318 réponses à ce sujet

[tyrvas]

What you all saying is BLASPHEMY.....BLASPHEMY!!!....I TELL YOU!!!

The Church of Inevitable Synthesis follows the true words of the Catalyst.

You shall all burn in the Cleansing Fire....SO BE IT!!!!

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Fingertrip wrote...
Even top-end and educated scholars, proffesors believe that Synthesis is the final step.  

Yes yes and once upon a time top-end and educated scholars, thought the world was flat.

[dreman9999]

RinuCZ wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...
Even top-end and educated scholars, proffesors believe that Synthesis is the final step.  

Interesting. Do you have any source at hand, please? I'm not sure if you're refering to a nanobiotechnology or augmentations instead. These are themes quite different from in-game Synergy.

[RethenX]

tyrvas wrote...

What you all saying is BLASPHEMY.....BLASPHEMY!!!....I TELL YOU!!!

The Church of Inevitable Synthesis follows the true words of the Catalyst.

You shall all burn in the Cleansing Fire....SO BE IT!!!!

Praise Jesus!

oh...oh wait.

[RinuCZ]

dreman9999 wrote...

Interesting link, dreman, thanks, yet it's an augmentation.

Modifié par RinuCZ, 22 août 2012 - 02:51 .

[dreman9999]

RethenX wrote...

tyrvas wrote...

What you all saying is BLASPHEMY.....BLASPHEMY!!!....I TELL YOU!!!

The Church of Inevitable Synthesis follows the true words of the Catalyst.

You shall all burn in the Cleansing Fire....SO BE IT!!!!

Praise Jesus!

oh...oh wait.

It said in the great book that the Shepard would be brought forth before the starchild and give choices to make which the Shepard will decline.
And the star child said....SO BE IT!!!!

[Knottedredloc]

Fingertrip wrote...

If you do not believe that Synthesis is not the final evolution, you're completely delusonal. Even top-end and educated scholars, proffesors believe that Synthesis is the final step.

I'd rather take their words over some blind ME3 "Lolendingsuxx" hater.

Yeah but even those scholars believe that it would happen gradually. My problem in not with the idea of Synthesis, but how it is implemented in ME3. Thrusting every civilization forward in such a way could be just a bad as allowing the Reapers to continue to…..reap.    While I think that Synthesis will(is) occur(ing) at a much faster pace than natural evolution, it will not and should not be instantaneous.

Modifié par Knottedredloc, 22 août 2012 - 02:55 .

[dreman9999]

RinuCZ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Interesting link, dreman, thanks, yet it's an augmentation.

synthesis by it nature is augmentation. It a concept of intradependence of the user and their tool.
As much people state that it my not be inevitable...It is happening now...
 

This is also well been happening in the ME universe from biotic implants, grey boxes, Shepards implants, and the quarian race. Even the Salarian have  transorganics in there race.
I can understand the point of the op that evolution is not a straight road but he is missing a key fact here. Evoluiton is based on envirment and needs of the being. Evolution is not as random as he thinks. As for the needs and envirment for the being in ME, synthesis is in there path. The path can only be change if a new element is added. In the writers don't want to add that new element, the path won't change.
Synthesis is one of the ways we can evole but new element in theequation of evolution can change the results. Imagine if we found something like spice from Dune and our evolution would change to something different. But that's not the case in ME.

Modifié par dreman9999, 22 août 2012 - 03:12 .

[EricHVela]

If evolution is natural and synthetics are unnatural, how could Synthesis be evolution? Evolution does not suddenly grow synthetic parts. It is not part of evolution.

Do they even know what Synthesis is? Is it augmentation (which is not evolution)? Is it some kind of rewritten matrix of life (which is still not evolution as life doesn't evolve away from life without manual augmentation)?

They don't even know what Synthesis is except that it's the pinnacle, ultimate evolution of life according to them. Sure. I admit that we cannot understand it, but that's mostly because they cannot explain what they do not understand themselves.

The fact that they think that forcing Synthesis on everyone (including the Krogan that would have preferred to die as Krogan after fighting so long just to exist as they should be) is troubling. History shows that anyone, who thinks that they know whats best for everyone, most often does not.

[dreman9999]

Knottedredloc wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

If you do not believe that Synthesis is not the final evolution, you're completely delusonal. Even top-end and educated scholars, proffesors believe that Synthesis is the final step.

I'd rather take their words over some blind ME3 "Lolendingsuxx" hater.

