280 réponses à ce sujet

[kellyofthemagi]

From the interveiws I've seen they have no desire to go backwards but improve on what they have. To give us more choices to make the game more personal. I have no doubt they can pull it off. Gaiders heart is in this game along with the other devopers.

[Blastback]

Maria Caliban wrote...

For myself, I've never felt as though any character in a game was wholly mine.

To some extent I'll agree. Few characters in Bioware style games have ever been 100% mine.  But there is a balance, which allows the player a signifigant degree of ownership over the character while still giving the devs the material needed to tell the story.  I feel that Bioware hit this balance in it's older games like Baldur's Gate and Origins.  DA2 and Mass Effect took away to much control and ownership for me. 

[wsandista]

Cimeas wrote...
Bioware needs to make a decision. Either go backwards and return to a silent protagonist, or go all out and create a 'male Hawke' and a 'female Hawke' (or whoever the next protagonist is) and give them a personality. Obviously we should be able to change and influence that, but at least it's there as a base so we can actually roleplay because we know who our character is, rather than the awkward in-between now, where we have bland voice-acted characters.

I completely agree.

Either let us create our own PC or give us a defined PC with a set personality that is well documented. The middle ground doesn't seem to work.

[Olmerto]

wsandista wrote...

Cimeas wrote...
Bioware needs to make a decision. Either go backwards and return to a silent protagonist, or go all out and create a 'male Hawke' and a 'female Hawke' (or whoever the next protagonist is) and give them a personality. Obviously we should be able to change and influence that, but at least it's there as a base so we can actually roleplay because we know who our character is, rather than the awkward in-between now, where we have bland voice-acted characters.

I completely agree.

Either let us create our own PC or give us a defined PC with a set personality that is well documented. The middle ground doesn't seem to work.

I strongly disagree.  While the three personality choices given in DA2 offered less "control" than the 5 lines without voice, a single personality inflection would give us one personality and would be, essentially, a Geralt.  You talk about playing Bioware's character now...

Be careful what you wish for in your nihilistic frame of mind.  I will take 3 personality choices, no matter how discordant if constantly intermixed in dialog, over no choice of personality every day of the week.  You haters just need to get over it and realize the hard limitations on what can be done.

[wsandista]

Olmert wrote...

I strongly disagree.  While the three personality choices given in DA2 offered less "control" than the 5 lines without voice, a single personality inflection would give us one personality and would be, essentially, a Geralt.  You talk about playing Bioware's character now...

Geralt is basically the same as Hawke. The only difference is that Geralt never attempts to be your character, and thus can't fail at it. Hawke does attempt to be your character and fails.

Be careful what you wish for in your nihilistic frame of mind.  I will take 3 personality choices, no matter how discordant if constantly intermixed in dialog, over no choice of personality every day of the week.

And I will take full control over the PC over either. However, if the choice is between 3 of ice cream and one scoop with my choice of cheap flavored syrup, I'd rather enjoy the higher quantity.

You haters just need to get over it and realize the hard limitations on what can be done.

With a silent PC I can play my own character. The limitation is by design.

Modifié par wsandista, 22 août 2012 - 01:58 .

[Olmerto]

wsandista wrote...

Geralt is basically the same as Hawke. The only difference is that Geralt never attempts to be your character, and thus can't fail at it. Hawke does attempt to be your character and fails.

No, Geralt is not the same as Hawke at all.  I've played both and I felt Hawke was my character, and I didn't feel Geralt was. Hawke was no less the player's character than were Cousland or any of the rest, and it definitely didn't "fail".  The only difference was voice acting.  And a certain element have been pitching fits because of that since day one.

Be careful what you wish for in your nihilistic frame of mind.  I will take 3 personality choices, no matter how discordant if constantly intermixed in dialog, over no choice of personality every day of the week.

And I will take full control over the PC over either. However, if the choice is between 3 of ice cream and one scoop with my choice of cheap flavored syrup, I'd rather enjoy the higher quantity.

"Higher quality" in whose opinion?  Not in mine.  You only betray your argument for "player control" by preferring a totally canned character over a Hawke, who at least still allows personality choice.  I don't think too many would agree with you.

You haters just need to get over it and realize the hard limitations on what can be done.

With a silent PC I can play my own character. The limitation is by design.

