280 réponses à ce sujet

[Jamie9]

In the leaked survey, a possible option was to say you wanted co-op or multiplayer.

Now, I think ME3 would've been better had the MP resources been used to improve the SP. And it just wouldn't work in Dragon Age. There is no immersion in MP and that's why I play RPGs.

Now, the survey doesn't say MP will be there, but it shows they are considering it.

If you agree, tweet to Mike Laidlaw the following:

Please Bioware #NoDA3CoopMP

Thanks for your time.

Modifié par Jamie9, 22 août 2012 - 01:23 .

[Potato Cat]

I don't want MP to affect SP like ME3. In any way. I don't want to play MP at all and I don't want to feel forced to in order to get a "good" ending or to have resources that shoulkd have gone into SP go into MP.

[EricHVela]

If they make co-op like they did with certain games in the past (where the game is little more than a digital DM), it could work. I don't think that they're offering that as an option. It seems that EA is pushing the arena (microtran$action$) style of games.

[Welsh Inferno]

I'll tweet it a few times but I fear some kind of MP is inevitable regardless of what we do. And I think it will be the final nail in the coffin for me with BW games.

[magodesky]

Yes!  No more mana points in DA3!

Seriously though, as long as it's not required, what does it matter if they throw in a multiplayer option?  I've played ME3 twice now, and I have never once felt the need to play the multiplayer mode.  It didn't detract from my enjoyment of the single player campaign one bit.  Same with Neverwinter Nights.  It's just one more option.  Some people like being able to play the game with their friends.

[caradoc2000]

I don't want MP, but if it is optional I am not against it.

[Jamie9]

magodesky wrote...

Yes!  No more mana points in DA3!

Seriously though, as long as it's not required, what does it matter if they throw in a multiplayer option?  I've played ME3 twice now, and I have never once felt the need to play the multiplayer mode.  It didn't detract from my enjoyment of the single player campaign one bit.  Same with Neverwinter Nights.  It's just one more option.  Some people like being able to play the game with their friends.

It's resources they could use to make the SP even better, and looking at ME3 and DA2, the SP DOES need more resources.

Now, I respect those who do want MP. It's their opinion. But it seems that most of Dragon Age's core audience (RPG fans), does not want MP. So don't add it.

Simply, it does detract from the single player.

[EricHVela]

Jamie9 wrote...

It's resources they could use to make the SP even better, and looking at ME3 and DA2, the SP DOES need more resources.

Now, I respect those who do want MP. It's their opinion. But it seems that most of Dragon Age's core audience (RPG fans), does not want MP. So don't add it.

Simply, it does detract from the single player.

There lies the problem.

EA has pushed for a wider audience. To appeal to a wider audience, the game must now appeal to people who are not fans.

[Savber100]

Jamie9 wrote...

magodesky wrote...

Yes!  No more mana points in DA3!

Seriously though, as long as it's not required, what does it matter if they throw in a multiplayer option?  I've played ME3 twice now, and I have never once felt the need to play the multiplayer mode.  It didn't detract from my enjoyment of the single player campaign one bit.  Same with Neverwinter Nights.  It's just one more option.  Some people like being able to play the game with their friends.

It's resources they could use to make the SP even better, and looking at ME3 and DA2, the SP DOES need more resources.

Now, I respect those who do want MP. It's their opinion. But it seems that most of Dragon Age's core audience (RPG fans), does not want MP. So don't add it.

Simply, it does detract from the single player.

No it doesn't... This has been repeated times and times again. 

Here's an example: 

EA usually gives Bioware a max of $100 to develop a SP-only RPG. ME1 and ME2 were all funded around $100. 

Then, EA decides it wants a MP mode in ME3. It offers $20 boost for the budget if Bioware would get started in a MP mode, giving ME3 a $120 budget. However, in saying that Bioware refuses, the extra cash for the new mode will not be added into the original $100 budget. Not making a MP mode will not detract from resources that won't be available there in the first place. 

EA doesn't just give Bioware the same 'ol resources and then demand they detract
$25 from the original budget to make a MP mode as people keep seeing it as. 

All in all the game is still priced at $60 with or without MP, so I say it's more bang for your buck with the mode. 

Modifié par Savber100, 22 août 2012 - 01:55 .

[Jamie9]

@Savber100

It may very well work that way, but it's still devs who could be working on SP.

As for the last statement, quality not quantity. I'd take a fantastic 8 hour game over a terrible 40 hour game any day.

MP does not belong in Dragon Age. It just doesn't fit. It didn't fit in Mass Effect either.

