280 réponses à ce sujet

[saMoorai]

Ikr? In Origins, I wanted to be a baker from Denerim who didn't care about the blight, but noooooooooo. When will Bioware just let me roleplay?!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Rawgrim wrote...

Well, technically, you allways play a developers character. In skyrim you play a dragonborn, in the Witcher you play Geralt, in the BG saga you play a bhaalspawn etc. But at least in most games, you get to pick your own name or race.In DA2 you get to pick 1 of 3 classes. thats it.

In most games you can design your character's personality.  In DA2 you're saddled with whatever strange chimera that emerges from the paraphrases and dominant tone.

[Fast Jimmy]

saMOOrai182 wrote...

Ikr? In Origins, I wanted to be a baker from Denerim who didn't care about the blight, but noooooooooo. When will Bioware just let me roleplay?!

You joke, but you could totally do this in Ultima 7 instead of being the Avatar.

[ArenCordial]

I started a thread not too long ago discussing what specific thing BioWare would need to do to bring me back as a consumer for DA3.

http://social.biowar.../index/13793078

and this was definately made the list.

[Nathanmaxtro]

I felt the same way about my Shepard in Mass Effect 3.

I was very uncomfortable about how she kept flirting with Vega. She wasn't even into men. ME1 love interest was Liara, 3 was that British girl on the Normanday but the real love was still Liara.

She has never even been with a man, except for that one time with Garrus, and neither of them can remember how or what actually happened.

[KENNY4753]

The biggest problem people have with Hawke in DA2 is that there isn't as much custimization. In orgins you could choose race and had your own backround story to play through. People loved that and then BW removed that aspect for the dialoge/VA. Personally I was fine with the 5 or 6 options for dialoge and not hearing my charactor speak. I know what he was going to say, I didn't need a VA saying it for me. They tried to turn Dragon Age into Dragon Effect or Mass Age (take your pick) by removing the best elements of orgins. Don't get me wrong I loved Mass Effect but they ruined dragon age by trying to make the 2 game franchises similar.

[cephasjames]

JasonPogo wrote...
I want to play my character not Bioware's...

I would suggest creating your own game then.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You joke, but you could totally do this in Ultima 7 instead of being the Avatar.

This is part of why I think the standard I demand from game designers isn't unreasonable.  Games have done this sort of thing before.

[LinksOcarina]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You joke, but you could totally do this in Ultima 7 instead of being the Avatar.

This is part of why I think the standard I demand from game designers isn't unreasonable.  Games have done this sort of thing before.

So...doing that in Ultima 7 made you beat the game? 

[JasonPogo]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Dude you are NEVER happy are u?Stop making these cry-baby threads will u.

Oh I am so sorry I'll try and make a really happy post next time. Just for you!

[Nomen Mendax]

cephasjames wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...
I want to play my character not Bioware's...

I would suggest creating your own game then.

But if you made your own game you would know the entire plot so that really isn't a very helpful suggestion.

[Sylvius the Mad]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You joke, but you could totally do this in Ultima 7 instead of being the Avatar.

This is part of why I think the standard I demand from game designers isn't unreasonable.  Games have done this sort of thing before.

So...doing that in Ultima 7 made you beat the game?

If your goal was to be a baker, yes.

There's no requirement that all players have the same objective when they play games.  There's no requirement that you have the same objective every time you play a particular game.

My goal in roleplaying games is to play my character.  If I do that well, then I have effectively beaten the game (regardless of how much of the authored narrative my character ever encounters).

[Fast Jimmy]

^
Indeed.

In games like Fable, people find it fun to spend more hours than it takes to beat the main plot to instead work, kill, manipulate and do anything neccessarily to own every property in the game. In Crusaded Kings 2, people directly oppose the flow and mechanics of the game to conquer the world, something the designer's did not want to be as a goal. In Ultima, you could harvest wheat, take it to a grind stone, make flour, add water to make dough, use a rolling pin and then put it in the oven to make a loaf of bread. You could then sell it for money. You could do similar things throughout the game, including making your own sword in a blacksmith.

