36 réponses à ce sujet

[CuriousArtemis]

MissRedZelda wrote...

I actually kinda agree with Amriti. Dragon Age is set in medieval Europe, a time when seeing a person of darker skin than a Southern France/Spain/Southern Italy was such a big rarity, that it was a big deal when one present (for example, Shakespeare's 'Othello').

Well, but it's not set IN medieval Europe; it's BASED ON medieval Europe.  It's still a fantasy world.  And I think not including Black people in DA:O was a sad mistake, just as it was a mistake to limit gay PCs but not straight ones. DA2 rectified the latter error.  I think they can fully rectify the race error and include people of color just milling about the streets, selling wares, acting as soldiers, templars, mages, slavers, smugglers, what have you.  There's nothing wrong with having people of color in a sword and sorcery fantasy world setting.  Like I said, if it bothers a player on a biological level ("How can dark- and light-skinned people coexist in the same climate? Why would they develop different skin tones then?") then just assume all the dark-skinned folks have traveled down from the north.  Or their parents did, or their grandparents or great-grandparents.

I mean, there was a giant Mediterranean Sea separating people in Europe and Africa; there's no such sea in Thedas. Euorpeans and Africans also had different religious beliefs; there has been no suggestion of anything of the sort in Thedas. So there is no reason why dark-skinned and light-skinned people shouldn't be intermingling. At least, there hasn't been any REASON given.

And when so many players are people of color themselves, well, it just sucks to play a game full of white people. And to me, "but it's a fantasy setting based on Europe" is not a good enough excuse!

Modifié par motomotogirl, 24 août 2012 - 06:05 .

[MissRedZelda]

You know what, this thread actually got me thinking. So, I did a little Googling and found this little article with direct quotes from Mr. Gaider himself about the situation. And they're pretty much what some of us have been saying. All of our Origins characters are born and raised in Ferelden, with Ferelden parents and Ferelden ancestors. And Ferelden is basically Medieval England. A time when multiculturalism did not exist. So, having a dark skinned character wouldn't make sense. It would be like putting White people in games set in Japanese Samurai fantasy games, or Chinese fantasy Wushu movies. You don't see White people complaining about that, do you?

That being said, I would love to check out Rivaini :-)

Here's the link to the article: http://www.cinemable...-All-22178.html

EDIT: Really sorry to drag this on, but I really feel I should use one last example.

Moto, have you by any chance played Jade Empire? I've managed to procure myself a copy, and I love it. It's another Bioware game and it's set in ancient China. You can make your own character (sort of), but it has one distict factor. You can only make an Asian character. In fact, almost every single person you encounter is Asian! (Aside from this one guy who is White, but the game makes it very clear that he's the Token White and very out of place in the game's early Chinese setting. Personally, I think they should have not had him there in the first place).

And you know what, I don't have a problem with this at all. Why? Because I understand that due to it's setting (Ancient China), White people would be very out of place in the game. So, being given the choice to make a White person and let him/her loose in the Jade empire world would not have made an iota of sense.

Now, in Mass Effect, the race option makes sense. It's more ingrained in our world, and seems to be set in a future where women can fight on the front line alongside their male compadres (can I, a non-America use that term?).  Frankly, I would have been very shocked if there was no other race option.

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 24 août 2012 - 09:52 .

[AbsoluteApril]

motomotogirl wrote...
 There's nothing wrong with having people of color in a sword and sorcery fantasy world setting.  Like I said, if it bothers a player on a biological level ("How can dark- and light-skinned people coexist in the same climate? Why would they develop different skin tones then?") then just assume all the dark-skinned folks have traveled down from the north.  Or their parents did, or their grandparents or great-grandparents.

this is supported by Gaider's description of the mage Severen in the book Stolen Throne...

text from The Stolen Throne...

He was from neither Ferelden nor Orlais, but from across the Waking Sea and far to the north, as his swarthy* skin implied.

*Swarthy = dark-skinned

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 27 août 2012 - 08:07 .

[MissRedZelda]

I don't really have a problem with having dark-skinned people in the game. But they have to have a reason to be there, giving that the game is set during a time when there was no such thing as multiculturalism. Dagna says that it takes over two week to reach the Circle Tower from Orzamarr; imagine how long it would take to travel to another continent! This was the reason why people tended to stay in their own areas in the past, before travel became a hell of a lot easier.

What I think is best if they find a way in integrate Black people into the story. Just putting them in the background to meet a race quota is a cop out and racist in itself. Gaider himself said that Black people do exist in the DA universe, but they are on another continent. Thedas IS Europe.

That being said, Ravaini kinda reminds me of the Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal). For about 800 years, the Moors controlled it, so that explains why Isabela is so dark. The Moors were people of Spanish and Arab decent, and a bit of Northern Africa as well.

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 28 août 2012 - 05:43 .

[SerTabris]

One thing I've noticed, now that I'm playing DA2 again with a medium-toned (around the middle of the slider) Hawke and using Isabela more, is that the lighting in darker areas does not deal with darker-skinned characters very well; they should really improve that (from what I recall, it does better than DA:O, but still could use some improvement).