[EricHVela]

Savber100 wrote...

No it doesn't... This has been repeated times and times again. 

Here's an example: 

EA usually gives Bioware a max of $100 to develop a SP-only RPG. ME1 and ME2 were all funded around $100. 

Then, EA decides it wants a MP mode in ME3. It offers $20 boost for the budget if Bioware would get started in a MP mode, giving ME3 a $120 budget. However, in saying that Bioware refuses, the extra cash for the new mode will not be added into the original $100 budget. Not making a MP mode will not detract from resources that won't be available there in the first place. 

EA doesn't just give Bioware the same 'ol resources and then demand they detract
$25 from the original budget to make a MP mode as people keep seeing it as. 

All in all the game is still priced at $60 with or without MP, so I say it's more bang for your buck with the mode. 

The problem is that the game must share resources between two modes. The main things that define a SP game versus a MP game are the mechanics and UI.

Unless they create a second game with different mechanics and UI to appeal to the traditional Dragon Age SP versus an arena-style MP (which is likely the direction they'll take with MP thanks to them getting more buck$ for our bang), we'll end up with a SP that's actually an MP game being played solo and not a Dragon Age SP game.

The style of ME3 lent itself towards a bit of the MP 3PS style. Currently, Dragon Age as we've known it so for doesn't favor such a style.

(If they designed a co-op tolerant single-player campaign, that would be different, but I doubt they're even thinking of doing that.)

[Jamie9]

ReggarBlane wrote...
There lies the problem.

EA has pushed for a wider audience. To appeal to a wider audience, the game must now appeal to people who are not fans.

Agreed, but it's not EA I'm appealing to (can you appeal to a company whose sole goal is to make money?)

I'm appealing to the people who actually make this game. The ones who spend 2 years putting their love and creativity into it, only to see it has been watered down and isn't liked.

What do they want their franchise to be remembered as?

Modifié par Jamie9, 22 août 2012 - 02:09 .

[Savber100]

Jamie9 wrote...

@Savber100

It may very well work that way, but it's still devs who could be working on SP.

As for the last statement, quality not quantity. I'd take a fantastic 8 hour game over a terrible 40 hour game any day.

MP does not belong in Dragon Age. It just doesn't fit. It didn't fit in Mass Effect either.

Very true on the first statement if we're assuming that all those devs would have been involved entirely in the game process.

We're once again assuming that Bioware has say 50 devs working on Dragon Age and that EA demands that they split up one on SP and the other on MP. 

As we've seen in the case of ME3, it was an entirely different team with the gameplay department getting involved between SP and MP, not the writing department etc. In any case, the gameplay for ME3 was a definite improvement as we saw. The mistake was the failure of the writers and that alone. 

As for MP not belonging in Dragon Age, that's a matter of opinion, no? If Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate can have coop/MP, I can see Dragon Age going in that direction too. 

ReggarBlane wrote...

]The problem is that the game must share resources between two modes. The main things that define a SP game versus a MP game are the mechanics and UI.

Unless they create a second game with different mechanics and UI to appeal to the traditional Dragon Age SP versus an arena-style MP (which is likely the direction they'll take with MP thanks to them getting more buck$ for our bang), we'll end up with a SP that's actually an MP game being played solo and not a Dragon Age SP game.

The style of ME3 lent itself towards a bit of the MP 3PS style. Currently, Dragon Age as we've known it so for doesn't favor such a style.

(If they designed a co-op tolerant single-player campaign, that would be different, but I doubt they're even thinking of doing that.)

 

I understand this concern but  we don't know what type of MP it will be. More information will be needed before we can judge on whether the mechanics of the SP will be affected. However, in a business sense, Bioware will choose to see the MP as a supplement to the SP's UI and mechanics rather than creating a mode entirely different from the SP. Case in point, look at Mass Effect 3, Portal 2, Uncharted 2, or even Assassin's Creed. Developers will find ways to fit the game's mechanics of the SP into MP and not vice versa. 

Name a case where the SP was utterly butchered BECAUSE of the MP and not because of bad direction and poor writing. 

Modifié par Savber100, 22 août 2012 - 02:15 .

[Jamie9]

Savber100 wrote...
Very true on the first statement if we're assuming that all those devs would have been involved entirely in the game process.

We're once again assuming that Bioware has say 50 devs working on Dragon Age and that EA demands that they split up one on SP and the other on MP. 

As we've seen in the case of ME3, it was an entirely different team with the gameplay department getting involved between SP and MP, not the writing department etc. In any case, the gameplay for ME3 was a definite improvement as we saw. The mistake was the failure of the writers and that alone. 

