38 réponses à ce sujet

[RedCaesar97]

daftPirate wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...
Warp Ammo with Amplified Concussive Shot does not detonate biotic explosions. Proof.

Woah, isn't it supposed to do though? I seem to remember seeing something to that effect in a description somewhere...

Amplification:
Power Concussive Shot with the properties of the active ammo power, enabling it to burn, freeze, disrupt, warp, or pierce armor.

Keep in mind that Warp Ammo will not detonate or set up a biotic explosion on its own. I think it may apply to its damage to barriers, but I have no intention of testing that.

[BlessedSoldier]

chrisnabal wrote...

BlessedSoldier wrote...

Except that the main drawback of Adrenaline rush is actually time dilation itself which overtime makes you a crappy shot. Its a cruch. Also the main downside of the Revenant is not recoil its base accuracy which is horrible.

So time dilation somehow makes you less accurate? I'm not following you on that one. I'm pretty sure the revenant does have high recoil and the stability mod helps it a lot. Regardless of its in game accuracy rating, I can hit enemies pretty well at long range with burst fire from cover. I'm not sure if you're implying this but not by any means is marksman required to keep the revenant on target.

AR is a cruch. The more you use Time Dilation the more you will need time dilation in order to shoot unless you are already a terrible terrible shot. This isnt something strictly applying to gameplay performance as if you just play ME3 with an AR soldier you wont see anything but suddenly switching from using time dilation to not using time dilation you will notice a big drop in your ability to hit targets.

Revenant recoil is not what makes the revenant so inaccurate. Its the base accuracy. I can keep the revenant 's cross hairs dead on a target for the entire clip but that doesnt mean much with the poor accuracy. Marksman negates the Revenant's REAL main drawback and works on its main strength(ROF) thus helping it far more then AR does.

[known_hero]

Abraham_uk wrote...

known_hero wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

So in a nutshell, use marksman for any class other than the Soldier.

Thanks for narrowing it down for me

Well your best bet is Infiltrator or vanguard.

Want marksman + incendiary ammo pick vanguard.
Want marksman + disruptor ammo pick infiltrator.
Want marksman + cryo ammo pick either vanguard or infiltrator.

So the only remaining question are. 
Invisibility or charge?
tech or biotics?

Hmmm.. A Marksman Assault Rifle Vanguard sounds interesting.

[The JoeMan]

Marksman's 70% ROF increase will result in a greater DPS than Adrenaline Rush's 75% damage bonus because of the way damage bonuses add together. Factor in the increased accuracy and headshot bonus from marksman and the Revenant becomes pretty kickass. Plus ever since I started playing MP soldiers I find time dilation annoying.

[Doriath]

BlessedSoldier wrote...

chrisnabal wrote...

BlessedSoldier wrote...

Except that the main drawback of Adrenaline rush is actually time dilation itself which overtime makes you a crappy shot. Its a cruch. Also the main downside of the Revenant is not recoil its base accuracy which is horrible.

So time dilation somehow makes you less accurate? I'm not following you on that one. I'm pretty sure the revenant does have high recoil and the stability mod helps it a lot. Regardless of its in game accuracy rating, I can hit enemies pretty well at long range with burst fire from cover. I'm not sure if you're implying this but not by any means is marksman required to keep the revenant on target.

AR is a cruch. The more you use Time Dilation the more you will need time dilation in order to shoot unless you are already a terrible terrible shot. This isnt something strictly applying to gameplay performance as if you just play ME3 with an AR soldier you wont see anything but suddenly switching from using time dilation to not using time dilation you will notice a big drop in your ability to hit targets.

Revenant recoil is not what makes the revenant so inaccurate. Its the base accuracy. I can keep the revenant 's cross hairs dead on a target for the entire clip but that doesnt mean much with the poor accuracy. Marksman negates the Revenant's REAL main drawback and works on its main strength(ROF) thus helping it far more then AR does.

Never before have I heard someone assert that time dilation ruins one's aim. If that were the case, it would have been an issue in ME2. Yeah sure it helps me easily land bullets, but even using it constantly doesn't make me less accurate under normal conditions. I'm by no means the best shot out there, but I've never had that experience. If all of the sudden now that is the new viewpoint, its definitely lost on me.

