194 réponses à ce sujet

[MajorStupidity]

Insignificant nerf the CD has always been faster than the animation now as long as you have high CD % you can still spam the ability that has a 20M range, can hit through walls, hits multiple targets, and hits harder than a kroguard on steroids.

[DnVill]

BS cooldown now might just sync in with a AJ's reave spam.

If the reason why you hated the BS/ES was because you couldn't "line up your shots" maybe you should stop using SRs since everyone knows they're useless. Indra might be the only decent SR out there since its got high fire rate and can be decently used on a infiltrator.

[MuKen]

Micah3sixty wrote...

Oh brother.  Sounds like you only used ES as a cooldown shortcut for TC.  The cooldown for TC isn't that long if you keep your Shadow light, which you should be doing anyways.  The longer you stay cloaked, the longer cloak cooldown gets, so just break cloak early if you don't need it for the remaining time frame (shoot or hit cloak button again).  Easy as that.  No need to ES cooldown short cut.

Your advice isn't self-consistent.  You advocate a light loadout, then say don't stay cloaked long.  If you have a light loadout, you can get to 3.08 seconds, making how long you were in cloak basically irrelevant.  Now you're scaling between 3 seconds for an immediate decloak, to 3.08 seconds for a full duration cloak, whoop-dee-doo.

Furthermore, the lighter your loadout, the better it is to ES-cancel, since ES continues getting faster the lighter you are.  Cloak will never get below 3 seconds regardless of weight. 

If you are in fact running a light loadout, the old ES got you to below 1.5 seconds, around 1.3 with the rank 5 evo.  This was a very noticeable improvement in cloak recovery time.  Furthermore, when out in the field picking off lone enemies, if you used up your bonus power and ran into someone close to you, you could ES-cancel with heavy melee for a quick kill that gets your cloak back up immediately after you finish.  If you SS'ed him and you'd have to wait.  This was an interesting consideration, as you have to be able to evaluate and make decisions about whether the ES-cancel is safe to do in your current situation.

Now, there is no CD difference between ES and SS.  One of the thinking and evaluation aspects of the Shadow has been taken out.  Now you should basically just always SS.  Dumbing down a character is never a good thing.

Modifié par MuKen, 21 août 2012 - 07:48 .

[DnVill]

Striker93175 wrote...

Use a scorpion... fire in between slashes now that you have a second to shoot in between power uses:

haha yes i did this. XD keeps everyone from getting too close. XD

[RequiemPrime]

 Scenario:

Reactor - Wave 10 - Hacking in the central core - Enemy - Geth.

Geth. 

One more time....Geth.

A Shadow, myself as a Slayer, a Demolishor, and Phoenix Adept, spammed the living hell out of everything to kepp ourselves alive.

Pyro's that could flame you from space, Geth Hunters who could kill you even after you disassemble them, and the ever-so resourceful Rocket Troopers, who seem to have a higher ROF with their missles than Markman and Devastator Mode combined. But all of this is actually ok, right?

That would be the only situation were it would be caused for spam.  Otherwise, I personally don't ever use it that sense.  Only to get a group of Poopers off of me.  So this nerfer really doesn't hurt me, or my particular playstyle.  But I can tell you this, I will never do an Unknown/Unknown lobby with either of them ever again.

[Untonic]

So dumb how they nerfed it, thank you freaking nerfers, thanks for hindering 2 awesome classes. I don't spam it, but a very small percentage of players using the Shadow/Slayer spam it.

[Micah3sixty]

MuKen wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...

Oh brother.  Sounds like you only used ES as a cooldown shortcut for TC.  The cooldown for TC isn't that long if you keep your Shadow light, which you should be doing anyways.  The longer you stay cloaked, the longer cloak cooldown gets, so just break cloak early if you don't need it for the remaining time frame (shoot or hit cloak button again).  Easy as that.  No need to ES cooldown short cut.

Your advice isn't self-consistent.  You advocate a light loadout, then say don't stay cloaked long.  If you have a light loadout, you can get to 3.08 seconds, making how long you were in cloak basically irrelevant.  Now you're scaling between 3 seconds for an immediate decloak, to 3.08 seconds for a full duration cloak, whoop-dee-doo.

Furthermore, the lighter your loadout, the better it is to ES-cancel, since ES continues getting faster the lighter you are.  Cloak will never get below 3 seconds regardless of weight. 

If you are in fact running a light loadout, the old ES got you to below 1.5 seconds, around 1.3 with the rank 5 evo.  This was a very noticeable improvement in cloak recovery time.  Furthermore, when out in the field picking off lone enemies, if you ran into someone close to you, you could ES-cancel with heavy melee for a quick kill that gets your cloak back up immediately after you finish.  SS him and you have to wait.  This was an interesting consideration, as you have to be able to evaluate and make decisions about whether the ES-cancel is safe to do in your current situation.

Now, there is no CD difference between ES and SS.  One of the thinking and evaluation aspects of the Shadow has been taken out.  Now you should basically just always SS.  Dumbing down a character is never a good thing.

