214 réponses à ce sujet

[Rokayt]

AbhijitSM wrote...

Ok...i have the video re-uploaded :

Setup is as follows :
Devastator mode is specced for 30% weapon damage , ROF & accuracy bonuses
T5-V battlesuit all specced for weapon damage - 27.50%
Consumables/Gear used : AP ammo 3, Assault rifle rail amp 3, Assault rifle amp gear V
Weapon mods used : Stability mod V + Extended barrel V

If i swap the AP ammo above with Incendiary/Warp ammo lvl 3 or 4 it leaves the atlas with 4-6 bars of armor i guess. Don't have a video for that though. Just experienced in-game.

Ohh holy hell. You are using the Atlas window glitch in this.

Did you notice how the hit sounds started playing more often when you shot it in the window?

I had good times when I used this with the raptor.

Modifié par Rokayt, 23 août 2012 - 08:15 .

[ryoldschool]

Rokayt wrote...

AbhijitSM wrote...

Ok...i have the video re-uploaded :

Setup is as follows :
Devastator mode is specced for 30% weapon damage , ROF & accuracy bonuses
T5-V battlesuit all specced for weapon damage - 27.50%
Consumables/Gear used : AP ammo 3, Assault rifle rail amp 3, Assault rifle amp gear V
Weapon mods used : Stability mod V + Extended barrel V

If i swap the AP ammo above with Incendiary/Warp ammo lvl 3 or 4 it leaves the atlas with 4-6 bars of armor i guess. Don't have a video for that though. Just experienced in-game.

Ohh holy hell. You are using the Atlas window glitch in this.

Did you notice how the hit sounds started playing more often when you shot it in the window?

I had good times when I used this with the raptor.

wtf, so if he were shooting at a different angle he could not do that?

Also, interesting to note that warp or incendiary ammo is much worse in 
AbhijitSM's testing.

Edit: also, thanks for posting the video 

Modifié par ryoldschool, 23 août 2012 - 08:22 .

[AbhijitSM]

Rokayt wrote...

AbhijitSM wrote...

Ok...i have the video re-uploaded :

Setup is as follows :
Devastator mode is specced for 30% weapon damage , ROF & accuracy bonuses
T5-V battlesuit all specced for weapon damage - 27.50%
Consumables/Gear used : AP ammo 3, Assault rifle rail amp 3, Assault rifle amp gear V
Weapon mods used : Stability mod V + Extended barrel V

If i swap the AP ammo above with Incendiary/Warp ammo lvl 3 or 4 it leaves the atlas with 4-6 bars of armor i guess. Don't have a video for that though. Just experienced in-game.

Ohh holy hell. You are using the Atlas window glitch in this.

Did you notice how the hit sounds started playing more often when you shot it in the window?

I had good times when I used this with the raptor.

Lol..wut?? Is that a glitch?? I am not sure. Well atleast the typhoon can be used in someway to be effective i guess.

[Felis Menari]

Did not know about the 2x ammo consumption for the 50% damage boost. Now I know why others have made comparisons to the PPR. Well...that makes the Typhoon much less desirable in my eyes. Maybe I should just stick with my Revenant and quit pouting about RNG not giving me the Typhoon.

[Valiantheart99]

So what can be summarized from these findings regarding the weapons over all quality? Ridiculously over nerfed, about right, still to strong?

It certainly seems weak to me, but i didnt run the numbers.

[Gamemako]

Valiantheart99 wrote...

So what can be summarized from these findings regarding the weapons over all quality? Ridiculously over nerfed, about right, still to strong?

It certainly seems weak to me, but i didnt run the numbers.

Against protection, it's roughly as powerful as a Prothean Particle Rifle after both have warmped up. It is more powerful than a Cerberus Harrier, but has a warm-up time and is weaker against health. Is about 50% more powerful than the Revenant against all but health, and is slightly more powerful there.

It is still very powerful. Against things that are not bosses, it is somewhat less useful due to lower damage against health, warm-up time, and some accuracy issues (depending on class, mods, and cover). Funny ROF mechanics make it a little less impressive on things that are not the N7 Destroyer or Turian Soldier, but the same thing happens to the Revenant . I don't think you can buff it as it is still pretty boss, but you don't need to nerf it now unless you also hit the PPR, Harrier, Reegar, and Piranha.

//EDIT: I can do a more complete analysis later, but suffice to say, the gun doesn't appear to be particularly weak.