Sure you can, but that's not going to happen. So like Anders if you don't get your way you just want to blow up the Chantry and give up having any character of your own.

[wsandista]

Olmert wrote...

No, Geralt is not the same as Hawke at all.  I've played both and I felt Hawke was my character, and I didn't feel Geralt was. Hawke was no less the player's character than were Cousland or any of the rest, and it definitely didn't "fail".  The only difference was voice acting.  And a certain element have been pitching fits because of that since day one.

With the paraphrase system, you can't know what your PC is going to say. If the PC contradicts the player's character design for them then they fail. Hawke would often contradict my designs, so Hawke failed.

"Higher quality" in whose opinion?  Not in mine.  You only betray your argument for "player control" by preferring a totally canned character over a Hawke, who at least still allows personality choice.  I don't think too many would agree with you.

There is no control over either Hawke or Geralt. I prefer Geralt because at least you know that Geralt isn't your character while Hawke attempts to be.

Sure you can, but that's not going to happen. So like Anders if you don't get your way you just want to blow up the Chantry and give up having any character of your own.

Or I can play Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns, Dead State, Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition, etc.

[DarthChicken]

Personally, I had no problem feeling like both Hawke and the Warden were my own characters.

[dheer]

LinksOcarina wrote...
Remember when I was the Bhaalspawn...and that being an elf or a dwarf was irrelevant? good times.

I remember that my first Bhaalspawn was an elf and it was relevant to me. They were indeed good times.

To the matter at hand, I agree. I never felt connected to Hawke because of my reduced input into the character. The only thing that hurt the game more for me was the removal of the overhead tactical camera.

Modifié par dheer, 22 août 2012 - 02:49 .

[Realmzmaster]

kellyofthemagi wrote...

Ok, I'm gonna put in my 2 cents, aint worth much anyway these days. I know Bioware wants to give us all a good game. They have been listening to us, but they are not going to be able to please everyone. I know they are looking at games that are doing really well right now (Skyrim) for one. A sleeper they need to check is Kingdoms of Amular Rekkoning if they havn't yet. The open world games. DA open world awesome. I have total faith in the DA writing team. I've heard them say in interview they don't plan on stopping at DA3 so why would they attempt giving us a poor game if they plan on making more. Hears my peddy request though, give us ladies a LI that resembles Jason Mamoa!!!! HOT

You mean the game (Kingdoms of Amular Reckoning) from the development studio that no longer exists because of bad management and overspending. The game did not break 1.5 million copies on all platforms and lost money. And yes I sure they have seen the game since EA was the publisher and they play other company's games.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 22 août 2012 - 03:02 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Cimeas wrote...

Look at the statistics. Less than half of players finished DA2 ONCE, it's not worth it for them to redo all the voice acting just for a small minority of players.

How many times people finish is irrelevant.  I've only finished DAO once, but I've played over a dozen characters.  And I've never finished eitehr BG game at all, but I've probably started more characters in those games than in all other BioWare titles combined.

How many times a game is finished has no relationship at all to how many different characters are played.

And, frankly, I 'm not asking for extra voices.  I'm asking for the ability to turn the one voice off.

[Fast Jimmy]

I cannot wait until Text to Talk software reaches the point where its indistinguishable from a voice actor 90% of the time. I would love to play a game where I can alter the voice to match what is in my head.

In fact, it would honestly not bother me all that much to have a robot voice like Siri (but also a male counterpart) that could be slightly altered. I don't care if my character sounds robo-tronic. In fact, I don't really care if my character has a voice at all. But at least with the robo voice, we won't see Auto-dialogue and the paraphrase system dominate the series.

[PinkDiamondstl]

Dude you are NEVER happy are u?Stop making these cry-baby threads will u.

[Jerrybnsn]

To sum up the ownership of Geralt, Hawk and the Warden.

Geralt-a protagonist you watched
Hawke-a protagonist you directed
Warden-a protagonist you experienced

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I cannot wait until Text to Talk software reaches the point where its indistinguishable from a voice actor 90% of the time. I would love to play a game where I can alter the voice to match what is in my head.

I would actually prefer the voice not be there at all.  I don't listen to myself to see what I'm saying or how I'm saying it.  I think these games would be better for me without the voice, even if everything else was the same.  Even with the paraphrases.  Even with the NPCs being voiced.