As far as the Revenant goes, I understand how marksman works and I know marksman is better for it. If you go back and read my initial response to you, I never said that adrenaline rush helps it more. I said it can still be used effectively with AR, which it absolutely can. Besides that, not everything needs to be assessed within the context of using the Revenant. Whether you use that weapon or not I still don't think its worth taking marksman on a soldier. Two status powers that cannot interact is inefficient. Its also a waste of everything you can do with AR's power use evolution.

Now, someone else mentioned using one for an assault rifle and one for a sniper rifle. Well you can do that...or you can take a power like carnage, reave, stasis, or energy drain and have an offensive power worth using while you're benefiting from AR buffed fire. Seems superior to me.

The original post was geared toward the merits of marksman on the soldier class, not necessarily marksman on a soldier that must use the revenant. In general marksman is a poor choice for the class. If everything your soldier does revolves around the revenant or a weapon like it, then I guess you might find marksman the best option. In that case I would reassess the weapon I'm using, but that's a whole different story. My main point is AR and marksman can't interact and due to that there are far superior choices for the bonus power. To me that is completely inarguable. No one says you can't take it, but that doesn't make it wise.

Modifié par chrisnabal, 23 août 2012 - 04:28 .

[BlessedSoldier]

It was an issue in ME2 and its why I never played the Soldier then. Second the whole thing behind a soldier is Gun play which makes active powers a poor choice. Energy drain you dont need the damage and could easily just spec AR to restore shield, and the other bonus powers dont really give the soldier much unless you like setting off biotic combats and shooting to which I would point you to Kronnor's Biotic Bomber and Walking Armory which does that far better then a soldier.

Really the only powers that I can see meshing with the Soldier are Marksman, proxy, the defense powers, defense drone(Snipers friend) and maybe inferno grenade if you hate frag.

[Doriath]

BlessedSoldier wrote...

It was an issue in ME2 and its why I never played the Soldier then. Second the whole thing behind a soldier is Gun play which makes active powers a poor choice. Energy drain you dont need the damage and could easily just spec AR to restore shield, and the other bonus powers dont really give the soldier much unless you like setting off biotic combats and shooting to which I would point you to Kronnor's Biotic Bomber and Walking Armory which does that far better then a soldier.

Really the only powers that I can see meshing with the Soldier are Marksman, proxy, the defense powers, defense drone(Snipers friend) and maybe inferno grenade if you hate frag.

I really don't understand where you're coming from here. Offensive powers are a bad choice? You'd have a point if you couldn't use them while already in AR. Something like carnage, energy drain or reave are essentially just damage boosters vs whatever your shooting at plus carnage is one of the highest damaging powers when specced for max damage and combos off of all your ammo powers. Stasis bubble can give the soldier crowd control you'd otherwise never come close to.

And by the way, the build your talking about mainly utilizes throw to detonate off of squadmate's powers. In no way shape or form does that type of sentinel equal the weapon damage output of a soldier nor does it have the cooldowns to use any damage dealing offensive power. It also relies on damage reduction which an AR-based soldier doesn't need, due in large part to time dilation.

Modifié par chrisnabal, 23 août 2012 - 07:28 .

[Abraham_uk]

Kronner's Biotic Bomber and Walking Armory is a very, very good build for a sentinel. Highly inventive, and makes great use of squadmates. Most builds talk about being a one man army. Kronner highly values teamwork and gains points for this.

Probably the best build for playing the tank that soaks up all the damage. Definitely insanity viable, and if there was a higher difficulty than insanity it would still be viable. Watch his Spectre Video.

But I felt that it didn't use the sentinel to it's full potential.
Unless you're using all 6 class powers, you're only using the class at a fraction of it's potential.




A decent bonus power either builds on the strengths of your class (Kronner's Sentinel build get's this spot on with an additional defence power) or covers one of the weaknesses.

I don't see how marksman covers the soldier's weaknesses. I don't see how it builds on the soldier's strengths. Warp ammo and armour piercing ammo have the same issue. They don't fulfill the purpose of a bonus power. Bonus means added extra. Those powers don't provide any added extra to the soldier, and are better suited to other classes.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 23 août 2012 - 09:51 .

[Abraham_uk]

Let's take a look at the bonus powers. Caution, this list completly ignores "lore" considerations.

