214 réponses à ce sujet

[vironblood]

Schachmatt wrote...

So increased damage vs. armor is not working. But what about 'the weapon has an inherit 50% damage bonus versus armor, shields, and barriers'?

Does the bonus vs. shields and barriers work or not?

Edit:

After reading the wall of numbers I find the test that confirms that the bonus damage vs. shields and barriers does work, it's just not mentioned in the summary. Sorry.

Increased damage works against all protections including armor. Your question is answered in point 2 summary:

corlist wrote...

Summary:
1: The N7 Typhoon does not ignore armor DR at all.
2: 1.5x damage multiplier does work against all protections, and stacks with 1.5x ramp up properly.
...

Modifié par vironblood, 02 octobre 2012 - 12:34 .

[IrishDeath420]

I guess I don't understand how consuming 2 ammo at 1.5% dammage is a benifit.

[BridgeBurner]

IrishDeath420 wrote...

I guess I don't understand how consuming 2 ammo at 1.5% dammage is a benifit.

You expend your clip faster. Shooting 2 bullets instead of 1 at X fire rate for 1.5 damage is better than shooting one bullet for 1.0 damage at X fire rate.

Simples.

[ryoldschool]

Annomander wrote...

IrishDeath420 wrote...

I guess I don't understand how consuming 2 ammo at 1.5% dammage is a benifit.

You expend your clip faster. Shooting 2 bullets instead of 1 at X fire rate for 1.5 damage is better than shooting one bullet for 1.0 damage at X fire rate.

Simples.

 The main problem is that AP ammo does not work with it if its not the first gun in your hands when the match starts ( it is mentioned in point 5 in the OP ), but the patch on Thursday is going to address this bug.  Once you can apply AP ammo then you will be able to boost the damage per shot my equiping the EB.   The basic problem is that the base damage is too low even with all the bonuses you get.  This will be a good thing if the patch fixes this, as I always equip a second weapon with the Typhoon, so I am looking forward to this fix.

Patch note:  - Fixed Armor Piercing Ammo not applying penetration bonus to secondary weapon

[Trogdorx]

Annomander wrote...

IrishDeath420 wrote...

I guess I don't understand how consuming 2 ammo at 1.5% dammage is a benifit.

You expend your clip faster. Shooting 2 bullets instead of 1 at X fire rate for 1.5 damage is better than shooting one bullet for 1.0 damage at X fire rate.

Simples.

Arbitrary numbers. If bullet damage was 10, clip size was 100,  and fire rate was 10 shots/second but you're consuming 2 bullets per shot. Then you'd have 10dmg x 10shots/second = 100dps for 5 seconds.

Or, you could consume 1 bullet per shot but put the clip size at 50. You'd still have 100 dps for 5 seconds.

The damage bonus is irrelevant. Either way you'd be doing the same DPS for the same number of seconds before you needed to reload. So why did they put in this goofy 2 bullets per shot mechanic when they could have just adjusted the clip size?

Now, what I'd really like to see numbers on, but what might be harder to prove empirically,  is whether it's better to use barrel/piercing, barrel/mag, or stability/scope now that bosses are going to take headshot damage. Would the latter's benefit of helping you keep the rifle pointed at the head of a boss provide greater dps than taking damage/clip increasers and spending more time aiming at the body (and missing)?

Modifié par Trogdorx, 02 octobre 2012 - 01:25 .

[corlist]

Trogdorx wrote...

Now, what I'd really like to see numbers on, but what might be harder to prove empirically,  is whether it's better to use barrel/piercing, barrel/mag, or stability/scope now that bosses are going to take headshot damage. Would the latter's benefit of helping you keep the rifle pointed at the head of a boss provide greater dps than taking damage/clip increasers and spending more time aiming at the body (and missing)?

There's no way to come up with numbers without knowing how boss headshot bonuses work exactly. No doubt that you'll hear from us testers soon enough as this is our top priority when the patch releases.

[Influ]

Annomander wrote...

IrishDeath420 wrote...

I guess I don't understand how consuming 2 ammo at 1.5% dammage is a benifit.

You expend your clip faster. Shooting 2 bullets instead of 1 at X fire rate for 1.5 damage is better than shooting one bullet for 1.0 damage at X fire rate.

Simples.

But it doesn't actually fire 2 bullets. Ramped up, it still fires only one bullet at 1.5x damage, while consuming 2 ammo per shot. Same goes for the Particle Rifle in hot mode and the Hurricane.

[BridgeBurner]

Trogdorx wrote...

Arbitrary numbers. If bullet damage was 10, clip size was 100,  and fire rate was 10 shots/second but you're consuming 2 bullets per shot. Then you'd have 10dmg x 10shots/second = 100dps for 5 seconds.

Or, you could consume 1 bullet per shot but put the clip size at 50. You'd still have 100 dps for 5 seconds.

The damage bonus is irrelevant. Either way you'd be doing the same DPS for the same number of seconds before you needed to reload. So why did they put in this goofy 2 bullets per shot mechanic when they could have just adjusted the clip size?

