280 réponses à ce sujet

[wsandista]

I don't exactly think Multiplayer was the reason ME3 wasn't good.

While I certainly didn't like the multiplayer, the other flaws (like the lackluster side-quests and extremely linear progression) were completely unrelated to multiplayer.

[upsettingshorts]

 

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Welp, SpunkyMonkey, that isn't the worst argument I've ever read on the BSN, but it's pretty damn close.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Also, "common sense" is a limited placeholder for informed knowledge and/or experience. Since I am guessing you neither have inside information as to how BioWare operates, nor experience developing games for them, you're in fact quite full of it.

Leaning on a vague understanding of "common sense" loses out to logic every single time. You are in fact advocating the position that: Something you don't know anything about the production of is directly responsible, for reasons you have no evidence in support of, for the production of another thing you also don't know anything about. 

If you cannot see this, well, I cannot gift critical thinking to you. Pay more attention in school, I guess.

Christ you can't see what in front of your very eyes. 

Keep kidding yourselves.

 

Belief and seeing are both often wrong.

That's why we have brains.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:19 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...


DA:O - no multiplayer - great game, great ending
ME1 - no multiplayer - great game, great ending
ME3 - multiplayer included - good game, garbage ending

Cherry-picking is easy, but not a good way to enforce your point.  As said before, correlation does not equal causation.  There are plenty of games out there (including BG2) that have multiplayer elements and were fantastic games despite these precious resources!!!11! not being used for the SP experience. 

Oh yeah, it doesn't work like that at all.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:19 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I hate, hate, hate MP.

I didn't want MP in my Mass Effect.

I don't want MP in my Dragon Age.

That said, saying that MP is the reason for ME3's beautiful (that's right, beautiful) ending is the height of ignorance. MP was tacked on for that six month delay.

I'm not saying it was directly responsible for that I'm just saying I'd sooner have resources allocated to a better SP game rather than MP

[upsettingshorts]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

the fact that a few of you can't seem to function without an "official statement" about something just shows how reliant you are on other making decsions and thinking for you, hence why your so oblivious to the fact that ME3 was poorly managed.

Strawman.

[SpunkyMonkey]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

the fact that a few of you can't seem to function without an "official statement" about something just shows how reliant you are on other making decsions and thinking for you, hence why your so oblivious to the fact that ME3 was poorly managed.

Strawman.

??

[Rinji the Bearded]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

the fact that a few of you can't seem to function without an "official statement" about something just shows how reliant you are on other making decsions and thinking for you, hence why your so oblivious to the fact that ME3 was poorly managed.

Strawman.

??

Go ask your factory what it is.

[hoorayforicecream]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

the fact that a few of you can't seem to function without an "official statement" about something just shows how reliant you are on other making decsions and thinking for you, hence why your so oblivious to the fact that ME3 was poorly managed.

Strawman.

??

Upsettingshorts is referring to a straw man argument, where you don't actually address someone else's point, but instead make up your own that sounds somewhat similar to theirs and address that instead. 

Nobody actually said that they require an "official statement", but you seem to think that there are people who do. That's not true, and irrelevant to the actual discussion.

[Xewaka]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...
Again you miss my point - absolutely naff all people advise buying BG2 because of the co-op or multiplayer, they do so because of the game itself.

Are  you insinuating that  most people bought Mass Effect 3 simply for its MP experience?
how about no

No, let me walk you through it........
Xewaka said BG2 was a good example of a game which included MP & a great SP experience.
I was pointing out that most people bought BG2 for the SP experience with the MP experience having little relevance to sales, re-sales, or being in any way shape or form a high priority.
Capisce?

The irony of this statement is that despite you explaining quite openly the reason why MP is inmaterial to the SP in one example (which you like) you refuse to accept that exact same reasoning in the other example (which you don't like).