As for MP not belonging in Dragon Age, that's a matter of opinion, no? If Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate can have coop/MP, I can see Dragon Age going in that direction too. 

Yeah, I agree. A lot of those devs are brought in because of MP. In the case you suggested, I'd say if DA3 was SP-only, there would be 30 devs, and if MP was brought in then it would be split 25/25.

It's a small difference but, looking at ME3, one I think can make a big difference.

And even if it doesn't change the dev amount at all. Let's say all the devs working on MP are brought in because MP is there. I think it changes the focus of the game. To one that I don't particularly like.

Of course, this is my opinion. The entire OP is my opinion. As I've said before, if someone wants MP, they can post here that they do. Opinions are all worth the same amount. BioWare should consider everyone equally, not just me.

Also, to the "name a game that has been completely butchered by MP". It's not yet released but I'm looking at Dead Space 3. It's not looking good.

Modifié par Jamie9, 22 août 2012 - 02:24 .

[Uccio]

No MP, thank you very much.

[Tinu]

I'm sure if they would do a MP, it will be good. Have some faith.

[Jamie9]

TinuHawke wrote...

I'm sure if they would do a MP, it will be good. Have some faith.

Impossible. The very concept of MP (multiple players) unravels what I look for in an RPG. Immersion, great story, great characters.

[Tinu]

It all depends on how it is done. It's not like they replace the whole game by a MP. It's just an extra for those who want to play together. We don't know how the events of Dragon Age III will turn out, but I'm sure you could think of a few scenarios where a MP could be brought in.

[Jamie9]

TinuHawke wrote...

It all depends on how it is done. It's not like they replace the whole game by a MP. It's just an extra for those who want to play together. We don't know how the events of Dragon Age III will turn out, but I'm sure you could think of a few scenarios where a MP could be brought in.

I play MP games. I like playing with friends. I don't do it in story-focused games though, because it doesn't work. I think "The Old Republic" proves that story + MP = fail.

[Fiery Knight]

Jamie9 wrote...

@Savber100

It may very well work that way, but it's still devs who could be working on SP.

As for the last statement, quality not quantity. I'd take a fantastic 8 hour game over a terrible 40 hour game any day.

MP does not belong in Dragon Age. It just doesn't fit. It didn't fit in Mass Effect either.

The majority disagrees.

[Darth Death]

I don't play BioWare games for MP.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

No MP. Sp games with MP are always ****, just look at ME3.

[Vox Draco]

A seperate Multiplayer-thingy where inquisitors are facing each other in duel or endless hordes of Darkspawn are killed? No, not needing that, every cent should go into the single player campaign...

On a side note though: Baldurs Gate 2 had a multiplayer-part...that made sense for a RPG. A Co-op campaign. I don't see that kind of MP for DA3, but I jsut wanted to mention this. MP doesn't equal bad. It is just this mindless arena-fiughting-stuff like ME3 has that just feels like a damn waste of time and ressources that could have spent elsewhere, like on a real sidequest-system in ME3....

And don't argue with "another team made it"...Another team costed money and manpower, another team could have helped improving the main game instead. I never understood that argument...

[magodesky]

Jamie9 wrote...

It's resources they could use to make the SP even better, and looking at ME3 and DA2, the SP DOES need more resources.

Well, that's a matter of opinion.  But regardless, I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that the people who worked on the multiplayer for ME3 were a different team than the people who worked on the single player campaign.

It just seems like your statement is dependent on quite a few assumptions.  First, that the resources devoted to any multiplayer mode DA3 might have would be detracted from the resources that would have been devoted to the single player game if the multiplayer wasn't added.  Second, that the quality of the single player experience would be significantly increased simply by throwing more people at it.  Neither of those assumptions are necessarily true.

Jamie9 wrote...

Now, I respect those who do want MP. It's their opinion. But it seems that most of Dragon Age's core audience (RPG fans), does not want MP. So don't add it.

I suspect you're probably correct in that most Dragon Age fans probably aren't buying it for the multiplayer.  But so what?  A lot of them might enjoy the addition of multiplayer if the option was added.  And a lot of new players might be more willing to try it out if there was a decent multiplayer mode.  Why should the developers' hands be tied by a small but vocal fanbase?  We can at least let them try it before we start casting judgment.

I also can't help noting the irony of saying that RPG fans (by which I assume you mean CRPG fans) don't like multiplayer, given that CRPGs essentially began in order to make computerized versions of D&D, a tabletop game played with multiple players.  Just saying.  BTW, Blizzard finds that interesting too.