85 réponses à ce sujet

[MOTpoetryION]

i just get the whole post was started because someone didn't finish one of the quests is all. well for future play-threw if you go in BEFORE you MEET gram-ma look and see. if you don't have chapter 1 in your codex you can go back out to get it .And still go back in. Also i have a project/mod idea and I'm planning on using the peak in the mod/ storyline(if I'm able to use the DLC for part of the mod) that goes off some of the things that were said about it. And OP now i do agree they are bordering on false advertisement but who don't .Have you ever gotten a hamburger that looked like the ones  in an ad or TV/doubt it . Also to one of the posters he might of got the DLC when the search did not work in the forums.so even if there was 20 like threads floating around well there was no way to do said research. and to all ,this is all IMO and think that should of started your title.  Its all wow's
fault anyway all this pay 2 play and extra paying for stuff after you buy a game .you want to get mad get mad at wow players/game.

Modifié par MOTpoetryION, 24 décembre 2009 - 02:56 .

[andysdead]

heronice1 wrote...

7 times 100,ooo players.
yes, 7 bucks for a cup is a ripoff .. starbucks? lol

I spent not for the content but for the support of dragon age 2!

last i checked, starbucks doesn't even charge 7 bucks for a cup o' joe.

i pay 7 bucks for a half pound of beans lol.

[Sensorie]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Sensory wrote...

Is it worth $7? Debatable, considering how much money is spent on other needless things in life, like cigarettes, alcohol, night clubbing, indulgent snacks.

You sir, just mentioned the four most important things for teenagers and young adults as needless..

Whether they're needless is not debatable, but whether they're worth more than Warden's Keep? A few snacks last a few minutes, do nothing for your health, and get excreted through your other end. Then again, that fleeting gratification of temptation may be worth more to others.

Of course this is an absolute comparison considering price rather than relative to other DLC or games with regards to value for money. If I had a spare $7 to spend, I can choose to spend it on whatever indulgence I wish. Within the context of gaming in general, objectively, Warden's Keep undoubtedly does not offer any value for money when compared to a full game; six downloads each worth $7, and each offering the same amount of content as Warden's Keep, would also not be comparable to a full game, especially a game like Dragon Age.

Personal considerations must be accounted for, because it's your own money that's been spent after all. I may not care one iota for a certain auction item valued at $1000, but others are willing to outbid each other for an item to which they ascribe a high value of worth, starting at $1000. BioWare chose to value Warden's Keep at 560 points. Honestly in the context of the gaming market and a few dollars, the value of DLC will always be a point of contention.

Krigwin wrote...

Man, I love DLC topics. This one's not even 3 pages long and already you've got every single fallacy in it:

"It's worth $7 because I felt it was worth it!"
"$7 isn't a lot of money, so therefore it's not overpriced!"
"If you're not willing to spend $7, you must be poor!"

I look forward to the day when games are 2 hours long and come with 70 packs of DLC already installed on the disk but all cost $5 to unlock, and people are still thinking it's somehow "worth it" and asking for more.

Perhaps you would then care to elaborate on your input to enlighten this apparently fallacious discussion?

[Zavrian]

I love how when people disagree with an opinion, it is therefore automatically a "fallacy".

[Jerret]

Was Soldier's Peak fun?



Yep.



Is DLC overpriced and a total ripoff, as a category in general?



Yep.



Is Bioware following the trend?



Yep.



Will I be a sucker and buy it more?



Yep.

[Krigwin]

Since we're talking about video games, for purposes of comparison we would have to base the "value", in terms of money, on the one thing that is objective about the game: play length. This comparison is even easier to make because we're not comparing two different games, which could potentially lead to all kinds of player choice debate, but rather a full game, and then a DLC pack for that same game, and we even have the estimated play lengths straight from the mouth of Bioware.

If we go by Bioware's conservative estimates of Dragon Age lasting 50 hours and Warden's Keep lasting 1 hour, then Warden's Keep is ridiculously overpriced at $7. Yes, it's cheap compared to a movie or sandwich or whatever else nonsensical comparison you want to make. But it's overpriced compared to the game. People can't seem to get this so I'm going to speak very carefully and use elementary school analogies to get this point across: imagine you can buy a whole pizza with a set of 4 toppings for $8, but each additional topping costs $4. Yes, $4 is not a lot of money, and it doesn't seem overpriced, but compared to the original freaking pizza, it is. If all future DLC follows the trend of Warden's Keep, then for the price of 7 DLC packs, you could just buy another DA:O, which lasts 50 hours, whereas the 7 DLCs would only last a combined 7. See why it's overpriced now? It's not a hard thing to follow if you can do basic math, which apparently many people can't so they think $7 is "worth it" because it's not a very large sum of money.

