22 réponses à ce sujet

[Branclem]

I'm curious to see if anyone else was disappointed with the level of character development later in the game.  Aside from a few key figures (Allistair, Morrigan for example) that play important roles, the rest of your characters seem to fade into obscurity around the landsmeet, or even before that.

Overall, it felt like in the beginning that there was a lot of focus on the stories of your companions, etc. with plenty of dialogue options in camp.  There were some more after reaching a high enough approval and doing their quests, but once that happened it was pretty much over.  I expected more dialogue with my companions to open up as I got further in the main quest, but that never happened.

Something that bothered me in particular was the conclusion of the romance (Leliana in my case).  After getting the sex scene and the achievement, that was... pretty much it.  I had completed that by about the second main story quest, and nothing else really ever happened with her.

It seems like a romanced character for sure would have additional cutscenes and dialogue throughout the story, but it ended up pretty much being a dead end.  There was barely even any mention of the relationship until the ending, and that was just a few brief sentences in conversation with her.

So yeah - excellent game overall, but I found the shift from character development to just combat and the main plot to be troubling later in the story.

[krsboss]

Yeah, I found it mildly disappointing that basically once you have negociated yourself through the conversation tree and followed all options; as this can be done very rapidly with correct gift application, that there was nothing much else to say to them!



However, I guess there is really only so much conversation that you can write for a character, though it would have been nice to have a little more post-romance options!

[sagefic]

agreed. post tent scene romance did not match up to the pre tent stuff. in the case of alistair and morrigan, it feels like it can only go downhill (well, in morrigan's case it does) and so i found it felt like your char just got used. (thanks for the tent! oh, we can't have babies. huh, maybe i will have to break up with you for the sake of the kingdom). i would have loved alistair except for the way everything falls apart afterwards.

[Boeresmurf]

well every character has some extra scripting and dialog if u pick him to right places, its kinda overdone to write even more dialog and character story as they have now....



but i really liek the development of sten.... everywhere u go and stay to long in his opinion he comments u about it.. and when u even go chase the remnants of a long dead prophet.. he even challence u for the party lead



i do admit that post romance is pretty hollow.. but instead we get personal quests..... personal gifts with cut scenes etc.

[Nathair Nimheil]

its kinda overdone to write even more dialog and character story as they have now....

I disagree. In fact, I think the entire point of this thread is to disagree with that sentiment.

[Jahay]

Agreed. I would have also liked to have some more dialogue near the end at Fort Drakon with your partners talking about the battle with the archdemon (even though they talk to you at the gates).



But it is a disappointment about the lack of dialogue during the romance storylines.

[Dragon Age1103]

I agree as well but they still did a very good job with everything up to the landsmeet!!

[rayvioletta]

it's kind of the opposite problem to the relationships in Mass Effect. in ME the character stories advance veeeerrrrrry slowly, with a few new dialogue options opening up as you get further into the main questline, and eventually a shag at the very end. in DA they disconnected the relationships from the storyline and allow you to pursue them at your own pace, which inevitably means a lot of players finish the romance storylines before getting very far in the main questline

let's hope next time around they can find a compromise between the two

[ejoslin]

I love going to the alienage with either a romanced Alistair or Zevran (or, in my case, a dumped Alistair and romanced Zevran) in my city elf party. They both have interesting reactions to hearing about your wedding. Morrigan has a great reaction to your common dwarf in Orzammar when she meets your mom. I'm sure there are others. But I'm not sure how much more there is to say for everyone else once you get them to 100 friendly.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 décembre 2009 - 02:49 .

[Imryll]

I realize that the PC needed to accept/decline Morrigan's offer, but once that was taken care of, a final conversation and/or cutscence with your romantic partner, if any, in your room at Redcliffe would have added a lot. My mage would really have liked an opportunity for a private good-bye with Zev. Actually, she would have liked a chance to talk to him after talking to Morrigan and before talking to Alistair. Indeed, she made a trip back downstairs to see if he had any insight to offer, but he had nothing to say to her.



Certainly, I would have eagerly traded the cutscene of Morrigan and Alistair for a bit of tenderness with Zev, and I think I'd be even eagerer for a bit of private time with Alistair after his visit to Morrigan if I'd been romancing him. In Alistair's case, probably not sexual time, but a chance to comfort each other.

[ejoslin]

Imryll wrote...

I realize that the PC needed to accept/decline Morrigan's offer, but once that was taken care of, a final conversation and/or cutscence with your romantic partner, if any, in your room at Redcliffe would have added a lot. My mage would really have liked an opportunity for a private good-bye with Zev. Actually, she would have liked a chance to talk to him after talking to Morrigan and before talking to Alistair. Indeed, she made a trip back downstairs to see if he had any insight to offer, but he had nothing to say to her.

Certainly, I would have eagerly traded the cutscene of Morrigan and Alistair for a bit of tenderness with Zev, and I think I'd be even eagerer for a bit of private time with Alistair after his visit to Morrigan if I'd been romancing him. In Alistair's case, probably not sexual time, but a chance to comfort each other.