Now, what I'd really like to see numbers on, but what might be harder to prove empirically,  is whether it's better to use barrel/piercing, barrel/mag, or stability/scope now that bosses are going to take headshot damage. Would the latter's benefit of helping you keep the rifle pointed at the head of a boss provide greater dps than taking damage/clip increasers and spending more time aiming at the body (and missing)?

Ummm, but you didn't factor in a damage bonus?

WOuldn't it be.....
Bullet damage = 15
2 bulets per shot
clip size =100 
10 shots per second
therefore....
10*15 = 150 DPS
therefore 100 bullet clip gives you 5x150... so a total of 750 Damage for 5 seconds for a 100 round clip

Versus....
Bullet damage = 10
1 bullet per shot
clip size =50
10 shots per second
therefore
10*10 = 100 dps
therefore 50 bullet clip gives you 5x100 so a total of 500 Damage for 5 seconds in a 50 round clip.


I didn't mean you shoot your fire rate is faster, I just mean that expending 2 bullets for the speed of 1, causing 1.5x the damage is higher DPS as far as I'm aware?

Modifié par Annomander, 02 octobre 2012 - 01:49 .

[BridgeBurner]

Influ wrote...

Annomander wrote...

IrishDeath420 wrote...

I guess I don't understand how consuming 2 ammo at 1.5% dammage is a benifit.

You expend your clip faster. Shooting 2 bullets instead of 1 at X fire rate for 1.5 damage is better than shooting one bullet for 1.0 damage at X fire rate.

Simples.

But it doesn't actually fire 2 bullets. Ramped up, it still fires only one bullet at 1.5x damage, while consuming 2 ammo per shot. Same goes for the Particle Rifle in hot mode and the Hurricane.

That's what I meant, I just didn't make my point very clearly. I meant it fires "one bullet" consuming 2 ammo in the time it would take to fire 1 bullet, with a 1.5x damage modifier.

This is hurting my brain, where's my claymore?

[Trogdorx]

Like I said, it's irrelevant. You could apply X damage bonus to either case and you'd end up with equal dps. You don't need to have the multiple-ammo-consumed-per-shot mechanic in order to have the damage bonus mechanic.
Example: The Reegar Carbine has a damage bonus vs. shields and barriers and consumes 1 ammo at a time.

You can also have a weapon with a variable rate of fire consume 1 ammo at a time.
Example: Striker Assault Rifle.

Modifié par Trogdorx, 02 octobre 2012 - 01:56 .

[Influ]

Annomander wrote...

That's what I meant, I just didn't make my point very clearly. I meant it fires "one bullet" consuming 2 ammo in the time it would take to fire 1 bullet, with a 1.5x damage modifier.

This is hurting my brain, where's my claymore?

Yeah okay. It's a weird mechanic and pretty pointless for that matter. I guess it's there just to provide an illusion of a higher RoF.

[BridgeBurner]

Influ wrote...

Yeah okay. It's a weird mechanic and pretty pointless for that matter. I guess it's there just to provide an illusion of a higher RoF.

I wouldn't call it pointless, it was their first attempt at balancing the gun; just like the hurricane they made it consume more ammo per shot to try and reduce how overpowered it would be.

They probably included it precisely so the clip depletes faster; giving it a straight up damage bonus after ramp up, and consuming 1 ammo per bullet would be really ridiculous if you could fire constantly for 180 rounds (or even over 200 rounds if you use the destroyer I think?).

[Trogdorx]

Annomander, the point I was trying to make in the last few posts was that they could have just reduced the clip size by half and kept the bullet consumption at 1.

[capn233]

You guys are overthinking the bullet consumption.

When the weapon was designed, it had a 2x multiplier to accompany the 2 bullets consumed, which makes sense. They reduced the multiplier because they felt the weapon was overpowered. That decision was just an easy way to depower the gun, and yes it does not "make sense" if you are trying to pretend these are actual weapons.

edit:  and it is likely they did this to make the rate of fire to appear to be double without making the host do the calculations for twice as many bullets.

Modifié par capn233, 02 octobre 2012 - 02:58 .

[Influ]

Annomander wrote...

Influ wrote...

Yeah okay. It's a weird mechanic and pretty pointless for that matter. I guess it's there just to provide an illusion of a higher RoF.

I wouldn't call it pointless, it was their first attempt at balancing the gun; just like the hurricane they made it consume more ammo per shot to try and reduce how overpowered it would be.

They probably included it precisely so the clip depletes faster; giving it a straight up damage bonus after ramp up, and consuming 1 ammo per bullet would be really ridiculous if you could fire constantly for 180 rounds (or even over 200 rounds if you use the destroyer I think?).

Sure, I get that. It just would make more sense to have a smaller clip to begin with. Not everyone necessarily notices these sort of unexplained game mechanics and tend to have misguided opinions of things as a result. On first glance you'd see that the Typhoon has by far the largest clip of all assault rifles, but in reality it has a smaller effective clip size than the Revenant. Well, unless you burst fire it, but that's just crazy.

From a gameplay and balance standpoint, it wouldn't make much difference if these guns only used 1 ammo per shot and had reduced clip size and spare ammo capacity, compared to how they work now. It would just make it simpler for everyone to understand the actual stats of the weapons.