But of course, bring up 2nd grade math to any DLC discussion, and you get bombarded with trite ad hominem attacks about how you must obviously be a high schooler without even a part time job to have the common sense to know DLC is an unscrupulous business practice. This is just the most fallacious pattern of thought I've ever seen in these topics, and it simply baffles me because if I was really too poor to afford a $7 download, then I would just pirate it, and if I'm pirating it, why would I care about the price to the point of posting on forums about it? This is just blatantly the thinking of a simpleton, and when forum heroes bring out the "lolupoor?" posts like it's some kind of trump card I usually just lose interest and stop reading.

I can debate about the "worth" of DLC all day long, but at the end of the day there's an undeniable fact that remains: DLC is bad for the industry. Support DLC and companies will continue setting the standards lower and lower for microtransations, which lets them develop less content and charge more money and generally be lazy, and that is all bad for the consumers (which you happen to be btw, Bioware fanboys). It's especially insidious in this case because rather than being in an outrage, paying customers who apparently lack any foresight will proceed to go on the forums and demand even more DLC, even when it's shamelessly content that should've been in the original game. If you care about video games at all and don't want to see the day a $50 game launches that's the size of Diablo 1 with tons of quests that can only be purchased from an online store for $2 each, it's simple - you should not support DLC. There are better ways of handling expansive content, and other companies like Valve and Relic are already doing it - hell even Bioware did it right in the past, but since getting taken over by EA I guess that era is over.

[Sarevok Anchev]

@Krigwin



Nice post.



*Thumbs up*

[Sensorie]

Krigwin wrote...

If we go by Bioware's conservative estimates of Dragon Age lasting 50 hours and Warden's Keep lasting 1 hour, then Warden's Keep is ridiculously overpriced at $7. Yes, it's cheap compared to a movie or sandwich or whatever else nonsensical comparison you want to make. But it's overpriced compared to the game.

As I stated earlier: "Of course this is an absolute comparison considering price rather than relative to other DLC or games with regards to value for money. If I had a spare $7 to spend, I can choose to spend it on whatever indulgence I wish. Within the context of gaming in general, objectively, Warden's Keep undoubtedly does not offer any value for money when compared to a full game; six downloads each worth $7, and each offering the same amount of content as Warden's Keep, would also not be comparable to a full game, especially a game like Dragon Age."

Krigwin wrote...

I can debate about the "worth" of DLC all day long, but at the end of the day there's an undeniable fact that remains: DLC is bad for the industry. Support DLC and companies will continue setting the standards lower and lower for microtransations, which lets them develop less content and charge more money and generally be lazy, and that is all bad for the consumers (which you happen to be btw, Bioware fanboys).

There's a reason why DLC came into existence into its current state: the Xbox 360. Before LIVE, the term "DLC" was a not a term with which I was even familiar; PC games mostly had only full expansion packs, and mods were freely downloaded. Unfortunately due to the current gaming market it's not looking to change any time soon.

I enjoy Dragon Age enough to purchase its DLC, and I value its DLC more than I do full games in which I have no interest. Do I like that I have to purchase DLC? Of course not, but unfortunately unless there is an effective orchestrated campaign to boycott DLC, to the extent that gaming companies will actually change their business practices, I'm only depriving myself of enjoyment.

Pinnacle Station for Mass Effect? Now that is something I will not bother to purchase. I would much rather get myself drunk on Strongbow than pay for that piece of garbage. Fortunately Bring Down the Sky was free, as it should have been, at least on the PC, but that was before EA.

Modifié par Sensory, 24 décembre 2009 - 10:25 .

[Duck and Cover]

not really a spoiler, I already know not to download soldiers's peak. Don't get me wrong, I love the game. But short DLC doesn't interest me in the least bit. I want an epic campaign as in an expansion. Not just a few pieces of gear and a skill or two. I guess I'm old school. I prefer expansions over short content. That's the only thing that gives enough time to tell a real story.

[Sabriana]

It was not worth the money. I also think that I was mislead by the advertisement. Levi Dryden kept going on and on about the Wardens reclaiming the keep, how it was a great strategic base, and on and on. In comparison with the original game, 6 Euro is far too much. The way it was hyped, it's not so strange that people expected more, such as using the 'inside' of the keep as a place of operations.



As for the abilities, they're not that great, in my opinion. As for the sword, I can't seem to trigger the superman random encounter, so the sword is a non-entity for me. Storage? I can dl mods for that, and they're free.



It was an impulse buy, something I rarely do, and it got the usual results that impulse buys bring. RtO is something I will take a long and hard look at before buying it. That's my personal opinion, and I reserve the right to have one

[MKATAKM]

heronice1 wrote...
I spent not for the content but for the support of dragon age 2!

Same here. I don't resent for the money that went to game developers. Even when the game was not as good as I expected. Because then I have the right to expect better games afterwards. Besides I am a fellow software developer.