This I agree with.  Though you know what Zevran would have said already.  He wouldn't care about a demon baby.  But a last night with him would have been a good option too while Morrigan and Alistair did their deed.  

[Imryll]

I guess I'm less certain than you are about Zev's response. You may be right, but I'd rather hear it from him.



Actually, I'd happily pay for DLC that fleshed out that final night in Redcliffe. After the months on the road together, I would really have liked a conversation with each of my party members once my path was clear.

[TheMadCat]

Indeed, there was a bit to much separation between the character development and romance sides and the actual storyline which had the nasty side effect of characters having nothing to say half the game even if you took a conservative approach to the dialogue and the result was characters kind of fading away into oblivion aside from the two major ones in which the story revolves, Morrigan and Alistair. I do believe, maybe a minority here, that major revelations and events for side characters should be tied much closer to the actual story.



As for the post-sex romance dialogue being subpar. I've only done it with Leliana and yes, I'd agree with that statement. It does seem to tail off fast for someone your character supposedly loves and it's real bad towards the end of the game. If you get captured in Fort Drakon to the landsmeet to Morrigan's offer to the final battle there were only two sentences shared despite four massive events in the story. Talking to Zev or Leliana about Morrigan's offer I would have thought would have yielded some rather interesting dialouge and perhaps revealed quite a bit about your companion, your relationship, and their views of duty vs. personal desires. The other area was on top of the tower, there is so little said after the Archdemon falls it's actually a bit disturbing, especially if you decided to pass on the ritual and sacrifice yourself. You'd figure you'd at least give your lover a passing glance or something but no, a few words with Alistair to figure out who puts the sword in the dragons head. Rather disheartening.



A shame as those were two areas late in game that could have done a huge amount towards character development and closure if you chose to sacrifice yourself, especially with the character you chose to romance. I'm not sure why they decided not to pursue them at all aside from the main two, really dropped the ball.

[ejoslin]

Imryll wrote...

I guess I'm less certain than you are about Zev's response. You may be right, but I'd rather hear it from him.

Actually, I'd happily pay for DLC that fleshed out that final night in Redcliffe. After the months on the road together, I would really have liked a conversation with each of my party members once my path was clear.

There's one with Wynne, but it doesn't trigger every time, or I'm not sure where it does trigger and you can miss it where she talks about how everything is coming to a head.  There's also one with Zev, again, I'm not sure what triggers it and I have only seen it once where he talks about how either the Gray Warden will die or the Gray Warden's companion will according to the legends.  There may be others as well.  They're after the landsmeet but before Radcliff castle, but seeing as I've only seen those once, I can't really give more information about them (anyone with a guidebook care to help out?).

And yes, I am fairly certain about Zev's advice. Alistair and Morrigan have a baby together or there's a good chance the PC dies?  Zev is nothing if not practical!

Edit: I'm positive the Wynne conversation can take place, I've seen it twice, but the Zev one maybe not -- I would have seen it only in my first play through and haven't seen it again so it's possible I'm not remembering correctly seeing as I've played this game entirely WAY too much.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 décembre 2009 - 03:26 .

[Branclem]

Nathair Nimheil wrote...

its kinda overdone to write even more dialog and character story as they have now....

I disagree. In fact, I think the entire point of this thread is to disagree with that sentiment.

Indeed, that was my intent.  For the first half of the game, they did a really great job making you actually care about the characters and your relationships with them.  After that, the fact that they turned into lifeless husks with the same few dialogue options forever was a shame - especially since the character development for the first half was, in my opinion, better than the combat or the main story.

rayvioletta wrote...

it's kind of the opposite problem to
the relationships in Mass Effect. in ME the character stories advance
veeeerrrrrry slowly, with a few new dialogue options opening up as you
get further into the main questline, and eventually a shag at the very
end. in DA they disconnected the relationships from the storyline and
allow you to pursue them at your own pace, which inevitably means a lot
of players finish the romance storylines before getting very far in the
main questline
let's hope next time around they can find a compromise between the two

I think you're pretty much spot on here.  Having the relationship depend solely on your progress in the story is kind of annoying, but having it fade into nothingness as soon as you've run through the dialogue is not very good either.  What's a nice balance?  Perhaps the base part of building the romance is available at any time, but then during key plot events your partner could offer or request comfort, advice, or just have anything that integrates them more into your story.

Imryll wrote...

I realize that the PC needed to
accept/decline Morrigan's offer, but once that was taken care of, a
final conversation and/or cutscence with your romantic partner, if any,
in your room at Redcliffe would have added a lot. My mage would really
have liked an opportunity for a private good-bye with Zev. Actually,
she would have liked a chance to talk to him after talking to Morrigan
and before talking to Alistair. Indeed, she made a trip back downstairs
to see if he had any insight to offer, but he had nothing to say to her.

Absolutely, this was the time when I was most surprised that nothing happened.  It's your last night before rushing off into battle against the darkspawn and your partner is not featured at all.