Yeah but even those scholars believe that it would happen gradually. My problem in not with the idea of Synthesis, but how it is implemented in ME3. Thrusting every civilization forward in such a way could be just a bad as allowing the Reapers to continue to…..reap.    While I think that Synthesis will(is) occur(ing) at a much faster pace than natural evolution, it will not and should not be instantaneous.

That's not a problem with synthesis. That's the probelm of the synthesis choice in ME3 ending. In the control and destroy choice synthesis would happen naturally. The synthesis choice just forces it right now.

[dreman9999]

ReggarBlane wrote...

If evolution is natural and synthetics are unnatural, how could Synthesis be evolution? Evolution does not suddenly grow synthetic parts. It is not part of evolution.

Do they even know what Synthesis is? Is it augmentation (which is not evolution)? Is it some kind of rewritten matrix of life (which is still not evolution as life doesn't evolve away from life without manual augmentation)?

They don't even know what Synthesis is except that it's the pinnacle, ultimate evolution of life according to them. Sure. I admit that we cannot understand it, but that's mostly because they cannot explain what they do not understand themselves.

The fact that they think that forcing Synthesis on everyone (including the Krogan that would have preferred to die as Krogan after fighting so long just to exist as they should be) is troubling. History shows that anyone, who thinks that they know whats best for everyone, most often does not.

This is how...
 

We are being the depend on tools. We naturally make tools to advance ourselves. Synthesis is the same concept.
It's already happening ME with biotic implants, gray boxes, the quarians, and Shepards implants.
Synthesis is the concept of hyper advance ment of our tools to the point of intradependence.

[RinuCZ]

dreman9999 wrote...
...

Synthesis presented in ME differs in these points:
1) It's an instant process. I doubt we'll be ever able to just snap our fingers and have a new synthetic hand.
2) It gives organics an ability to be born with synthetics. It says that a body is able to grew an embryo infected with artificial elements.

I understand what you're trying to say. I don't deny that a human future is tied with synthetic enhancements. I think that a future of augmentation is obvious. However the idea wasn't implemented in Mass Effect very successfully.

Modifié par RinuCZ, 22 août 2012 - 03:12 .

[Knottedredloc]

Synthesis is already occuring and has been for hundreds or years. As soon as our ancesters started using the first tool, humanity began moving towards synthesis. The pace will only quicken in the future.

Modifié par Knottedredloc, 22 août 2012 - 03:12 .

[iSousek]

dreman9999 wrote...

RinuCZ wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...
Even top-end and educated scholars, proffesors believe that Synthesis is the final step.  

Interesting. Do you have any source at hand, please? I'm not sure if you're refering to a nanobiotechnology or augmentations instead. These are themes quite different from in-game Synergy.

Nothing to do with Synthesis....

[dreman9999]

RinuCZ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
...

A future of augmentation is obvious however Synthesis presented in ME differs in these points:
1) It's an instant process. I doubt we'll be ever able to just snap our fingers and have a new synthetic hand.
2) It gives organics an ability to be born with synthetics. It says that a body is able to grew an embryo infected with artificial elements.

I understand what you're trying to say. I don't deny that a human future is tied with synthetic enhancements but the idea wasn't implemented in Mass Effect very successfully.

You confusing the synthesis choice in ME3 ending with synthesis in general.
The synthesis the starchild offer is wrong because it's forced, that does not mean we can't decline it and appliy synthesis on our own in our terms and allow people the choice.

Think of it this way, Just because it inevitable does not mean it's ok to force it now. But just because it offered to be force now means synthesis as a concept is bad.
You can pick destroy or control and Synthesis would happen naturally on it's own with people chosing it on there own and on their terms.

You still have to not the concept of this was in hand the moment you played as a biotic, and more so with Shepard and his implants.
If anything, ME went out of it way to show the cons of synthesis. Cerberus as it shown in ME3, is an example of the wrongs that can happen with the concept.

[dreman9999]

iSousek wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RinuCZ wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...
Even top-end and educated scholars, proffesors believe that Synthesis is the final step.  

Interesting. Do you have any source at hand, please? I'm not sure if you're refering to a nanobiotechnology or augmentations instead. These are themes quite different from in-game Synergy.

Nothing to do with Synthesis....

Syntheis is a concept of user and tool becoming intradependent. That video shows that concept.
That is synthesis.