SpunkyMonkey wrote...
Christ you can't see what in front of your very eyes.
Keep kidding yourselves.
PS
- I have run my own company in the past, I now manage a productiven factory and in my mid-30's have already paid off my mortgage and own my own car debt free - believe me I know what resource managment is all about.
the fact that a few of you can't seem to function without an "official statement" about something just shows how reliant you are on other making decsions and thinking for you, hence why your so oblivious to the fact that ME3 was poorly managed.

As for your managerial resources: Congratulations. I'm an European PhD in Computational Chemistry, taught skepticism, self-reliance, critical thinking, and proper deduction making process. Hence why calling your arguments for what they are: Half-baked and with perception clouded by personal opinion.

Modifié par Xewaka, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:29 .

[upsettingshorts]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

the fact that a few of you can't seem to function without an "official statement" about something just shows how reliant you are on other making decsions and thinking for you, hence why your so oblivious to the fact that ME3 was poorly managed.

Strawman.

??

A strawman is when you mischaracterize others' arguments and then attack your made-up version of what they were saying, instead of directly responding to what they actually said.    

In such cases the proper response is to call it out for what it is.

I think there are quite a few things that Mass Effect 3 could have done better, but linking the mere presence of multiplayer to the relative quality of the script in single player is, well, the kind of ridiculous and unfounded leap of logic that I've come to expect from the BSN.

[SpunkyMonkey]

RinjiRenee wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

the fact that a few of you can't seem to function without an "official statement" about something just shows how reliant you are on other making decsions and thinking for you, hence why your so oblivious to the fact that ME3 was poorly managed.

Strawman.

??

Of course
Go ask your factory what it is.

Do you expect me to instantly know every bit of yank slang there is? It's an "Aunt Sally" over here.

Bodneck

[SpunkyMonkey]

Xewaka wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...
Again you miss my point - absolutely naff all people advise buying BG2 because of the co-op or multiplayer, they do so because of the game itself.

Are  you insinuating that  most people bought Mass Effect 3 simply for its MP experience?
how about no

No, let me walk you through it........
Xewaka said BG2 was a good example of a game which included MP & a great SP experience.
I was pointing out that most people bought BG2 for the SP experience with the MP experience having little relevance to sales, re-sales, or being in any way shape or form a high priority.
Capisce?

The irony of this statement is that despite you explaining quite openly the reason why MP is inmaterial to the SP in one example (which you like) you refuse to accept that exact same reasoning in the other example (which you don't like).

SpunkyMonkey wrote...
Christ you can't see what in front of your very eyes.
Keep kidding yourselves.
PS
- I have run my own company in the past, I now manage a productiven factory and in my mid-30's have already paid off my mortgage and own my own car debt free - believe me I know what resource managment is all about.
the fact that a few of you can't seem to function without an "official statement" about something just shows how reliant you are on other making decsions and thinking for you, hence why your so oblivious to the fact that ME3 was poorly managed.

As for your managerial resources: Congratulations. I'm an European PhD in Computational Chemistry, taught skepticism, self-reliance, critical thinking, and proper deduction making process. Hence why calling your arguments for what they are: Half-baked and with perception clouded by personal opinion.

That explains a LOT!!!  No real world experience, no common sense. For all those qualifications I guarentee you've never managed anything more than a group of 5 people at best, hence why you've no clue on how to re-channel resources.

And for all those qualifications I guess you've not paid your mortgage off yet? Because anyone with common sense sees that spening an extra 4 years working and saving instead of in education can get a damn sight more paid off their house that way.

Common sense.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:35 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Do you expect me to instantly know every bit of yank slang there is? It's an "Aunt Sally" over here.

Bodneck

There's this wonderful tool called "google"

Type in www.google.com in your browser's address bar and press the enter key

You look up words that you may not understand so you can educate yourself

But given your arguments in this thread, that's a skill you obviously lack.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:34 .

[upsettingshorts]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

[That explains a LOT!!!  No real world experience, no common sense. For all those qualifications I guarentee you've never managed anything more than a group of 5 people at best.

Time to check out kids, this one has no respect for logic or the scientific method, and has the arrogance to divide the world up into "real" and "not real" based on their own personal qualifications such as mortgage repayment and small business management.  

