194 réponses à ce sujet

[hypnotizedmind]

N7 Shadow didn't really need ES in the first place.

As for the N7 Slayer, I never seen anyone use BC before.
Majority of Slayer players are screwed.

Farmers just shot themselves in the foot.

[luciox]

It is not about whether the power is needed.
It is about the nerfers.
Like I stated in OP, I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO SEE THE NEXT VICTIUM

[Dream-Maker]

I think they just wanted to put the cooldown on par with smash. If they really thought these abilities were overpowered they would have nerfed them further.

That said I play the Slayer a lot with a 6/6/6/5/3 200% cooldown build and this nerf is not going to change my playstyle. 1 more sec of cooldown is nothing and Biotic Slash is still a great move, situational but great when used properly.

[luciox]

Here is the logic.
Weapon A is OP as everyone is using it in FWB farming. Therefore, nerf weapon A.
Weapon B is OP as everyone is using it in FWB farming after weapon A got nerfed. Therefore, nerf weapon B.
The cycle continues....till all the weapons are the same which I consider as 1 damage.

Modifié par luciox, 22 août 2012 - 01:07 .

[luciox]

If Dfs you still have no idea about how this logic works, please let me know and I will explain to you step by step.

[CHett Stedman]

image link fail.

Modifié par CHett Stedman, 22 août 2012 - 01:12 .

[aarnold1]

hypnotizedmind wrote...

N7 Shadow didn't really need ES in the first place.

As for the N7 Slayer, I never seen anyone use BC before.
Majority of Slayer players are screwed.

Farmers just shot themselves in the foot.

Like other Vanguards, they are reduced to "Must Host" status, which means having more than one vanguard in a match has a high chance of someone getting screwed.  Oh well, I feel no pity.  I think most every character and weapon has gotten some negative treatment.  Vanguards think they got some love but give it a week, someone will complain how overpowered they are and then they'll get nerfed.  Shotguns, Harriers, GI, and what not are probably not too far down the road.

Farmers just need a mode of play that they can isolate themselves into.  If we didn't keep getting thrown mid-match into a farm game, farmers would never be noticed and they can live in peace.  With such defined modes (Farm, RPG, Casual), Bioware could alter many of the mechanics without having a universal beatstick that punishes the innocent along with the guilty.

[Gamemako]

luciox wrote...

Here is the logic.
Weapon A is OP as everyone is using it in FWB farming. Therefore, nerf weapon A.
Weapon B is OP as everyone is using it in FWB farming after weapon A got nerfed. Therefore, nerf weapon B.
The cycle continues....till all the weapons are the same which I consider as 1 damage.

Dear luciox:

Please check your assumptions. They are not valid... uh, ever.

Thanks,

-Gamemako

[CHett Stedman]

as for the ES/BS powers, using the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over gets a bit frustrating to everyone else in the game.

[luciox]

Gamemako wrote...

luciox wrote...

Here is the logic.
Weapon A is OP as everyone is using it in FWB farming. Therefore, nerf weapon A.
Weapon B is OP as everyone is using it in FWB farming after weapon A got nerfed. Therefore, nerf weapon B.
The cycle continues....till all the weapons are the same which I consider as 1 damage.

Dear luciox:

Please check your assumptions. They are not valid... uh, ever.

Thanks,

-Gamemako

Assumption 1: There will always be farmers.
Assumption 2: There will always be one weapon/power stand out.
Assumption 3: The farmers always use the best cost/effectice way to farm.
Conclution 1: The farmers will always use the stand out weapon/power to farmer for best cost/effectice.

Assumption 4: To reduce farming, the standout weapon/power need to be nerfed.
Conclution 2: The nerf will continue till no weapon/power standout.
Conclution 3: All weapons/powers will be the same.

Please cheak.
tks
Lucio

[Shadohz]

Caephire wrote...

Hmm, that can easily rectified with a Level 3 Power Efficiency Module though. I doubt a lot of people will care about the increased cooldown. In a short amount of time people will adapt to it. I'm pretty sure tonight people will be spamming it more in order to gauge how the new cooldown affects their fighting strategy.

Heh. Do you mean ES/cover/ES/cover?! That's a tactic they should've been using in the first place besides spamming and hoping someone breaks cover to resurrect them.

[aarnold1]

CHett Stedman wrote...

as for the ES/BS powers, using the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over gets a bit frustrating to everyone else in the game.

Look, if we designed the rules and "fun" in this game based upon what frustrates us about each other, do you really think we'd have a game to play anymore?  Where does it end?

[Decc2k25]

People need to stop whining about wanting things Nerfed anyways, its a COOPERATIVE GAME!!! there really isnt any competition at all so why complain, just leave crap Vanilla and fix the glitches only like seriously tired of people whinning. Get a group of friends like I have and then you dont have to worry about randoms spamming anything. For all the people wanting Nerfs Get a life serioursly pathetic.