Less Viable Choices

Marksman: Already covered by adrenaline rush. Okay I'll admit it has it's strengths but there are just better powers you can choose from. Soldiers don't need bonus powers, and if you are going to spend points on powers, make them count.
Warp and Armour Piercing Ammo: Already covered by incendiary ammo. There are mods that will deal with light cover such as riot shields. So not really an issue.

Builds on Soldier's Strengths.

Inferno Grenade: If it increases stock of grenades then it build's on one of Soldier's strengths.
Fortification/Barrier/Defence Matrix: Soldier can become even more of a tank.
Defence Drone: The soldier is already more than capable of dealing with enemies up close with it's heavy melee attack and it's decent amount of health and shilds. But add a drone that will zap enemies up close, and that strength is greatly enhanced.


Covers Soldier's Weaknesses

Stasis, Slam, Proximity Mine, Energy Drain: All of these fulfill the crowd control element.
Carnage: Concussive shot is generally deemed to be lacklustre. Carnage does impressive damage, and will make enemies panic. You can also have the freedom of using cryo/disruptor ammo on your amplified concussive shot and the carnage, giving your more options without switching ammo powers.
Reave: The soldier's inability to setup and detonate biotic explosions could be seen as a weakness. If you feel that way, reave covers both weaknesses. But bring a biotic squadmate to either setup or detonate.
Dark Channel: A good debuffing ability. Will do duration damage and if you have Liara or Kaidan, you can spam biotic explosions.
Decoy: The soldier has no means of diverting attention, other than relying on squadmates. Decoy if used strategically will do wonders.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 23 août 2012 - 10:10 .

[AVPen]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Builds on Soldier's Strengths.

Inferno Grenade: If it increases stock of grenades then it build's on one of Soldier's strengths.

Just for future reference, yes taking Inferno Grenade and upgrading it for max grenade capacity does indeed increase the Soldier's grenade capacity from 6 to 9.

[Abraham_uk]

AVPen wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

Builds on Soldier's Strengths.

Inferno Grenade: If it increases stock of grenades then it build's on one of Soldier's strengths.

Just for future reference, yes taking Inferno Grenade and upgrading it for max grenade capacity does indeed increase the Soldier's grenade capacity from 6 to 9.

My bonus power for a soldier sorted then.

[DJ CAVE SLAVE]

I don't see bonus powers as particularly useful on a soldier since I'm more reliant on weapons than powers. That's why I usually just go with Defense Matrix for added damage protection.

[godlike13]

My preferred Bonus power for my Soldier is Energy Drain, covers shields and love that Shield recharge, but if we're sticking to just combat powers then i like the sound of Inferno grenades. Spec them for Armor, spec Frag for Shields. Then u got pretty much all defenses covered.

Modifié par godlike13, 24 août 2012 - 06:25 .

[capn233]

First things first. Proximity Mine is a Combat power, not a Tech power.

Now as for Marksman, I do not like it on Soldier. It does indeed overlap with Adrenaline Rush, without providing many of the secondary benefits. You can fire the Revenant effectively under ARush and be more effective overall with a better power than by taking Marksman. The number of permutation of builds demonstrating this would be astronomical.

The ammo powers aren't all that great either, since you already have good ones by default. And since warp ammo doesn't actually cause a BE on amped CS (which we should have known didn't work before Red and I tested it and had this discussion since none of the other ammo powers actually detonate combos, the CS itself is doing that as a direct damage power) it makes little choice. AP ammo is fun, but doesn't do anything better than a gun with a Piercing mod and any of the default ammos.

I originally liked Energy Drain the best as a bonus power for Soldier, but decided I wanted to get back to pure classes. Personally I don't care for the grenades on Shepard all that much (instant grenades from the squad are better), and I don't like the defensive powers either. Carnage is a fun choice for a firebat soldier used as a Fire Explosion detonator as a bonus power under ARush with Incendiary Ammo on. Right now I am running Proximity Mine which I am using as a Tech Explosion detonator and Debuff on large targets (still use CS on small targets out of ARush).

If I didn't care about pure classes then I would go back with Energy Drain, or possible Slam or Reave. Those are probably the three most effective bonus powers on Soldier overall, IMO.