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[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I've always been curious, why no Fisto the Sexbot avatar, Fisto the Sexbot?

[Fisto The Sexbot]

mostly cba,

By the way, I really like your 'Let's Play', CrustyBot!

[Merlex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Merlex wrote...
No that's not what i meant completely. I meant that an aggressive character may have a different diplomatic line than a diplomactic character. Of course it would help if they scrapped the paraphrasing. That way you wouldn't say the 'wrong' thing.

I've played all three personalities, and have started 21 characters. I've been surprised with different diplomatic-aggressive-humorous-flirting dialogues depending on the main personality trait. I don't always choose the aggressive option if i'm aggressive, sometimes i choose the diplomatic way. Sometimes that said line is different, ie: three different diplomactic lines.

This didn't happen often, but it did happen. I'd like to see them expand on it. Three set personalities with different dialogue options.

I'd rather teh game not try to guess what I want or what my "personality" is.
I'd rather have 3-4 different UNPARAPHRASED diplomatic option so I can shoose what I want, insted of hte game selecting one for me.

I wasn't suggesting paraphrasing, you haven't been reading the thread. I am very much against the paraphrasing system. And i have stated on this thread in two other post, that i hate the paraphrasing system. I want to see what my protagonist is saying.

Three or four diplomatic options would be nice (a dialogue tree), but they have already said that they are going with the wheel. They have also stated that they are going with a voiced protagonist. I don't believe that they are going to change their minds on those things.

I'm trying to find a middle ground. To get us as close to an unvoiced protagonist with a dialogue tree as possible, under these conditions. 

[Narosian]

I actually like hawk mostly. Even If we play as someone else in DA3 I would be disappointed if we didn't hear anything about him/her in DA3. While I do generally find it easier to get into playing as an unvoiced character, I do like playing voiced characters too. That said, I can at least agree that I don't like the paraphrasing.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Merlex wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I'd rather teh game not try to guess what I want or what my "personality" is.
I'd rather have 3-4 different UNPARAPHRASED diplomatic option so I can shoose what I want, insted of hte game selecting one for me.

I wasn't suggesting paraphrasing, you haven't been reading the thread. I am very much against the paraphrasing system. And i have stated on this thread in two other post, that i hate the paraphrasing system. I want to see what my protagonist is saying.

Three or four diplomatic options would be nice (a dialogue tree), but they have already said that they are going with the wheel. They have also stated that they are going with a voiced protagonist. I don't believe that they are going to change their minds on those things.

I'm trying to find a middle ground. To get us as close to an unvoiced protagonist with a dialogue tree as possible, under these conditions. 

Well, you CAN get multiple options (and even non-paraphrase) even with a wheel, but it requires a bit of ...enginuity... and it becomes slightly more cumbersome to navigate.

Basicly select between diplomatic/funny/hostile/nutral/whatever.
You get 4 options under that category (and a back bottun). Select one to see the full text.
It's a bit unwieldy, but that's the limit of the wheel sysstem, which BioWare now can't let go.

[PinkDiamondstl]

I hope and pray that they never bring back the unvoiced protagonist.

[zyntifox]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Merlex wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I'd rather teh game not try to guess what I want or what my "personality" is.
I'd rather have 3-4 different UNPARAPHRASED diplomatic option so I can shoose what I want, insted of hte game selecting one for me.

I wasn't suggesting paraphrasing, you haven't been reading the thread. I am very much against the paraphrasing system. And i have stated on this thread in two other post, that i hate the paraphrasing system. I want to see what my protagonist is saying.

Three or four diplomatic options would be nice (a dialogue tree), but they have already said that they are going with the wheel. They have also stated that they are going with a voiced protagonist. I don't believe that they are going to change their minds on those things.

I'm trying to find a middle ground. To get us as close to an unvoiced protagonist with a dialogue tree as possible, under these conditions. 

Well, you CAN get multiple options (and even non-paraphrase) even with a wheel, but it requires a bit of ...enginuity... and it becomes slightly more cumbersome to navigate.

Basicly select between diplomatic/funny/hostile/nutral/whatever.
You get 4 options under that category (and a back bottun). Select one to see the full text.
It's a bit unwieldy, but that's the limit of the wheel sysstem, which BioWare now can't let go.

Can't understand the fascination with the wheel, and i am playing on console.. But if they are hell-bent on using it they can start with putting it in a corner and thus leaving more room for text.

[PinkDiamondstl]

JasonPogo wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Dude you are NEVER happy are u?Stop making these cry-baby threads will u.