[RinuCZ]

dreman9999 wrote...
You confusing the synthesis choice in ME3 ending with synthesis in general.
The synthesis the starchild offer is wrong because it's forced, that does not mean we can't decline it and appliy synthesis on our own in our terms and allow people the choice.
*snip*
You still have to not the concept of this was in hand the moment you played as a biotic, and more so with Shepard and his implants.
If anything, ME went out of it way to show the cons of synthesis. Cerberus as it shown in ME3, is an example of the wrongs that can happen with the concept.

I intentionally avoided moral shades of ME3 decision in my response. I reviewed its functional side and as it stands, it doesn't work and isn't related to any of current scientific beliefs as far as I know. That's why I was interested to read a reference.

Biotics were presented in the game as a latent ability developed by an evolution or encouraged by implementing an artificial stimulator. Shepard's implants were pure augmentations. Both aren't related to the ending theme which manipulates with inborn and instantly developed synthetics as parts of body affecting a brain activities as a bonus.

Modifié par RinuCZ, 22 août 2012 - 03:37 .

[RinuCZ]

dreman9999 wrote...
You confusing the synthesis choice in ME3 ending with synthesis in general.

I didn't argue about the definition, I argued about a possibility of that specific example of synthesis, how it is connected to current academic or designer's trends and its logic.
I guess it's where we misinterpreted each other .

By the way, for sake of discussion, Oxford dictionary's definition is "the combination of components or elements to form a connected whole". 

Modifié par RinuCZ, 22 août 2012 - 03:44 .

[inko1nsiderate]

RinuCZ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
You confusing the synthesis choice in ME3 ending with synthesis in general.
The synthesis the starchild offer is wrong because it's forced, that does not mean we can't decline it and appliy synthesis on our own in our terms and allow people the choice.
*snip*
You still have to not the concept of this was in hand the moment you played as a biotic, and more so with Shepard and his implants.
If anything, ME went out of it way to show the cons of synthesis. Cerberus as it shown in ME3, is an example of the wrongs that can happen with the concept.

I intentionally avoided moral shades of ME3 decision in my response. I reviewed its functional side and as it stands, it doesn't work and isn't related to any of current scientific beliefs as far as I know. That's why I was interested to read a reference.

Biotics were presented in the game as a latent ability developed by an evolution or encouraged by implementing an artificial stimulator. Shepard's implants were pure augmentations. Both aren't related to the ending theme which manipulates with inborn and instantly developed synthetics as parts of body affecting a brain activities as a bonus.

I actually think synthesis is based on two ideas that exist in futurism:

1)  Transhumanism

2) Picotechnology


If 'synthetic DNA' or a 'new DNA' is described by picotechnology, then we can easily invoke the 'magic' of mass effect fields and dark energy to say that these picocircuitry states are created in the matter of organics (the way you create metastable or rydberg states: by manipulating the energy levels of atoms) and propagate themselves (the way certain misfolding proteins can cause other proteins to misfold and 'spread').  For synthetics something analagous could happen.


Transhumanism is mentioned in game, picotechnology is not.  Make of that what you will.

Modifié par inko1nsiderate, 22 août 2012 - 03:48 .

[dreman9999]

RinuCZ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
You confusing the synthesis choice in ME3 ending with synthesis in general.

I didn't argue about the definition, I argued about a possibility of that specific example of synthesis, how it is connected to current academic or designer's trends and its logic.
I guess it's where we misinterpreted each other .

By the way, for sake of discussion, Oxford dictionary's definition is "the combination of components or elements to form a connected whole". 

That is is a combination of user and tech to the point if intradependence.It's still an augmentation.
There still is nothing moraly wrong with it...Just the offer of it from the starchild is wrong because it's forced ion everyone.

Modifié par dreman9999, 22 août 2012 - 04:18 .

[dreman9999]

RinuCZ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
You confusing the synthesis choice in ME3 ending with synthesis in general.
The synthesis the starchild offer is wrong because it's forced, that does not mean we can't decline it and appliy synthesis on our own in our terms and allow people the choice.
*snip*
You still have to not the concept of this was in hand the moment you played as a biotic, and more so with Shepard and his implants.
If anything, ME went out of it way to show the cons of synthesis. Cerberus as it shown in ME3, is an example of the wrongs that can happen with the concept.

I intentionally avoided moral shades of ME3 decision in my response. I reviewed its functional side and as it stands, it doesn't work and isn't related to any of current scientific beliefs as far as I know. That's why I was interested to read a reference.

Biotics were presented in the game as a latent ability developed by an evolution or encouraged by implementing an artificial stimulator. Shepard's implants were pure augmentations. Both aren't related to the ending theme which manipulates with inborn and instantly developed synthetics as parts of body affecting a brain activities as a bonus.