Modifié par Gamemako, 23 août 2012 - 08:58 .

[corlist]

Gamemako wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

Not true .. What happens with AP ammo is that typhoon doesn't recive any armor piercing bonus from it .. So even with the ramp up bonus - losing 50 damage per shot due to DR (before the *1.5 multiplier per shot hurts it a lot)

Interesting! I had not tested with AP ammo. Yes, I do believe that Warp Ammo functions correctly and reduces armor DR (by a lot -- 75% was my guess, and it comes out pretty close). I will take your word on AP mods as my testing with them is limited to Atlas mechs where double hits on the canopy have completely ruined the numbers. <_<

corlist, if I may ask, have you looked at the ROF issue? I have noticed a few things:

"Cold" shots:
-As duplicated in your testing, the first 4 shots are fired before ramp-up at 0% ROF bonus. This is consistent with theory: you have room for 3 shot delays of 0.24s, with the last (4th) shot delay truncated by the ramp-up.
-In my testing, with 35% ROF bonus, I get off 5 shots prior to ramp-up. This is consistent with theory: a delay of 0.1778s per round leaves room for 5 shots (4 delays) before you hit 0.75s and switch over to 650RPM.
-Sp3c7eR's video shows 6 cold shots being fired. I honestly don't know how as it shouldn't be possible, but he gets one update of 2 shots. This should not be possible even if the 0.75s is not affected by timescaling and even if heat-up is synced to a frame update (0.8s). Has anyone else observed similar functioning?

"Hot" shots:
-Iindependent of timescaling, the ammo counter updates every 0.1s (3 frames) at 30FPS when fired high-ROF weapons. Has anyone experienced different results?
-In my testing (locked at 30FPS while recording), weapons that fire over 600RPM are locked into a fire rate of 600RPM. This includes the Typhoon and the Revenant, which both fire at 650RPM base. (Note that this is not unexpected, but I cannot say for sure whether it is framerate-dependent).
-If you manage to pass the 900RPM threshold, as occurs on a Destroyer (650*1.35*1.075=943.3125), it will switch over to 900RPM (decreasing ammo count by 4 every other 0.1s interval). Again, this is at 30FPS.
-Sp3c7eR's video shows the same functioning: even pre-nerf, when the ROF bonus was 40% (978.25 RPM), he's firing 30 ammo (15 rounds) per second -- 900RPM. He's at 190 when the clock hits 3 seconds and 40 when the clock hits 8 seconds -- an 8.7% ROF difference should have fired an extra 6.5 shots (13 ammo) in that time period, which is a non-negligible difference -- almost half-second worth of firing.

What was your setup?

I have 0 knowledge about in-game ROF/game-frame limitations/relations. I'm not sure if I should devote any of my time testing this with various ROF (DM, HM, Marksman) when you seem to be all over this already.

[Gamemako]

corlist wrote...

I have 0 knowledge about in-game ROF/game-frame limitations/relations. I'm not sure if I should devote any of my time testing this with various ROF (DM, HM, Marksman) when you seem to be all over this already.

My main issue is just that I can't say what happens to others. On my screen, I'm locked at 30FPS while recording, so if someone rocking 60FPS were getting ammo updates twice as frequently, I'd never know.

I actually never explored ROF at all until I noticed that the actual clip on the Typhoon wasn't matching up with how long it should have lasted, and I had never paid attention to the fact that it was eating 2 rounds at a time until then.

Modifié par Gamemako, 24 août 2012 - 12:51 .

[corlist]

Gamemako wrote...

Valiantheart99 wrote...

So what can be summarized from these findings regarding the weapons over all quality? Ridiculously over nerfed, about right, still to strong?

It certainly seems weak to me, but i didnt run the numbers.

Against protection, it's roughly as powerful as a Prothean Particle Rifle after both have warmped up. It is more powerful than a Cerberus Harrier, but has a warm-up time and is weaker against health. Is about 50% more powerful than the Revenant against all but health, and is slightly more powerful there.

It is still very powerful. Against things that are not bosses, it is somewhat less useful due to lower damage against health, warm-up time, and some accuracy issues (depending on class, mods, and cover). Funny ROF mechanics make it a little less impressive on things that are not the N7 Destroyer or Turian Soldier, but the same thing happens to the Revenant . I don't think you can buff it as it is still pretty boss, but you don't need to nerf it now unless you also hit the PPR, Harrier, Reegar, and Piranha.