Oh I am so sorry I'll try and make a really happy post next time. Just for you!

Now there is no need for the smart a** comment Jason, but u are clearly a nit-picker.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

[Sylvius the Mad]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

I hope and pray that they never bring back the unvoiced protagonist.

Not even as an option?  Why would you oppose that?

[Cultist]

OP do you realize how stupid your request sounds?

[MerinTB]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...
I hope and pray that they never bring back the unvoiced protagonist.

Not even as an option?  Why would you oppose that?

I want there to be games that do one or the other, so everyone has options! 

I'll likely pick unvoiced for deeper RPGs, and be good with voiced for more scripted games where my character is more preset.

[Sylvius the Mad]

If both were made, I'd probably stick to the unvoiced games only.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

I hope and pray that they never bring back the unvoiced protagonist.

Not even as an option?  Why would you oppose that?

That's a bad compromise imo. All we'd get is a mute protagonist with the same three flavours of personality, which is no different than switching off voice-acting.

[PhillyB]

Cultist wrote...

OP do you realize how stupid your request sounds?

What? The Op's request is completely reasonable. He/She is just trying to maintain their "intrist" in the series.

[PinkDiamondstl]

PhillyB wrote...

Cultist wrote...

OP do you realize how stupid your request sounds?

What? The Op's request is completely reasonable. He/She is just trying to maintain their "intrist" in the series.

It's a guy and most of his threads are just plain ridiculous.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]

[Jerrybnsn]

Cultist wrote...

OP do you realize how stupid your request sounds?

The more successful rpgs in the gaming industry have had silent protagonists.  They make role playing more immersive and is a very valid arguement.  Which makes you wonder why Bioware would sacrifice this and sales just for a more cinematic experience. 

[Welsh Inferno]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...
It's a guy and most of his threads are just plain ridiculous.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]

Tell me how is the OP ridiculous? Sounds perfectly reasonable.

OP I feel the same. Any Hawke I create, it never feels like my character. I can never feel connected in the slightest to hawke or his family. Yet loved my Origins character. Same with ME3 to. Love my Shepard in ME1 & 2 but doesn't seem like the same person in the 3rd.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 25 août 2012 - 11:10 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Cultist wrote...

OP do you realize how stupid your request sounds?

The more successful rpgs in the gaming industry have had silent protagonists.  They make role playing more immersive and is a very valid arguement.  Which makes you wonder why Bioware would sacrifice this and sales just for a more cinematic experience. 

This.

The top selling RPGs of all time, whether you want to focus on old-school cRPGs like Ultima, Wizardry, Baldur's Gate or Fallout, or you want to look at JRPGs, like Pokemon, Crono Trigger or Final Fantasy games up to the PS2, or Bioware properties like Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire and DA:O, to new blockbusters like Skyrim and Fallout 3/NV... in fact, the only game that falls into the RPG category that has sold large amounts and also had a voiced protagonist is Final Fantasy X, XII and XIII.

HOWEVER... there is a huge caveat to that. The character only speaks in cinematics. The JRPG version of a conversation usually involves random townspeople giving you tidbits of advice or lore without the hero every responding and then cinematics, where the plot is advanced and the personality of your character is demonstrated for you, while a Bioware game involves most conversations being in-depth and having options, options where you character would need to speak.

Which is a bad idea. In a JRPG, people don't mind that the choice in personality is being made for them because 95% of the time, it isn't offered. Sure, you may get the occassional reaction or choice the player controls, but the majority of the games are linear in their interactions. In a Bioware game, where you have the option in almost every conversation to assert your personality or choice, to further define the character as you would want them to be. If the voiced PC tramples on that (or even treads on it lightly, to be honest), its a mistake and the illusion is broken, which makes any further, subsequent breaks in immersion that much more jarring oand obvious.

You know that old saying about the way to make a baby cry is to give him candy, then take it away? That's what giving players constant dialogue choice and then having theri character do something opposite of what they expected is - its just going to dangle something and then snatch it away, which is worse than just not offering it at all.

This is NOT a request for all Auto-dialogue from a protagonist. Given that the most popular RPGs ever made all use a non-speaking main character, I would say it is an indictment of the voice PC altogether.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 25 août 2012 - 12:30 .

[Pasquale1234]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
You know that old saying about the way to make a baby cry is to give him candy, then take it away? That's what giving players constant dialogue choice and then having theri character do something opposite of what they expected is - its just going to dangle something and then snatch it away, which is worse than just not offering it at all.