Thus pretty much hitting all the marks in Talking To A Brick Wall bingo.

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

And for all those qualifications I guess you've not paid your mortgage off yet? Because anyone with common sense sees that spening an extra 4 years working and saving instead of in education can get a damn sight more paid off their house that way.

Common sense.

That hole you're digging for yourself is getting truly impressive indeed.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:38 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

RinjiRenee wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Do you expect me to instantly know every bit of yank slang there is? It's an "Aunt Sally" over here.

Bodneck

There's this wonderful tool called "google"

Type in www.google.com in your browser's address bar and press the enter key

You look up words that you may not understand so you can educate yourself

But given your arguments in this thread, that's a skill you obviously lack.

So your 2 points today are  that MP didn't affect SP and that someone who's created an account for a Bioware forum can't use google.

Yep, I'd say those arguements are about on the same level.

[Rinji the Bearded]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

That explains a LOT!!!  No real world experience, no common sense. For all those qualifications I guarentee you've never managed anything more than a group of 5 people at best, hence why you've no clue on how to re-channel resources.

And for all those qualifications I guess you've not paid your mortgage off yet? Because anyone with common sense sees that spening an extra 4 years working and saving instead of in education can get a damn sight more paid off their house that way.

Common sense.

So you're saying your authority on this subject despite never having worked in the gaming industry is based solely on your amazing ability to pay your mortgage off?

Gosh, why stop there?  You could obviously fix crooked politics and cure cancer at this rate! 

[Xewaka]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...
That explains a LOT!!!  No real world experience, no common sense. For all those qualifications I guarentee you've never managed anything more than a group of 5 people at best, hence why you've no clue on how to re-channel resources.
And for all those qualifications I guess you've not paid your mortgage off yet? Because anyone with common sense sees that spening an extra 4 years working and saving instead of in education can get a damn sight more paid off their house that way.
Common sense.

Ah, first straw man arguments, now ad hominem.
You still hasn't made an argument in support of your original point regarding the hypothetical influence of MP in the quality of SP, or that discredits mine. But please, do go on critiquing my life managing skills.

Modifié par Xewaka, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:40 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

RinjiRenee wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

That explains a LOT!!!  No real world experience, no common sense. For all those qualifications I guarentee you've never managed anything more than a group of 5 people at best, hence why you've no clue on how to re-channel resources.

And for all those qualifications I guess you've not paid your mortgage off yet? Because anyone with common sense sees that spening an extra 4 years working and saving instead of in education can get a damn sight more paid off their house that way.

Common sense.

So you're saying your authority on this subject despite never having worked in the gaming industry is based solely on your amazing ability to pay your mortgage off?

Gosh, why stop there?  You could obviously fix crooked politics and cure cancer at this rate! 

Actually, when you put it like that you have a point. I'll ponder the matter. Although unless any of you are working in the games industry at anything other than a management role or higher I don't see how it has much relevance to resource management.

I guess we'll see how the next game inclusive of a big MP element stands up.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:42 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Message of this thread: if the Bioware employees all paid their mortgages, we'd have perfect games.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:41 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

8=====D

Also, kudos to Spunky. You've been "Strawman'd" by Angrypants. Must have really pissed him off lol.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:43 .

[upsettingshorts]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

I guess we'll see how the next game inclusive of a big MP element stands up.

The amusing thing is even if, for example, Dragon Age 3 has multiplayer and a critically well-received single player game...

...that wouldn't be an indicator of the next BioWare game having both multiplayer and a critically well-received single player game.

Because correlation still wouldn't equal causation.

CrustyBot wrote...

Also, kudos to Spunky. You've been "Strawman'd" by Angrypants. Must have really pissed him off lol.

I bet you miss CoS Sarah Jinstar.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:45 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Message of this thread: if the Bioware employees all paid their mortgages, we'd have perfect games.

[mousestalker]

Y'all have wandered off the point of multi pony being unwanted by the OP to managing other people's mortgages.

Amazing.

Modifié par mousestalker, 11 septembre 2012 - 02:44 .