[Commander Coriander Salamander]

 I called that the N7 Shadow would get nerfed before I unlocked one. Now I just need to find the post.

Actually I'm kind of glad about this nerf. When it was first announced I was excited about all the cool stuff you could do with the Shadow and eventually was dissapointed to find that "Use Electrical Slash over and over and over..." was the best strategy. Hopefully this makes for some more interesting builds. 

[Dream-Maker]

Commander Coriander Salamander wrote...

Actually I'm kind of glad about this nerf. When it was first announced I was excited about all the cool stuff you could do with the Shadow and eventually was dissapointed to find that "Use Electrical Slash over and over and over..." was the best strategy. Hopefully this makes for some more interesting builds. 

Actually it never was the best strategy. Except if you're only playing farming games.

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 22 août 2012 - 01:44 .

[r3apz515]

LOL NERFING ES/BS? ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL.

aren't weapons ENOUGH nerfing...

this is becoming literally stupid. oh wait, EA is tied with this, and like DICE, BioWare is following the whining audience that can't handle a CO-OP game...is not even against each other.

do you really care about being on top of the list at the end of the game?

your realize even if its just for fun, you still will use the credits eaned, or even more often carried by someone who just gravy over @ gold or platinum?

wow Bioware, you listen to the nerfin cries. Leave it as it is. I mean, don't the people who develop such characters, powers, and weapons test it to see if its balanced enough?

some of us take our time in MP to EARN the characters, powers and weapons...why? Because they are supposed to be decent and powerful, but noooooo, the rallying cry of Avenger 8 noobs flood your e-mail and forums about how they are in the bottom at the end of wave 10/11, but aren't nice enough to send a message of courtesy "ty for carrying me i need them creds so i can get the character/wep so i can do the same"...

what a shame....whats next? destroyer nerf moar? I have a cool one, double the barriers of the Banshees, how about that...or even worse....make the salarian decoy weaker and only work on certain enemies. -.-' BW logic is going down even worse than DICE....both united with EA....this was foreshadow so long ago, but I thought BW had the quads not to follow the path of nerf shame.

there is nothing wrong with farming, some of us is in the quest of leveling everything to X, after that we can go and geth SMG all the platinum we want without worrying about "creds".

Modifié par r3apz515, 22 août 2012 - 01:52 .

[aarnold1]

Dream-Maker wrote...

Commander Coriander Salamander wrote...

Actually I'm kind of glad about this nerf. When it was first announced I was excited about all the cool stuff you could do with the Shadow and eventually was dissapointed to find that "Use Electrical Slash over and over and over..." was the best strategy. Hopefully this makes for some more interesting builds. 

Actually it never was the best strategy. Except if you're only playing farming games.

Specing full Slash hurts other areas, but where Slash becomes very useful is on hack objectives and wave 11.  Shadows doing Shadow Strike during those episodes are not that helpful since they'll likely die.  Slash becomes very helpful even with all the screen bumps.  Shadows using guns... well, that's one way to make a Krogan laugh to death.  Shadows can still help during hack and wave 11, but less than other classes now.  Same would go with the Slayer who is probably even worse off if he doesn't have the hand cannon.  What idiot uses Charge during a hack or wave 11?  It's the ones who lay dead asking for a revive, but you just ignore them because you are already busy in the firefight holding position.

[luciox]

aarnold1 wrote...

Dream-Maker wrote...

Commander Coriander Salamander wrote...

Actually I'm kind of glad about this nerf. When it was first announced I was excited about all the cool stuff you could do with the Shadow and eventually was dissapointed to find that "Use Electrical Slash over and over and over..." was the best strategy. Hopefully this makes for some more interesting builds. 

Actually it never was the best strategy. Except if you're only playing farming games.

Specing full Slash hurts other areas, but where Slash becomes very useful is on hack objectives and wave 11.  Shadows doing Shadow Strike during those episodes are not that helpful since they'll likely die.  Slash becomes very helpful even with all the screen bumps.  Shadows using guns... well, that's one way to make a Krogan laugh to death.  Shadows can still help during hack and wave 11, but less than other classes now.  Same would go with the Slayer who is probably even worse off if he doesn't have the hand cannon.  What idiot uses Charge during a hack or wave 11?  It's the ones who lay dead asking for a revive, but you just ignore them because you are already busy in the firefight holding position.

Not only hacking. deliver, if shadow end up carry the object, ES is the only power shadow can use. Escort, pretty much spam ES otherwise, SS is no useful. 

Modifié par luciox, 22 août 2012 - 02:15 .

[JaimasOfRaxis]

I fear that one day, one of the local ruffians will get DNC Protoman. And he will then be tarred and feathered.

[Yajuu Omoi]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

luciox wrote...

This means ES is kind of useless.

False. 

Means its less cheap.
Still just as powerful, and you have to actually plan on using something ELSE for half a second...