Honestly, a silent PC and voiced NPCs is probably my preferred design.  I like NPC voices, but the PC voice does nothing but distract and confuse me.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 22 août 2012 - 05:13 .

[Merlex]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Cimeas wrote...

Look at the statistics. Less than half of players finished DA2 ONCE, it's not worth it for them to redo all the voice acting just for a small minority of players.

How many times people finish is irrelevant.  I've only finished DAO once, but I've played over a dozen characters.  And I've never finished eitehr BG game at all, but I've probably started more characters in those games than in all other BioWare titles combined.

How many times a game is finished has no relationship at all to how many different characters are played.

And, frankly, I 'm not asking for extra voices.  I'm asking for the ability to turn the one voice off.

The problem with turning it off, is they are not showing the text of what is being said. I've gotten used to the idea of voice acting. It makes some of the dramatic scenes better. But i do hate the paraphrasing.

As for playing multiple characters, the same voice does suck. I realise it would be unrealistic for multiple voices, so how about a pitch slider? Should be an easy addition. That would be a step forward, IMHO. That way they could even bring back race selection.

Modifié par Merlex, 22 août 2012 - 05:51 .

[Merlex]

wsandista wrote...

Cimeas wrote...
Bioware needs to make a decision. Either go backwards and return to a silent protagonist, or go all out and create a 'male Hawke' and a 'female Hawke' (or whoever the next protagonist is) and give them a personality. Obviously we should be able to change and influence that, but at least it's there as a base so we can actually roleplay because we know who our character is, rather than the awkward in-between now, where we have bland voice-acted characters.

I completely agree.

Either let us create our own PC or give us a defined PC with a set personality that is well documented. The middle ground doesn't seem to work.

I noticed that on occassion, you get different dialogue with the same choices, depending on your main personality trait. Meaning if i'm playing an aggressive character, i may get a different humorous line then if i'm playing a humorous personality or diplomatic personality.

Since a voiced protagonist is here to stay, i'd like the choice of personality at the start of each playthrough, and stick to that tone. Then give us different responses for each, like they did sometimes with DA2.

I don't want a set personality, i could play The Walking Dead or The Witcher for that.

[Mr Fixit]

Merlex wrote...


I noticed that on occassion, you get different dialogue with the same choices, depending on your main personality trait. Meaning if i'm playing an aggressive character, i may get a different humorous line then if i'm playing a humorous personality or diplomatic personality.

While an interesting concept, it can really break my immersion in a MAJOR way. In my mostly sarcastic playthrough, I sided with templars at the end. When informing Meredith I am good to go, Hawke said something terribly "funny" and inappropriate which had me facepalm. Yeah, my Hawke was a bit of a smartass, but he was terrified and saddened by the events unfolding, not to mention worried about Bethany in the Circle. And here he goes, showing utter nonchalance and disregard for life. 

[Merlex]

Mr Fixit wrote...

Merlex wrote...


I noticed that on occassion, you get different dialogue with the same choices, depending on your main personality trait. Meaning if i'm playing an aggressive character, i may get a different humorous line then if i'm playing a humorous personality or diplomatic personality.

While an interesting concept, it can really break my immersion in a MAJOR way. In my mostly sarcastic playthrough, I sided with templars at the end. When informing Meredith I am good to go, Hawke said something terribly "funny" and inappropriate which had me facepalm. Yeah, my Hawke was a bit of a smartass, but he was terrified and saddened by the events unfolding, not to mention worried about Bethany in the Circle. And here he goes, showing utter nonchalance and disregard for life. 

No that's not what i meant completely. I meant that an aggressive character may have a different diplomatic line than a diplomactic character. Of course it would help if they scrapped the paraphrasing. That way you wouldn't say the 'wrong' thing.

I've played all three personalities, and have started 21 characters. I've been surprised with different diplomatic-aggressive-humorous-flirting dialogues depending on the main personality trait. I don't always choose the aggressive option if i'm aggressive, sometimes i choose the diplomatic way. Sometimes that said line is different, ie: three different diplomactic lines.

This didn't happen often, but it did happen. I'd like to see them expand on it. Three set personalities with different dialogue options.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Merlex wrote...

The problem with turning it off, is they are not showing the text of what is being said.

I'll grant that it doesn't completly fix the problem, but it fixes some of the problem.

Half a solution is better than no solution at all.

I've gotten used to the idea of voice acting.