1.Biotics maybe an ability that an arribute but without implants it can't be fully used. It's an example of synthesis because the user needed to be a
augment to us it.
2.  Synthesis by it's nature is 
augmentation. The very concept of it is mass implantation. Shepard implants being that they are 
augmentations are still an exaple of synthsis.

They both are related to the end theme. The starchild goes out of it way to point out the shepards implants is the same concept. He even says Shepard would be used as a temple for the process.

Modifié par dreman9999, 22 août 2012 - 04:30 .

[iSousek]

dreman9999 wrote...

iSousek wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RinuCZ wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...
Even top-end and educated scholars, proffesors believe that Synthesis is the final step.  

Interesting. Do you have any source at hand, please? I'm not sure if you're refering to a nanobiotechnology or augmentations instead. These are themes quite different from in-game Synergy.

Nothing to do with Synthesis....

Syntheis is a concept of user and tool becoming intradependent. That video shows that concept.
That is synthesis.

No, that is what you think that synthesis is. BW never said nor explained what synthesis as an organism-changing concept is nor how it actually works.

Also, in your video, sythetic hand and living human are not interdependant.

This is just a simple augumentation.

Nothing to do with sythesis....


p.s. The fact that synthesis is forced, for me prsonally, is the least important and dubious question. What is world that was created with is IMO far more important question. Unfortunately, as synthesis in ME is a very vague concept, we will enver know the answer.

Modifié par iSousek, 22 août 2012 - 03:59 .

[Jassu1979]

Synthesis is about as "inevitable" as a galaxy-wide genocide at the hands of a godlike post-singularity AI.

Determinism is a collossal foolishness that leads to all kinds of nonsensical decisions - at best, they're counter-productive, at worst, they become part of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Just look at how much the Reapers resemble the very thing they're trying to prevent.


Now, is the general notion of synthesis ONE possible solution to the post-singularity dilemma? Yes. But it does not have to translate to green space magic, a "new DNA" or a "final step in evolution".
In fact, the closest we've come to seeing GENUINE synthesis was in the case of the geth and the quarians.
It would have been an awesome ending if the writers had opted to allow the galaxy to achieve this solution on their own terms, in an unspecified future.

[dreman9999]

iSousek wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

iSousek wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

RinuCZ wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...
Even top-end and educated scholars, proffesors believe that Synthesis is the final step.  

Interesting. Do you have any source at hand, please? I'm not sure if you're refering to a nanobiotechnology or augmentations instead. These are themes quite different from in-game Synergy.

Nothing to do with Synthesis....

Syntheis is a concept of user and tool becoming intradependent. That video shows that concept.
That is synthesis.

No, that is what you think that synthesis is. BW never said nor explained what synthesis as an organism-changing concept is nor how it actually works.

Also, in your video, sythetic hand and living human are not interdependant.

This is just a simple augumentation.

Nothing to do with sythesis....


p.s. The fact that synthesis is forced, for me prsonally, is the least important and dubious question. What is world that was created with is IMO far more important question. Unfortunately, as synthesis in ME is a very vague concept, we will enver know the answer.

Are kidding me? BW made sure that it was clear the concept of synthesis is a combination of user and tool. What do you thing the catalyst means when he say sthe combination of organic and synthestic down to the very dna?

BW was very clear on what syntheis is. What bw was not clear on is how mass sythesis is done.
Synthesis is the combination of user and tool to the point of intrapendence. Thuse, it's well happening now and in the ME universe.
The link I postedis synthesis.

[dreman9999]

Jassu1979 wrote...

Synthesis is about as "inevitable" as a galaxy-wide genocide at the hands of a godlike post-singularity AI.

Determinism is a collossal foolishness that leads to all kinds of nonsensical decisions - at best, they're counter-productive, at worst, they become part of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Just look at how much the Reapers resemble the very thing they're trying to prevent.


Now, is the general notion of synthesis ONE possible solution to the post-singularity dilemma? Yes. But it does not have to translate to green space magic, a "new DNA" or a "final step in evolution".
In fact, the closest we've come to seeing GENUINE synthesis was in the case of the geth and the quarians.
It would have been an awesome ending if the writers had opted to allow the galaxy to achieve this solution on their own terms, in an unspecified future.

You missed the point on inevitable.
How you you explain biotic implants, gray boxes, the quarian, and Shepards implants? That's all synthesis.
Synthesis is the combination of user and tool to the point of intradependece. You missing the point that it's already happening.