I already did that anyways, for that is the way of the Shadow .  Over using ES is what I considered dumbing down the Shadow.  Since you didn't even use ES for ES itself, your complaint seems quite moot.  If you break cloak by hitting the cloak button (not shooting or using a power), I'm pretty sure your recharge is less than 3 seconds btw.  Regardless, the sooner you break cloak by any means, the sooner it recharges and powers used again.

[MuKen]

Micah3sixty wrote...
Over using ES is what I considered dumbing down the Shadow.  Since you didn't even use ES for ES itself, your complaint seems quite moot.

Overusing?  Before, you had to make a tactical evaluation of whether you should break cloak with ES or SS, which involved battlefield analysis.  Now one option is pointless.  I think it's clear which Shadow requires less intelligence to play.

If you break cloak by hitting the cloak button (not shooting or using a power), I'm pretty sure your recharge is less than 3 seconds btw.

No it is not.  Look it up or test it yourself, unless you cancel it with something it is never less than 3 seconds.

Regardless, the sooner you break cloak by any means, the sooner it recharges and powers used again.

If you are running 200% CD, which most shadows are, then how long you are in cloak makes near to zero difference.

[VelvetStraitjacket]

Now I'm going to use Electric Slash even more and close to other players. Enjoy ****es.

[Micah3sixty]

Regardless, the nerf doesn't change how I play Shadow in the least, and her TC/SS cooldowns have never been a hindrance without ES shortcuts in me topping the score board and carrying waves in PuGs. The minimal time difference you're talking about may amount to 5000 kill points max to your end total.

Modifié par Micah3sixty, 21 août 2012 - 08:05 .

[MuKen]

Micah3sixty wrote...

Regardless, the nerf doesn't change how I play Shadow in the least, and her TC/SS cooldowns have never been a hindrance without ES shortcuts in me topping the score board and carrying waves in PuGs. The minimal time difference you're talking about may amount to 5000 kill points max to your end total.

Irrelevant, I was not saying that the Shadow is too weak now.  She is still a powerful character.  I am annoyed that playing her optimally has gotten simpler.  I.e. that a complex character has gotten dumber to play, and hence less fun.

In fact, the change I suggested as an alternative probably nerfs her harder for the styles that people wanted nerfed.  But it preserves her complexity as a character.

Modifié par MuKen, 21 août 2012 - 08:10 .

[Immortal Strife]

You mean I can't use a Harrier blade attachment on the Shadow any more

In all honestly I can count the number of good shadow users I've seen on one hand and that includes myself. The slashes nerf and the smash nerf manifested from farmers and only limits their true purpose on standard U/U games.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 21 août 2012 - 08:22 .

[Micah3sixty]

MuKen wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...

Regardless, the nerf doesn't change how I play Shadow in the least, and her TC/SS cooldowns have never been a hindrance without ES shortcuts in me topping the score board and carrying waves in PuGs. The minimal time difference you're talking about may amount to 5000 kill points max to your end total.

Irrelevant, I was not saying that the Shadow is too weak now.  She is still a powerful character.  I am annoyed that playing her optimally has gotten simpler.  I.e. that a complex character has gotten dumber to play, and hence less fun.

In fact, the change I suggested as an alternative probably nerfs her harder for the styles that people wanted nerfed.  But it preserves her complexity as a character.

Having never used ES as a shortcut cooldown, it seems perhaps artificial complexity being at stake.  I'll keep my simplistic TC > SS > SS > Cooldown Shadow thank you.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

robgfaulkner wrote...

Yosuke wrote...

Yes, I don't know why people think that they need to hide behind walls... both the shadow and slayer are nigh invincible.

Krogan Sarcasm!!  Love it.

He was serious. I think. The Shadow and the Slayer are hard to kill classes. Even if you don't spam slashes from behind the walls.

You can spec the Shadow Strike to refill your shields.

As for the Slayer, you can refill shields by charging, and you have the light melee damage reduction. The damage reduction is so high that you can literally stand in front of a Prime and melee it, then charge, etc... to death. Like a Kroguard. And that's on Gold/Plat.

Modifié par Jay_Hoxtatron, 21 août 2012 - 08:29 .

[MuKen]

Micah3sixty wrote...


Having never used ES as a shortcut cooldown, it seems perhaps artificial complexity being at stake.  I'll keep my simplistic TC > SS > SS > Cooldown Shadow thank you.

Semantics, complexity is complexity.  ES was the kind of complexity that requires thought (the good kind of complexity) and now it is lost.

Btw, you can still improve that chain by changing the second SS to a CD cancel (i.e. shoot your gun or press Y between them).  SS will always CD faster than cloak.

Modifié par MuKen, 21 août 2012 - 08:31 .

[Micah3sixty]

MuKen wrote...

Micah3sixty wrote...


Having never used ES as a shortcut cooldown, it seems perhaps artificial complexity being at stake.  I'll keep my simplistic TC > SS > SS > Cooldown Shadow thank you.

Semantics, complexity is complexity.  ES was the kind of complexity that requires thought (the good kind of complexity) and now it is lost.