I haven't.

It makes some of the dramatic scenes better.

I disagree.  I think it harms every aspect of the game.

But i do hate the paraphrasing.

As do I, but that's a different issue.

[Mr Fixit]

Merlex wrote...


No that's not what i meant completely. I meant that an aggressive character may have a different diplomatic line than a diplomactic character. Of course it would help if they scrapped the paraphrasing. That way you wouldn't say the 'wrong' thing.

I'm not entirely certain if we've misunderstood one another or not. I wasn't talking about paraphrasing. If that was the case, I could've simply reloaded and picked diplomatic line instead of sarcastic, in order for my Hawke to show concern/tact/whatever.

When beginning the final attack in the Gallows courtyard, you have only two options when speaking with Meredith. No blue/purple/red, just 'attack' and 'wait' (someone correct me if I misremember). My sarcastic Hawke, if he wanted to press the attack, had no option but to spew nonsense totally incompatible with his intentions.

[Nomen Mendax]

Mr Fixit wrote...


I'm not entirely certain if we've misunderstood one another or not. I wasn't talking about paraphrasing. If that was the case, I could've simply reloaded and picked diplomatic line instead of sarcastic, in order for my Hawke to show concern/tact/whatever.

When beginning the final attack in the Gallows courtyard, you have only two options when speaking with Meredith. No blue/purple/red, just 'attack' and 'wait' (someone correct me if I misremember). My sarcastic Hawke, if he wanted to press the attack, had no option but to spew nonsense totally incompatible with his intentions.

I didn't like DA2 (still haven't managed to get near to finishing it) but comments like yours make me wonder how some of its problems may be more because of it being rushed than the ugly (IMO) paraphrase system.  There were a lot of changes from DAO to DA2, most of which I didn't like, but I think the negative effects of these changes were compounded by the short development time.

Paraphrasing is always going to cause problems for those of us that want as much conrtrol as possible over what  the PC is going to say, but not having enough dialogue choices is really a separate issue.

Modifié par Nomen Mendax, 22 août 2012 - 07:23 .

[Merlex]

Mr Fixit wrote...

Merlex wrote...


No that's not what i meant completely. I meant that an aggressive character may have a different diplomatic line than a diplomactic character. Of course it would help if they scrapped the paraphrasing. That way you wouldn't say the 'wrong' thing.

I'm not entirely certain if we've misunderstood one another or not. I wasn't talking about paraphrasing. If that was the case, I could've simply reloaded and picked diplomatic line instead of sarcastic, in order for my Hawke to show concern/tact/whatever.

No i got you. I just throw in my distaste for paraphrasing anytime i post about dialogue. Sorry, my ADD came out.

When beginning the final attack in the Gallows courtyard, you have only two options when speaking with Meredith. No blue/purple/red, just 'attack' and 'wait' (someone correct me if I misremember). My sarcastic Hawke, if he wanted to press the attack, had no option but to spew nonsense totally incompatible with his intentions.

You're correct. They didn't have near enough choices. I just liked how sometimes the diplomatic line was different for a diplomatic personality than it was for an aggressive personality. Like i said. they didn't do it often, i hope they expand on this in DA3. It would feel more like a dialogue tree, than a dialogue wheel.

[PsychoBlonde]

Cutlasskiwi wrote...

I've never been able to create "my" character. It has always been BioWare's and I've always approached them from a 3rd person perspective.

This is what fanfiction is for.  The game itself is always going to have limitations that prevent some people from feeling like the protagonist is "theirs".  Hawke always felt like "my" Hawke, the difference was more subtle--Hawke didn't feel like "me, in the game", largely because of Hawke's family hanging about the place.  My Mage Warden, however, worked (reasonably) well on the self-insertion wish-fulfillment perspective, although I didn't get dialog options to tell people off nearly as often as I wanted to.

However, I'm happy with either type of game.  What annoyed me the most with DA2 (and Origins, come to think of it) was the horrible tedious repetitive uninteresting gameplay.

[Rawgrim]

Well, technically, you allways play a developers character. In skyrim you play a dragonborn, in the Witcher you play Geralt, in the BG saga you play a bhaalspawn etc. But at least in most games, you get to pick your own name or race.In DA2 you get to pick 1 of 3 classes. thats it. Sure you can pick gender, but that has absolutely zero impact on the game.No impact on romances either.