[Original182]

Thanks to the OP for the heads up.

[Burito101]

Necroscope84 wrote...

DMaurio wrote...

!

not even a two hour movie ticket,

Are you serious? It cost $14 for a movie ticket where I live.

[Original182]

Could be one of those Tuesday discounts, that are super cheap.

[Ponce de Leon]

I won't be buying it simply because I hate buying things virtually. I won't buy any future released DLC. If they will by chance put every DLC together and make it available as a box apart in a shop, I'm going to buy it.

Price, in both digital download or simply real life box, is not a problem for me. That's it.

But, knowing my luck, I guess I will never be able to play any other DLC.

[Original182]

If you, the consumer, let Bioware know that you prefer the traditional box method of buying expansions or DLC, I'm sure they will do it.

I remember for Oblivion, they did start selling DLCs on their website. Then when I went to the game shop, I saw a box containing all the DLCs.

[likeorasgod]

One thing I learn about games and what I like about those I can do more than one playthrough. Don't rush through evrery mission/quest cause you might miss something. Take your time in the keep and you will get every thing. Allso by doing this it takes more than 20 mins to finish the mission and you get more play time. Though after 5 play throughs I do rush cause I know where every thing is in certain parts and in others I'm still takeing my time.

[snow0815]

Asschabs!

[Realmzmaster]

The relative worth of DLC will always be open for debate. The bottom line is what it is worth to you. If you feel that $7 is inexpensive and you want to continue playing then buy it. If you feel that the content is too short and not worth the monet do not buy it. The choice is yours.

I bought Warden's Keep and I know exactly what I was getting.

The point is how long are you willing to wait for new content? If you want a big expansion you may wait 6 months to a year. Or you get short playable DLC. You vote with your dollars and your opinion.

[Celuwen]

I thought Wardens Keep was overpriced. Yet I'm still waiting for Return to Ostagar. I feel dirty

[darkshadow136]

Let's see it was overpriced, Miss advertised as a base of operations for the wardens. Too short and so on. Yeah you get some cool abilities, and some ok items Starfang being the best one. But in the end the whole point to that DLC was to reclaim Soldiers peak for the Grey Wardens as a base of operations or /housemod or new camp so to speak. Well it takes 20 minutes to go through it you leave and come back and Dryden is outside in the cold blizzard with his family camped out like a bunch of Gypsies instead of setting up shop inside the keep where it's warm.



Plus you have Averus inside the keep tower if you spared him working on new ways to help the wardens and you cant even talk to the man. All and all bioware really cheaped out on this DLC it could have been so much better then it was.

[Basher of Glory]

I liked it. The cutscenes were great, especially the one right when we enter and Sophia starts her oration. Great voice acting!
At least for my rogues one of the "special powers" is useful (I don't like "powers" which drain health).

However, there are flaws. I can't understand, how a designer could make such descisions:
1) As mentioned before we can't enter again, once we left the building.
2) Obviously broken (or not yet implemented) stuff about that mage, who "will inform me about upcomming research results ASAP".
3) Also mentioned before, it's far away from being a "base". I thought, my companions will stand around in the courtyard, like they do in camp and later in Eamon's Denerim-estate.

Thus, the announcements of the module were at least partially false.

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 25 décembre 2009 - 03:40 .

[darkshadow136]

Baher of Glory wrote...

I liked it. The cutscenes were great, especially the one right when we enter and Sophia starts her oration. Great voice acting!
At least for my rogues one of the "special powers" is useful (I don't like "powers" which drain health).

However, there are flaws. I can't understand, how a designer could make such descisions:
1) As mentioned before we can't enter again, once we left the building.
2) Obviously broken (or not yet implemented) stuff about that mage, who "will inform me about upcomming research results ASAP".
3) Also mentioned before, it's far away from being a "base". I thought, my companions will stand around in the courtyard, like they do in camp and later in Eamon's Denerim-estate.

Thus, the announcements of the module were at least partially false.

Yep it was false advertising. Outside of the cutscenes and voice acting Ive seen better personal base mods in the game Oblivion namely the Wizards Tower.

[Original182]

Well look the mods are obviously reading the forums, so tell them what you would have liked in Warden's Keep like this thread. Then they'll tell the devs what you had in mind when you thought of "base of operations".

Modifié par Original182, 25 décembre 2009 - 05:37 .

[amrose2]

Nothing much to add other than to say it's not worth 7 dollars if you plan on playing the game only once. In my 10 or so playthroughs though I think it's fair to say I've gotten my money's worth.

I think some common problems is in the dialogue/story players get the idea that using the place as a base is supposed to be an immediate change. At least Avernus says it will take years if you let him continue his research. Alot of us were expecting something similar to the Oblivion "house" DLCs, I think.

Modifié par amrose2, 25 décembre 2009 - 09:24 .