[Imryll]

[quote]ejoslin wrote...

[quote]Imryll wrote...

Edit: I'm positive the Wynne conversation can take place, I've seen it twice, but the Zev one maybe not -- I would have seen it only in my first play through and haven't seen it again so it's possible I'm not remembering correctly seeing as I've played this game entirely WAY too much.
[/quote]

Zev and Niamh had a conversation along those lines, but before the Landsmeet. The party decided to spend a night in camp so that Zev and I could chat about earrings and such. Sadly, he never offered the earring a second time, but they did discuss their future. The specific response comes if you say something along the lines of, "The sidekick needn't die either." But the context for that conversation is more general.  At Redcliffe once you've resolved the question of Morrigan's offer, it becomes very specific.

[ejoslin]

Imryll wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: I'm positive the Wynne conversation can take place, I've seen it twice, but the Zev one maybe not -- I would have seen it only in my first play through and haven't seen it again so it's possible I'm not remembering correctly seeing as I've played this game entirely WAY too much.

Zev and Niamh had a conversation along those lines, but before the Landsmeet. The party decided to spend a night in camp so that Zev and I could chat about earrings and such. Sadly, he never offered the earring a second time, but they did discuss their future. The specific response comes if you say something along the lines of, "The sidekick needn't die either." But the context for that conversation is more general.  At Redcliffe once you've resolved the question of Morrigan's offer, it becomes very specific.

Ah, that could explain why I saw it only my first play through.  If you didn't get the earring, he may have dropped down to friendly for you, and it could be a conversation only when friendly.  Only in my first play through was he friendly at that point (the relationship started after Ali dumped my PC -- very fast moving I must say).  It wasn't specific, but I remember being surprised that Zevran was sure someone was going to die and he was willing to be the one to do so.

The one with Wynne, I'm still not sure what triggers it.  She talks about how everything is coming to a head, and how young the PC is.  I know if you don't have the conversation by the time you reach Radcliff for the last time, you don't have it at all.

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 décembre 2009 - 03:49 .

[Imryll]

No, no. We were at "I am yours" for the remainder of the game. I took a 5 point hit for saying that I didn't want the earring unless it meant something, but managed to be sufficiently charming in subsequent conversations that he was back at 100 Love (and willing to return to my tent) before we left camp again. My theory is that I initiated the "You seem different" conversation to soon, closing the window of opportunity for the second offer of the earring to trigger.

I think that in any case Niamh was satisfied with the trade-off, preferring tent time to jewelry. 

Modifié par Imryll, 23 décembre 2009 - 03:58 .

[ejoslin]

Ok, I'm at that point in my current game. I need to play around with the dialog and see what happens.

Edit: Ok, found it.  It has nothing to do with the earring.  If you tell him that you're friends (I always answer more than friends), he'll go into that, when you said for the second time that you're friends.  Then you don't get the earring or the proposal, AND he says the friendship thing is for the birds.  But he does make it clear he knows you or Alistair is going to die, or the sidekick.

Still, I'm not sure what triggers Wynne's conversation.  And sorry about the excessive editing!

But you get the tent time if you get the jewelry as well. And a proposal if you wish. It just takes a few more conversations

Last edit:  I was wrong.  I got the sidekick dying speech, but then got the earring back and the proposal.  I did ask if he was in love. I have no clue why you didn't get that option, but sometimes the romances are bugged.  All I can say about the whole sequence playing it that way is even more 

Modifié par ejoslin, 23 décembre 2009 - 04:34 .

[Creature 1]

Imryll wrote...

I guess I'm less certain than you are about Zev's response. You may be right, but I'd rather hear it from him.

Actually, I'd happily pay for DLC that fleshed out that final night in Redcliffe. After the months on the road together, I would really have liked a conversation with each of my party members once my path was clear.

I would pay for this as well.  It's ridiculous that my party is encountering an enemy that has not been seen for, what, four centuries and no one really has anything to say about it.  It's especially ridiculous if you're romancing Lel or Zev. 

[Branclem]

Creature 1 wrote...

Imryll wrote...

I guess I'm less certain than you are about Zev's response. You may be right, but I'd rather hear it from him.

Actually, I'd happily pay for DLC that fleshed out that final night in Redcliffe. After the months on the road together, I would really have liked a conversation with each of my party members once my path was clear.

I would pay for this as well.  It's ridiculous that my party is encountering an enemy that has not been seen for, what, four centuries and no one really has anything to say about it.  It's especially ridiculous if you're romancing Lel or Zev. 

Agreed.  It feels like there is a hole here where an important and/or defining scene could occur with your romantic partner - and even party members that you're not involved with would surely have some insight, concerns, etc.

[Klystron]

This may sound trivial after the above posts, but I'll bring it up anyway....
Dog was a riot in the early game, then ran out of antics very quickly. 
Shayle seemed similar, a great idea that wasn't followed through on. 

[Greenphrog]

You mean besides the chars who make it clear they just want to have fun, suddenly making you choose between them....



I agree.