Also, is it just me, or does 'swarthy' just not sound very nice as a word? I've been listening to the audiobook Stolen Throne and Calling, and Gaider seems to use it quite a bit, but it always strikes me as the least-pleasant-sounding word for dark skin on offer.

Lastly, if they introduce only one black character, I do hope it's not someone like Severan. That would have... unfortunate implications.

Modifié par SerTabris, 28 août 2012 - 06:29 .

[Danny Boy 7]

MissRedZelda wrote...

I don't really have a problem with having dark-skinned people in the game. But they have to have a reason to be there, giving that the game is set during a time when there was no such thing as multiculturalism. Dagna says that it takes over two week to reach the Circle Tower from Orzamarr; imagine how long it would take to travel to another continent! This was the reason why people tended to stay in their own areas in the past, before travel became a hell of a lot easier.

What I think is best if they find a way in integrate Black people into the story. Just putting them in the background to meet a race quota is a cop out and racist in itself. Gaider himself said that Black people do exist in the DA universe, but they are on another continent. Thedas IS Europe.

That being said, Ravaini kinda reminds me of the Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal). For about 800 years, the Moors controlled it, so that explains why Isabela is so dark. The Moors were people of Spanish and Arab decent, and a bit of Northern Africa as well.

I guess I can agree with you about them needing a reason for being there, but I don't want it to be like, "OMG black guy!" know what I mean. It should be something subtle since this is a world with darker skinned individuals. Either they assume your from Rivain or you give them a general idea of why that character is darker than most.

In art where a character was black David Gaider often referred to them as Antivan or Rivaini so the precedent is there and while Antiva/Rivain is based on Spain it seems that they decided to have both the "spanish" and "latino" variants present, so seeing a black person (if we're focused on the skin color rather than the cultural/racial background) is plausible for this setting as it is.

That is of course if you've been around enough latin people 

[Wrathion]

Why do people make forums like this?

It only invites people to say stupid things.

Like; "I'm sorry, but you need a reason to exist. Not the elves, dwarves, dragons, mages, giant spiders, or darkspawn, ONLY you...dark skinned people."

Modifié par Alexandrine Delassixe, 10 septembre 2012 - 02:20 .

[Newnation]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

Why do people make forums like this?

It only invites people to say stupid things.

Like; "I'm sorry, but you need a reason to exist. Not the elves, dwarves, dragons, mages, giant spiders, or darkspawn, ONLY you...dark skinned people."

That is hilarious.....and true.

[Amirit]

Newnation wrote...
That is hilarious.....and true.

Please, just read that again:

MissRedZelda wrote...

Moto, have you by any chance played Jade Empire? I've managed to procure myself a copy, and I love it. It's another Bioware game and it's set in ancient China. You can make your own character (sort of), but it has one distict factor. You can only make an Asian character. In fact, almost every single person you encounter is Asian! (Aside from this one guy who is White, but the game makes it very clear that he's the Token White and very out of place in the game's early Chinese setting. Personally, I think they should have not had him there in the first place). 

And you know what, I don't have a problem with this at all. Why? Because I understand that due to it's setting (Ancient China), White people would be very out of place in the game. So, being given the choice to make a White person and let him/her loose in the Jade empire world would not have made an iota of sense.

Now, in Mass Effect, the race option makes sense. It's more ingrained in our world, and seems to be set in a future where women can fight on the front line alongside their male compadres (can I, a non-America use that term?).  Frankly, I would have been very shocked if there was no other race option.

 

[CuriousArtemis]

Excluding white people from a setting is not the same as excluding any other skin color from a game. That's the sad truth of our world.

[ejl501]

I don't think this is done on purpose we tend to write characters who look like us however in the context of this game there is an opportunity to have more people of color. Also I find it kind of interesting to see some people explaining this issue away with "It's based on historical Medieval Europe." Key word based, If that were truly the case then we also shouldn't be able to play as a woman. They were kind of second class citizens back then, not that I would want that I'm just pointing out that excuse is silly. Anyways what I'm trying to say is that this is Thedas not Earth and as such we should be able to rise above the truly sad prejudices that have plagued our history. 

Modifié par ejl501, 05 octobre 2012 - 01:14 .

[homew3rk]

ejl501 wrote...

I don't think this is done on purpose we tend to write characters who look like us however in the context of this game there is an opportunity to have more people of color. Also I find it kind of interesting to see some people explaining this issue away with "It's based on historical Medieval Europe." Key word based, If that were truly the case then we also shouldn't be able to play as a woman. They were kind of second class citizens back then, not that I would want that I'm just pointing out that excuse is silly. Anyways what I'm trying to say is that this is Thedas not Earth and as such we should be able to rise above the truly sad prejudices that have plagued our history. 

There is a reason that woman are considered equal to men in Thedas, and that is because Andraste is the figurehead of the Chantry. Yes there are differences between Thedas and medieval Europe, but those differences have a reason behind them.

Also, keeping in mind  the technological level of Thedas, travel would not be very easy so there would be nowhere near as much homoginization as there is in our modern day world.

So yes, the setting does matter, if I were reading a book/watching a movie/playing a video game that took place in a fantasy setting on a continent with a climate based off of Africa and most of the people were white I would have a problem with that.