//EDIT: I can do a more complete analysis later, but suffice to say, the gun doesn't appear to be particularly weak.

Nice, I'll integrate it into the OP under "Is the Typhoon still any good?" when you finished your analysis.

[Xaijin]

Gamemako wrote...

Valiantheart99 wrote...

So what can be summarized from these findings regarding the weapons over all quality? Ridiculously over nerfed, about right, still to strong?

It certainly seems weak to me, but i didnt run the numbers.

Against protection, it's roughly as powerful as a Prothean Particle Rifle after both have warmped up. It is more powerful than a Cerberus Harrier, but has a warm-up time and is weaker against health. Is about 50% more powerful than the Revenant against all but health, and is slightly more powerful there.

It is still very powerful. Against things that are not bosses, it is somewhat less useful due to lower damage against health, warm-up time, and some accuracy issues (depending on class, mods, and cover). Funny ROF mechanics make it a little less impressive on things that are not the N7 Destroyer or Turian Soldier, but the same thing happens to the Revenant . I don't think you can buff it as it is still pretty boss, but you don't need to nerf it now unless you also hit the PPR, Harrier, Reegar, and Piranha.

//EDIT: I can do a more complete analysis later, but suffice to say, the gun doesn't appear to be particularly weak.

It's cool you appointed yourself the arbiter of all opinion, but I'll make up my own mind, thanks.

[Gamemako]

Xaijin wrote...

It's cool you appointed yourself the arbiter of all opinion, but I'll make up my own mind, thanks.

Math is not an opinion, dear.

[LegionofRannoch]

doesnt typhoon only pierce cover and does no extra dmg to armored targets? warp ammo is better than armor piercing anyways. i always use mag and piercing mod on typhoon... on my quarian engineer.

[corlist]

Gamemako wrote...

corlist wrote...

I have 0 knowledge about in-game ROF/game-frame limitations/relations. I'm not sure if I should devote any of my time testing this with various ROF (DM, HM, Marksman) when you seem to be all over this already.

My main issue is just that I can't say what happens to others. On my screen, I'm locked at 30FPS while recording, so if someone rocking 60FPS were getting ammo updates twice as frequently, I'd never know.

I actually never explored ROF at all until I noticed that the actual clip on the Typhoon wasn't matching up with how long it should have lasted, and I had never paid attention to the fact that it was eating 2 rounds at a time until then.

I think that the ROF with relation to ammo consumption can only be reliably tested with memory reading. I have a theory that the ammo is reduced in the memory but is not updated to the UI as frequently due to frame-locking or other restrictions.

[Gamemako]

corlist wrote...

I think that the ROF with relation to ammo consumption can only be reliably tested with memory reading. I have a theory that the ammo is reduced in the memory but is not updated to the UI as frequently due to frame-locking or other restrictions.

That would shake out over the entire clip. It doesn't. A Geth Infiltrator, whose ROF bonuses would put him at 873.4375 RPM on Gold/Platinum, will continue to update the Typhoon's clip by 2 every 0.1s through the entire clip, proceeding all the way to 0 (that's 600RPM after accounting for the double-cost). The gun continues to deal damage over this entire period. Unless the game is giving you free shots on the tail end (I doubt it), then the ROF is locked at 600.

Modifié par Gamemako, 24 août 2012 - 01:26 .

[Rokayt]

Interesting fact.

The Typhoons bin file stats say it has 50% armor negation, but in game testing shows..... That it doesn't at all.

So.... Hell. If we can figure out how to get all of its special bonus abilities to not glitch the hell out...
We would have one of the strongest weapons in the game.

For now.... We just need to be satisified with finding loadouts which work just barely well enough to get a little over half of this nitpicky modifiers working....




Reading everything this gun does......
It does basically everything it could do.
Or it would, if it wasn't a cobbled mess that makes use of every idea that bioware could think to put into a single weapon....

Family Tree of the Typhoon.

Talon Revenant     GPSMG Prothean particle rifle
    \\         /                             \\                    /
Shotgun machinegun.    Vorcha Laser SMG.
        \\                                                /
    Typhoon Glitch Cannon.... I mean, LMG.

Modifié par Rokayt, 24 août 2012 - 01:47 .

[corlist]

Gamemako wrote...

corlist wrote...

I think that the ROF with relation to ammo consumption can only be reliably tested with memory reading. I have a theory that the ammo is reduced in the memory but is not updated to the UI as frequently due to frame-locking or other restrictions.