Does it enrich the story? No. But it enriches the WORLD the game shows you. And I. That enriched world, you can play however you like. In DA2, you moved forward, in the same direction, through the same quests, with only different hump buddies and three different ways to say yes.

You couldn't work to help the mages. You couldn't help stand stalwart with the Templars. You couldn't try and help your fellow Fereldens (except sentence them to death in your mine). You couldn't be a brigand or thief and rob anyone. You couldn't offer our services to the Greg Wardens. You couldn't turn Lord Harrowmont's family member over to the Carta for extra change. You couldn't craft potions to sell for money, or help Boedan and Sandal set up a proper shop. You didn't have the freedom to do much of anything other than exactly what was required to finish the game.

And that's a shame.

[Nomen Mendax]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^
Indeed.

In games like Fable, people find it fun to spend more hours than it takes to beat the main plot to instead work, kill, manipulate and do anything neccessarily to own every property in the game. In Crusaded Kings 2, people directly oppose the flow and mechanics of the game to conquer the world, something the designer's did not want to be as a goal. In Ultima, you could harvest wheat, take it to a grind stone, make flour, add water to make dough, use a rolling pin and then put it in the oven to make a loaf of bread. You could then sell it for money. You could do similar things throughout the game, including making your own sword in a blacksmith.

Does it enrich the story? No. But it enriches the WORLD the game shows you. And I. That enriched world, you can play however you like. In DA2, you moved forward, in the same direction, through the same quests, with only different hump buddies and three different ways to say yes.

You couldn't work to help the mages. You couldn't help stand stalwart with the Templars. You couldn't try and help your fellow Fereldens (except sentence them to death in your mine). You couldn't be a brigand or thief and rob anyone. You couldn't offer our services to the Greg Wardens. You couldn't turn Lord Harrowmont's family member over to the Carta for extra change. You couldn't craft potions to sell for money, or help Boedan and Sandal set up a proper shop. You didn't have the freedom to do much of anything other than exactly what was required to finish the game.

And that's a shame.

That's one of the big advantages of save the world plots -- there is an obvious reason to go along with the plot.  If you are going to make a game where you are essentially making your own place in the world and choosing between different shades of grey then you need many many more options than you do in a game where if you don't act you will be dooming an entire civilization.

I got de-motivated pretty early on in DA2 by what I perceived as my character's whiny mother, and the way I was being forced to make money to move my family to better housing.  My PC would have been happier to have given the first 100GP she earned to her mother and then have left for a less inhospitable (and crime-ridden) city.

Modifié par Nomen Mendax, 23 août 2012 - 03:06 .

[Fisto The Sexbot]

cephasjames wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...
I want to play my character not Bioware's...

I would suggest creating your own game then.

You don't have to create your own game for that; you just have to play a game that allows you to create your own character. Before "I just want to experience the storie lulz", people actually bought games from this company expecting to be able to roleplay.

Modifié par Fisto The Sexbot, 23 août 2012 - 03:27 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

In games like Fable, people find it fun to spend more hours than it takes to beat the main plot to instead work, kill, manipulate and do anything neccessarily to own every property in the game. In Crusaded Kings 2, people directly oppose the flow and mechanics of the game to conquer the world, something the designer's did not want to be as a goal. In Ultima, you could harvest wheat, take it to a grind stone, make flour, add water to make dough, use a rolling pin and then put it in the oven to make a loaf of bread. You could then sell it for money. You could do similar things throughout the game, including making your own sword in a blacksmith.

At the beginning of Ultima IX, you start out in your house before passing through the moongate to Britannia.  You have a small fenced yard, and out the gate there's a path to the moongate.  Sounds simple.

But in your house, there's a breadmaking machine and the necessary ingredients.  You can bake a whole bunch of loaves of bread, carry them outside (a few at a time), build a ramp out of bread, and leave your yard in the wrong direction.  And there's actual content over there, even though there is no story-related reason ever to even consider the possibility of finding it.

