autonomous. In order for that not to be a problem, we'd have to assume that a group of individuals who have reason to identify with one another will never 1. be attacked out of fear and have reason to retaliate, a retaliation that due to the overwhelming power of the Reapers could just be another war of the same level of devastation as ME3 2. decide, as so many autonomous human groups do, to expand because it's their destiny/because they can/preemptive strike, etc.

In other words, I find it hard to believe more Reaper wars aren't coming in Synthesis. And such Reaper wars would be different than other wars because of the sheer level of devastation capable from one side.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 21 août 2012 - 04:33 .

[Master Xanthan]

Arcian wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

If synthesis is canonized, it would be horrible. I don't like the idea of everyone living alongside husks, marauders, and banshees. Its just sick.

What's with you people and your aversion to peaceful coexistence?

I'm averse to peaceful coexistence to reaper husks because the person who that husk used to be is now dead. The husk/marauders/banshees should be laid to rest. Its like living alongside zombies. Imagine a character in the mass effect universe finding out that one of the husks they live alongside used to be one of their family members, does that seem disturbing to you at all? This is one of the big reasons why I don't like synthesis. If you find nothing wrong with that, then all I have to say is "wow......."

Edit: Oh and I also love how you ignore my whole comment and come to the conclusion that I hate peaceful coexistence. If you actually, you know, read and payed attention, I only disliked the idea of living alongside reaper husks. Now if it was organics and geth/edi in peaceful coexistence I wouldn't have a problem with that. Though I still would have a problem with the Reapers still being alive since they could easily indoctrinate you. 

Modifié par Master Xanthan, 21 août 2012 - 04:40 .

[Vigilant111]

saracen16 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

It's funny the supporters of brainwashing galaxywide rays are worried about their freedom of thought.

Oh look, more baseless headcanon BS. There is no evidence for synthesis brainwashing anyone. If anything, it frees the Reapers and the husks from the Catalyst's brainwashing.

There is no evidence of the brat brainwashing the reapers. That head canon always comes into play when the reapers are to be portrayed as machines without responsibility for their actions.

"I embody the collective intelligence of all Reapers."

"I gave them function."

He is the MASTER of the Reapers. His programming is to preserve organic and synthetic life in the long run. Since there is no such thing as pure organics and synthetics after synthesis, his programming is fulfilled.

No, it becomes redundant, obselete, and its purpose is to maintain peace, if it is gone, how does it maintain? Synthesis is not ironclay in terms of peace is it?

And how do you account for the rising of new organics, and organics from another galaxy?

[CronoDragoon]

Master Xanthan wrote...

I'm averse to peaceful coexistence to reaper husks because the person who that husk used to be is now dead. The husk/marauders/banshees should be laid to rest. Its like living alongside zombies. Imagine a character in the mass effect universe finding out that one of the husks they live alongside used to be one of their family members, does that seem disturbing to you at all? This is one of the big reasons why I don't like synthesis. If you find nothing wrong with that, then all I have to say is "wow......."

Don't the husks turn back into humans, though? Or something, I know something happens to them in Synthesis.

In any case, zombies aren't sentient so it would be more akin to living alongside vampires who aren't evil.

[The Angry One]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Don't the husks turn back into humans, though? Or something, I know something happens to them in Synthesis.

In any case, zombies aren't sentient so it would be more akin to living alongside vampires who aren't evil.

All we know is that they apparently become docile.
They certainly don't become what they once were and I'd at least hope they don't return to sapience because self aware existence as a Husk, let alone a Cannibal, a Banshee, a Brute or a freaking Praetorian would be a living nightmare.

[Master Xanthan]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

I'm averse to peaceful coexistence to reaper husks because the person who that husk used to be is now dead. The husk/marauders/banshees should be laid to rest. Its like living alongside zombies. Imagine a character in the mass effect universe finding out that one of the husks they live alongside used to be one of their family members, does that seem disturbing to you at all? This is one of the big reasons why I don't like synthesis. If you find nothing wrong with that, then all I have to say is "wow......."

Don't the husks turn back into humans, though? Or something, I know something happens to them in Synthesis.

In any case, zombies aren't sentient so it would be more akin to living alongside vampires who aren't evil.

They don't turn back into humans. And yeah the husks aren't evil anymore but its the principle of it. Its like the Reapers saying "oh right, we reaperfied some of these people that may be former family members, you should try and get to know them again" Its just an insult really. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

Master Xanthan wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Master Xanthan wrote...

If synthesis is canonized, it would be horrible. I don't like the idea of everyone living alongside husks, marauders, and banshees. Its just sick.

What's with you people and your aversion to peaceful coexistence?

I'm averse to peaceful coexistence to reaper husks because the person who that husk used to be is now dead. The husk/marauders/banshees should be laid to rest. Its like living alongside zombies. Imagine a character in the mass effect universe finding out that one of the husks they live alongside used to be one of their family members, does that seem disturbing to you at all? This is one of the big reasons why I don't like synthesis. If you find nothing wrong with that, then all I have to say is "wow......."

Forced genetic rewrite is also an issue. I refuse to just glance over the uncortable details.

[ATiBotka]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Don't the husks turn back into humans, though? Or something, I know something happens to them in Synthesis.

They become green. I don't think they turn back to humans. And think about the Brutes, Cannibals. What's going to happen to them?