This reminds me of the incident where, at the end of "Enemies Among Us", Anders suggests not mentioning the use of blood magic to Cullen, but as soon as you click on Cullen, Hawke spouts off about blood magic.  One of many times when the game broke my character and intentions.  I don't recall ever having to metagame to the point I did in DA2 in order to get through a playthrough that made any sort of sense to me.

This is NOT a request for all Auto-dialogue from a protagonist. Given that the most popular RPGs ever made all use a non-speaking main character, I would say it is an indictment of the voice PC altogether.

+1

Hawke felt like any other NPC to me, not a character I can role-play.  My only options with Hawke were to decide whether s/he would be diplomatic, snarky, or assertive in any given dialogue... and those choices would further limit your options later in the game.

As part of their goal to try to make the game a more seamless interactive cinematic experience, the writers fill in a lot of the blanks that were formerly left to the player - motives, opinions, what info to tell versus withhold, all of it.

I still can't say that I understand the difference between a character like Hawke versus a completely predefined character.  The player was allowed to choose gender, class, and appearance for Hawke, but every line of dialogue and it's delivery was already pre-programmed, with all of the blanks filled in.

[JasonPogo]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...
It's a guy and most of his threads are just plain ridiculous.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]

Tell me how is the OP ridiculous? Sounds perfectly reasonable.

OP I feel the same. Any Hawke I create, it never feels like my character. I can never feel connected in the slightest to hawke or his family. Yet loved my Origins character. Same with ME3 to. Love my Shepard in ME1 & 2 but doesn't seem like the same person in the 3rd.

I start threads about what bothers me in Biowares games so other members of the BSN seem to consider me a whiner.  You know since the point if a message board is not to voice your opinions on things....

[jbrand2002uk]

JasonPogo wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...
It's a guy and most of his threads are just plain ridiculous.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie][smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]

Tell me how is the OP ridiculous? Sounds perfectly reasonable.

OP I feel the same. Any Hawke I create, it never feels like my character. I can never feel connected in the slightest to hawke or his family. Yet loved my Origins character. Same with ME3 to. Love my Shepard in ME1 & 2 but doesn't seem like the same person in the 3rd.

I start threads about what bothers me in Biowares games so other members of the BSN seem to consider me a whiner.  You know since the point if a message board is not to voice your opinions on things....

From now on your handle will be KingNegativity Lord of the whingers:D
Seriously though unless you personally write the script yourself no videogame Character is ever yours not even the Warden being able to choose its race,gender,class and physical appearence does not make it any more or less yours than say only being able to choose facial fetures and class only.Besides since as DAO's story has the same choice of endings regardless of your choices the aforementioned choices are rendered mute and irrelevant, nothing more than shiny windrow dressinng to hide the dull story and copious amounts of brown and outdated graphics 20 years ago back when the SNES was the latest console poor graphics were acceptable now they're just unforgivable.

[JasonPogo]

If you take the time to read my post and not just the thread title you will see I am asking more that they bring back the feeling that it is my character. I get it people. Yes no matter what the character is always Biowares. Yes I know I didn't write it, i don't make games. But take just a moment to read what this thread is about. It is about giving the player the swnce of ownership over who their personal character is going to be throughout the game. I even stated in my original post that I am no expert on these things.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

I hope and pray that they never bring back the unvoiced protagonist.

Not even as an option?  Why would you oppose that?

That's a bad compromise imo. All we'd get is a mute protagonist with the same three flavours of personality, which is no different than switching off voice-acting.

Switching off voice-acting would be a massive win.  The fixed voice and delivery of each line badly harms the game - turning the voice off solves both of those.

No, it wouldn't be as good as having a game designed for a silent protagonist, but it would be better than what we get now.

[Sylvius the Mad]

JasonPogo wrote...

Yes no matter what the character is always Biowares.

I don't agree with this at all.  If the character ever belongs to BioWare rather than the player, the game is broken.

[Cimeas]

Voice acting is the direction bioware have taken their games. While we're here discussing how they can make them better, a subset of the forum population is intent on just repeating the same arguments about why VO should be removed. They are valid arguments, but not in discussions on the future of dragon age.

It's like saying 'I think the next dragon age should be changed so that the warden is the main character and it should be set in a time where an inter dimensional portal to the forgotten realms opens up and you should have the hero from NWN join you party.'. It's not going to happen. Confirmed. Instead we could discuss hopes and expectations, and things w don't know yet.