That would shake out over the entire clip. It doesn't. A Geth Infiltrator, whose ROF bonuses would put him at 873.4375 RPM on Gold/Platinum, will continue to update the Typhoon's clip by 2 every 0.1s through the entire clip, proceeding all the way to 0 (that's 600RPM after accounting for the double-cost). The gun continues to deal damage over this entire period. Unless the game is giving you free shots on the tail end (I doubt it), then the ROF is locked at 600.

Which is to say unless your ROF bonuses exceed a certain threshold, it is completely ineffective?

[Eckswhyzed]

corlist wrote...

Which is to say unless your ROF bonuses exceed a certain threshold, it is completely ineffective?

Yes. 

[Gamemako]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

corlist wrote...

Which is to say unless your ROF bonuses exceed a certain threshold, it is completely ineffective?

Yes. 

Completely and totally, as far as I can tell. 600RPM for everyone but ROF-built Destroyers and T.Soldiers, who get 900RPM. That is what I have observed in testing with both the Rev and Phoon. Will have to do more testing with Harrier and PPR to make sure I get those right.

//EDIT: To be totally clear, I took video of a GI with HM on and off with the Rev. No difference.

Modifié par Gamemako, 24 août 2012 - 01:48 .

[Xaijin]

Gamemako wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

It's cool you appointed yourself the arbiter of all opinion, but I'll make up my own mind, thanks.

Math is not an opinion, dear.

You assume spectacularly incorrectly I'm talking about the math. Math is a section of usage and context, not the definer.

[Gamemako]

Xaijin wrote...

You assume spectacularly incorrectly I'm talking about the math. Math is a section of usage and context, not the definer.

If you don't want to talk about the math, I have nothing for you, and I suspect you're in the wrong thread.

[Gamemako]

Tested ROF on Prothean Particle Rifle and Harrier.

Works as expected on GE with ROF, starting at 860 and getting the HM buff up to 989. Observed were 876 and 996/995. Small discrepancy, but it's not enough to fret about -- possibly due to imprecise methodology. Will test with a Turian Soldier for Marksman to see if it actually gets all the bonus you'd expect. Deliberately testing on Gold to get the max observed ROF possible.

Harrier also works as in theory, coming in at 589RPM where 591 was expected and 677RPM where 680 was expected.

Looks like this might be an isolated bug and not an intended mechanic. Might be that this ROF issue only affects the Rev and Typhoon, might be other victims that we don't know about...

//EDIT: PPR and Harrier work perfectly with Turian Soldier as well. This is an issue with the Phoon and Rev. Not sure what else might be affected.

Modifié par Gamemako, 24 août 2012 - 03:16 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

Xaijin wrote...

Gamemako wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

It's cool you appointed yourself the arbiter of all opinion, but I'll make up my own mind, thanks.

Math is not an opinion, dear.

You assume spectacularly incorrectly I'm talking about the math. Math is a section of usage and context, not the definer.

 

Xaijin, stop. You look a fool.

Just because you can't use a weapon well doesn't make it bad. I can't do even reasonably well with the Typhoon, but I know its a good weapon.

Stop assuming your opinion is fact.

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 24 août 2012 - 03:30 .

[Rifneno]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Xaijin, stop. You look a fool.

Just because you can't use a weapon well doesn't make it bad. I can't do even reasonably well with the Typhoon, but I know its a good weapon.

Stop assuming your opinion is fact.

On other news, the pot called the kettle black.

[Immortal Strife]

All this info leads me to believe that the Human Soldier is likely the best wielded of the Typhoon. He/she can Ar after full rev without any RoF issues. To be honest I never could tell if the Typhoon was shooting faster on with the Turian or Destroyer, there is no sound or visual difference; however, you can certainly see the accuracy, a tighter spread.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 24 août 2012 - 03:51 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

Rifneno wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Xaijin, stop. You look a fool.

Just because you can't use a weapon well doesn't make it bad. I can't do even reasonably well with the Typhoon, but I know its a good weapon.

Stop assuming your opinion is fact.

On other news, the pot called the kettle black.

Wha?

Here's my opinion, I cannot use the Typhoon well.

Here's the fact that has been proven to me by others, the Typhoon is NOT a bad weapon, I just suck with it.

Xaijin is claiming that the Typhoon sucks due to their experience with it. That is their OPINION of it.

Modifié par Yajuu Omoi, 24 août 2012 - 05:18 .