AngryFrozenWater wrote...
That's a good thing. Logic should drive us all. The brat and its boys were supposed to be good at it.
For all due seriousness, if this conversation is to continue, I prefer you refer to the Catalyst as the Catalyst and not the "brat". It does not make your argument stronger nor does it make this debate any more exciting.
After all, to repeat it again, the reapers claim to be "the pinnacle of evolution and existence" and the brat claims to be "the collective intelligence of all reapers". Now here you do something silly. You can insert the word "just" there, but it really does not help your cause. Making it sound less impressive, doesn't make it inferior
Who said I degraded the Catalyst by using the word "just"? I was stating what its function, as an AI construct, is, and by what standards it runs on.
Nothing indicates that the reapers cannot think for themselves and nothing indicates that they are hindered in any way. You like to do that, to make them appear like they are not responsible for their actions. But I am afraid that this desire does not make it true.
If anything, it's the Creators that are responsible for its actions. Machines do not have the power of moral agency: they are not guided by what drives our own choices. They run on the power of a singular logic, in the Catalyst's case being the preservation of organic and synthetic life in the galaxy in the long run, allowing new life to flourish while storing the old life in Reaper form. As such, due to the lack of shackles that would have otherwise prevented a Reaper solution, the Creators are the ones who made that mistake, and it carried on to the cycles that followed.
He says a lot of things, but what's more important to the context of what I wrote is that he claims to be extremely smart. It looks like he claims that organics are the ones who cannot think for themselves and that reapers do. Yet, you claim the opposite. So let me use those same quotes again.
Sovereign: Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
That sure looks like you really didn't understand his capabilities, saracen16 Shepard.
Actually, I do. I considered him evil until I met the Catalyst. The fact that the Reapers are controlled by a singular logic suggests very strongly that whatever they do or say is guided by that logic. There are parts to a whole, and we don't fully understand the Reapers until we meet the Catalyst.
Sovereign: There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am sovereign!
Not only is Shepard incapable of understanding him, Sovereign is clearly superior.
Again, I never argued that we are superior to them.
Sovereign: Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, your are nothing.
And if that's not enough Shepard should really get an inferiority complex, because Sovereign thinks that organics are worth nothing. It is clearly you who fails to understand Sovereign's superiority.
I don't misunderstand his superiority. In light of the Catalyst, however, it's clear that the Reapers are no more than tools, and whatever they said and done was aimed towards the goal of preserving organic and synthetic life.
So your answer would be "Yes. Submission is preferable to extinction."
Don't misquote me. That question has different contexts and is not black-and-white: clearly, in the refusal ending, they are one and the same.
Do you think Ghandi would condone the violation of the right of self-determination?
Ghandhi was an idealist, not a realist, so I could care less what he thinks. But FYI, Ghandhi would never refuse and submit to the Reapers, and would probably pick the "Destroy" option:
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence."The end justifies the means, right? Saren didn't make much friends with the Council. I can't remember them saying: Too bad Saren got indoctrinated, because he sure made sense.
Wow, fallacies by association are getting really popular here. AFW, Shepard isn't Saren. If capitulating to the Reapers in one form or another is what it takes to end the Cycle, I would rather do it, and all life would live in peace and determine its own future. This choice is no different than the ones that Shepard made before. And you fail to respond to the point about the pragmatic idealist and the foolish one. Saren, by the way, was the latter: he was already under the thrall of the Reapers. Shepard, however, is the one in control in the ending.
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