Btw, you can still improve that chain by changing the second SS to a CD cancel (i.e. shoot your gun or press Y between them).  SS will always CD faster than cloak.

Why would I do that when both S-strikes already get cloak bonus damage since I took "Bonus Power" evo on rank 6?  That would just extend how long it takes to use two cloaked SS.

Modifié par Micah3sixty, 21 août 2012 - 08:46 .

[MuKen]

Micah3sixty wrote...

MuKen wrote...

Btw, you can still improve that chain by changing the second SS to a CD cancel (i.e. shoot your gun or press Y between them).  SS will always CD faster than cloak.

Why would I do that when both S-strikes already get cloak bonus damage since I took "Bonus Power" evo on rank 6?  That would just extend how long it takes to use two cloaked SS.

They will still both get cloak bonus, the bonus lasts 2+ seconds after you cancel the cloak which is enough to cover the second SS if you use this technique.  And it doesn't extend how long it takes, it reduces it.  Pressing Y in between doesn't take any time, you can roll it right into hitting the SS.

Right now, on the second SS, you are getting the cloak CD which is longer.  On top of that, the CD starts AFTER you do the SS (there's a built-in 1 sec delay).  If you use the CD cancel method, the CD starts much sooner, and it is a faster SS CD instead of a cloak CD.  In total you'd be shaving off 1-2 seconds from your cycle, which is quite significant in practice.

Your damage output and SS timing will be exactly the same, but you will recover faster.  At least give it a try so you can see what I'm talking about and compare for yourself.

Modifié par MuKen, 21 août 2012 - 08:55 .

[FlowCytometry]

Typical of BW to nerf a power due to farming behavior- enough to make the game harder for everyone but not prevent its spammed use in farming matches anyways.. rather than address the atrocious screen shake effects at all. They had the sense to not include friendly fire. Okay, but then why include an atrocious non-hostile screen shake that's just as bad (or worse) as when it comes from hostile fire?

[Micah3sixty]

MuKen wrote...
They will still both get cloak bonus, the bonus lasts 2+ seconds after you cancel the cloak which is enough to cover the second SS if you use this technique.  And it doesn't extend how long it takes, it reduces it.  Pressing Y in between doesn't take any time, you can roll it right into hitting the SS.

Right now, on the second SS, you are not only getting the cloak CD which is longer, that CD starts AFTER you do the SS (there's a built-in 1 sec delay).  If you use the CD cancel method, the CD starts much sooner, and it is a faster SS CD instead of a cloak CD.  You're shaving off 1-2 seconds from your cycle, which is quite significant in practice.

Your damage output and SS timing will be exactly the same, but you will recover faster.  At least give it a try so you can see what I'm talking about and compare for yourself.

I may just have to give that a try.  So long as I can master it to the point of not dying and not wasting the cloak bonus, I can see the increase to DPS being worth it.

[Annapurna]

They're great powers to use, it was just really unnecessary that they could be used that rapidly.

Including the weapon boosts (to guns that badly needed them) and the alterations to charge, I'd say this is one of Bioware's better fixes.

I'm certainly pleased.

[BlessedSoldier]

Anyone else for GREATEST WEEKLY BALANCE EVER?

Modifié par BlessedSoldier, 21 août 2012 - 08:59 .

[Biotic_Warlock]

CaoSlayer wrote...

Still is going to be spammed as hell.

Now just is going to be one second longer between shakes.

And any infiltrators who complain are doing it wrong.
If you can't shoot between shakes then you need to improve your timings.

[Gamemako]

luciox wrote...

ES just got it dps about 1/3 down. This means ES is kind of useless.

Wrong. The animation is about 1.5s. Previously, the total cycle was about 3.04 seconds. It is now around 3.96 seconds. That is a ~23% decrease in DPS -- less than 1/4.

I honestly don't care either way. Biotic Slash Slayers were only ever useful for farming, and I don't care what hurts farmers. **** 'em, I say. Once you move beyond that, it hardly touches Slayers. Same thing with Shadows. They can already hide the cooldown anyway, and it just cuts their ability to overwrite the TC cooldown in a funky and unintended way.

[luciox]

First of all, I hate ES/BS nerf. I think I did not make it clear in OP and Now I am official announcing:" I HATE ES/BS NERF."
Second, when you choose bonus power in TC and double SS, the damage bonus from TC DOES NOT apply to the second SS.
The difference between 2 SS is very clear if you play sliver and SS 2 pyro all with full shield/armor. First SS will kill and second will left one or two armor bar, DOT will end it.

[Micah3sixty]

luciox wrote...

First of all, I hate ES/BS nerf. I think I did not make it clear in OP and Now I am official announcing:" I HATE ES/BS NERF."
Second, when you choose bonus power in TC and double SS, the damage bonus from TC DOES NOT apply to the second SS.
The difference between 2 SS is very clear if you play sliver and SS 2 pyro all with full shield/armor. First SS will kill and second will left one or two armor bar, DOT will end it.

That's not been my experience on Gold vs two full health/shields phantoms.  I'll pay more attention though and verify, not that it would change how I play.