Pinky - "OMG WAT R WE GONN DO?!?!?!"
Brain - "Shut UP!"

[Dream-Maker]

aarnold1 wrote...

Specing full Slash hurts other areas, but where Slash becomes very useful is on hack objectives and wave 11.  Shadows doing Shadow Strike during those episodes are not that helpful since they'll likely die.  Slash becomes very helpful even with all the screen bumps.  Shadows using guns... well, that's one way to make a Krogan laugh to death.  Shadows can still help during hack and wave 11, but less than other classes now.  Same would go with the Slayer who is probably even worse off if he doesn't have the hand cannon.  What idiot uses Charge during a hack or wave 11?  It's the ones who lay dead asking for a revive, but you just ignore them because you are already busy in the firefight holding position.

I never said it's not useful, I actually play my slayer with 6 in biotic slash and use it quite a lot, but slash spamming has never been the best way to play these chars ever unless you're playing farming setups that's a fact.

And also having slayers or shadows doing the pizza delivery objective is probably not the smartest idea. Naturaly fast and tough characters like the batarians for example are best suited for this. Not characters that can't use most of their skills when carrying the pizza.

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 22 août 2012 - 02:29 .

[OMDB]

Decc2k25 wrote...

People need to stop whining about wanting things Nerfed anyways, its a COOPERATIVE GAME!!! there really isnt any competition at all so why complain, just leave crap Vanilla and fix the glitches only like seriously tired of people whinning. Get a group of friends like I have and then you dont have to worry about randoms spamming anything. For all the people wanting Nerfs Get a life serioursly pathetic.

^^Agreed^^

[Danadenassis]

CHett Stedman wrote...

as for the ES/BS powers, using the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over gets a bit frustrating to everyone else in the game.

Blame the designers for this. They did not need to add the disruptive parts to the powers they make for us.

I DO understand that those two abilities could be used well for farming. But...so could so many other things and that hasn't really changed, just the timing and the feeling of it.

The shadow was for some time my favourite character, the character I played to completely immerse myself into the game rather than "just farming for kills". Might sound unusual, but I was entertaining. I must admit that I played it because I'm stubborn and liked the idea more than the actual results; the slayer is in my opinion much more convenient and powerful (sure, that also got nerfed, but also boosted unlike the shadow).

Now, something I understood early was that shadow strike wasn't for me. It is slow, it is dangerous and it often is a waste of time. True, it is powerful, but it also lacks the shield/barrier recharge that the biotic charge got (the one that got pretty good boost the last patch).

To play isn't just about "winning" the game. It is about psychology. For instance can you win, but you might not want to play it even so. You could cheat, but it might not make you play it more because of that. So it isn't just about ranking, scores, "ease" or having advantages nobody else got.

Timing, flow, rhythm, different words for the same aspects of playing that also matters. As someone that liked ES does it now feel annoying. I also tested it and I do just as well just ignoring the thing to kill things with pirahna (that not even ultra rare weapon that STILL outclasses most ultra rares...not that I am suggesting something drastic there, but you probably see my point when that weapon outclasses my ES). Yes, farming makes the use of ES/BS more powerful.

Even with gear does the new cooldown feel slow and boring (from being the class I enjoyed most for speed and constant action).

I understand that things has been made more uniform with slam, but for me did this (for now) make it and annoying class and build to play.

Perhaps that is the purpose? To annoy players? Then it is crappy philosophy from the designers; backward if it is the purpose to make players happy.



PS I am not completely anti nerfing, but as most major game developers of multiplayer games (and psychologically aware people) has experienced should it be something that is done very carefully and sparingly.

aarnold1 wrote...
Look, if we designed the rules and "fun" in this game based upon what frustrates us about each other, do you really think we'd have a game to play anymore? Where does it end?

Exactly.

Modifié par Danadenassis, 22 août 2012 - 02:48 .

[Danadenassis]

aarnold1 wrote...

mahlerbone wrote...

I don't understand why everyone is ****ing about this. If you are tired of people spamming ES/BS then leave the game! Play with new people! My god. You're ruining it for the rest of us. I like to win matches and if spamming biotic slash keeps the rest of my team alive or helps the person recovering the object/uploading stuff safe from the baddies then you better believe I'll keep using biotic slash. Why don't you just nerf bullets next? I feel like all the complainers need to get out of elementary school and stop tattling to bioware just because they don't like something.

What are you going to start ****ing about next? Is the Fury too powerful because they keep stealing your kills?

Now that you mention it, they could reduce weapon damage and accuracy by 50% unless behind cover to punish heavy weapon users.

They could give all enemies the ability to grab over cover (that would be sweet) to punish farmers and squatters.

They could remove all invulnerability modes from special animations.

Lots of possibilities.  I wonder who would stay and who would leave.

You wrote my own thoughts on this.