Does it enrich the story? No. But it enriches the WORLD the game shows you.

This is why I find it valuable to discuss two different kinds of stories.  The authored narrative, the thing written by BioWare which they call the story, and the emergent narrative, which is the story created by your actions.

And while this sort of content does nothing at all for the authored narrative, it absolutely does enrich the emergent narrative.

[Xewaka]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
You joke, but you could totally do this in Ultima 7 instead of being the Avatar.

This is part of why I think the standard I demand from game designers isn't unreasonable.  Games have done this sort of thing before.

So...doing that in Ultima 7 made you beat the game? 

My first Baldur's Gate run was with a Rogue character. He ended up owning the Thieves' Guild of Amn. He never even left to find Imoen, preferring the life of the Guildmaster.
It was my favourite run of BG2.

Modifié par Xewaka, 23 août 2012 - 08:49 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Merlex wrote...
No that's not what i meant completely. I meant that an aggressive character may have a different diplomatic line than a diplomactic character. Of course it would help if they scrapped the paraphrasing. That way you wouldn't say the 'wrong' thing.

I've played all three personalities, and have started 21 characters. I've been surprised with different diplomatic-aggressive-humorous-flirting dialogues depending on the main personality trait. I don't always choose the aggressive option if i'm aggressive, sometimes i choose the diplomatic way. Sometimes that said line is different, ie: three different diplomactic lines.

This didn't happen often, but it did happen. I'd like to see them expand on it. Three set personalities with different dialogue options.

I'd rather teh game not try to guess what I want or what my "personality" is.
I'd rather have 3-4 different UNPARAPHRASED diplomatic option so I can shoose what I want, insted of hte game selecting one for me.

[Rawgrim]

cephasjames wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...
I want to play my character not Bioware's...

I would suggest creating your own game then.

Yeah, and if you find a fly in your soup at a restaurant, you shouldn`t complain (even if you paid for the soup), you should just go home and make your own soup.

[Leoroc]

I would love a nick name like Fable 2's sparrow. Maybe your origin choices could determine which you get.

I think the devs have heard our voice on this issue though. They have said agency and making the character feel like your own are top priorities.

[Jerrybnsn]

Rawgrim wrote...

Yeah, and if you find a fly in your soup at a restaurant, you shouldn`t complain (even if you paid for the soup), you should just go home and make your own soup.

But flies in soup are unique.  Many gamers are tired of the same generic soup.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 23 août 2012 - 12:25 .

[Foolsfolly]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Yeah, and if you find a fly in your soup at a restaurant, you shouldn`t complain (even if you paid for the soup), you should just go home and make your own soup.

But flies in soup are unique.  Many gamers are tired of the same generic soup.

What if that fly was placed in the soup because it was an artistic statement. [/Mass Effect 3 ending joke]

[Fast Jimmy]

Leoroc wrote...

I would love a nick name like Fable 2's sparrow. Maybe your origin choices could determine which you get.

I think the devs have heard our voice on this issue though. They have said agency and making the character feel like your own are top priorities.

Which is encouraging. however promises made during development are not always promies kept. So I appreciate that they are stating that as a problem to be overcome, but Bioware devs also stated this time last year that Mass Effect 3 would have vastly different endings, a final battle that would be different depending on your choice in previous games and unique, satisfying conclusions to big topic items like the Rachni Queen.

So... I'll believe it when I see it. Which is why I'm glad Gaider and company have taken a tight-lipped, "we won't talk about much until we have more to actually show" approach, even though it leads to lots of speculation and a lack of information.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Yeah, and if you find a fly in your soup at a restaurant, you shouldn`t complain (even if you paid for the soup), you should just go home and make your own soup.

But flies in soup are unique.  Many gamers are tired of the same generic soup.

Quite right! How could anyone walk into a restaurant and have the audacity to order a soup and expect nothing less! The fly is complimentary! It's a feature!

If you don't like your fly broth then you're simply suffering from misaligned expectations or you're just not ding dong awesome enough to understand the recipe.