I agree that everyone has the right to choose their own ending. What I don't agree with is that any one of us has the monopoly on which ending is the right one. There are reasons which I choose synthesis but that doesn't make my ending the right one, just the right one to me. Same if you choose destroy, control, or even refuse, the former two of which I personally accept more.
Still, debating the endings is interesting because we are pooling all our knowledge from the Mass Effect universe into the debate, and that's more than what we would have done should the dark energy plot instead be used.
Can We All Agree That We Have Different Believes And Different Reasons For Why We Pick A Particular Ending?
Débuté par
LiarasShield
, août 22 2012 01:40
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#77
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:36
Dav3VsTh3World
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LiarasShield wrote...
AbnormalJoe wrote...
I believe one or two things will eventually happen here on BSN: ether it'll just stay in the sorry state it is untill the end of the site, or we need to put on our big boy / girl pants and ether: just say the ending is the ending and leave it at that, or a real debate without name calling or anything, weighing Pros and Cons about all 4 endings and reasons why we chose the ending(s) we did.
Indeed sounds good ^^
I think there was a thread a few days ago outlining the Pro's and Cons of each ending, one sec let me see if I can find it
#78
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:36
LiarasShield
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alsonamedbort wrote...
The fact that this story is (gasp!) not real means primarily that the final decision can be made in a relative vacuum. People make it without really feeling the weight of all the terrible things people shout about when they decry a particular ending. And yet people continue to act as though making a choice they disagree with means that someone is ignorant/genocidal/uncaring/evil/racist/whatever, as if the choice really does reflect someone's "character."
However, I notice people don't seem to be making those kinds of arguments against people who don't cure the genophage, or who blow up that gas chamber in ME2 in the Okeer mission, or who let the mercenaries all die a terrible death in Zaeed's loyalty mission. It's because this stuff is not real, and people can make whatever decisions they want without having some lasting impact on society.
TL;DR—Condemning people for making a choice in a video game is stupid, because it's a video game.
This to a degree as well it isn't even real and your telling people how evil they are come on people seriously I know some of us can be understanding right?
#79
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:37
alsonamedbort
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Dav3VsTh3World wrote...
Yesterday I started a thread calling for no ending to be a canon ending and soon after there were those who wanted to see Destroy be the only ending and attack all the other endings, just the same as it is here in this thread?
It seems ironic that Control and Synthesis are the peaceful resolutions ending, where as Destroy is the "kill anything that's not us" ending, you could say ending choice is reflected on said player's personality
You claim you want there to be no canon ending, yet you characterize two of the endings as the "peaceful" ones, incorrectly characterize what Destroy is, and make an implication that people who choose Destroy are more prone to "killing anything that's not us."
No wonder people argue back.
#80
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:37
someone else
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LiarasShield wrote...
I'm also a woman so you may not understand me lol
...as an inherently lesser being, that is undoubtedly true....
...imho, women are by nature consensus builders - or at least more so than men...and a good evolutionary foundation for that, as well. - one could make a case that the tension between cooperation and competition is a fundamental dynamic of the species, ergo unlikely to quell it on BSN....
Modifié par someone else, 22 août 2012 - 03:43 .
#81
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:37
AngryFrozenWater
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I do think it is about wanting to shut people up, but it doesn't work that way. You view disageement as a fight. I don't. I view it as having a different point of view. I don't need to win. If someone wants to win then I usually bail out. I cannot remember many of your posts, but if I disagree (like this one) then it will be because of what you post and that may include your motivations. Be prepared.LiarasShield wrote...
Well for me it isn't about getting people to shut up it is more among the line of trying to establish a little bit of peace and perhaps get some players to realize that it is a ending to their own shepards not everyone elsesAngryFrozenWater wrote...
That's fine when you keep your motivations to yourself. When you post about them on the forums then it is likely that someone out there does not agree. You then have a discussion - at least some have. Ghehe. And that is what supposed to be the idea of forums and thus trying to shut people up, does not make sense.LiarasShield wrote...
Every individual has different believes of what is right and wrong every individual has different believes on what ending is the best to them or what ending they like more
So what I'm asking is could we all agree that we have different believes and views for why we choose a particular choice.
The whole idea could also be simply that I want to understand your point of view. But that is near impossible here, because all the big egos want to win their troll discussions.
Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 22 août 2012 - 03:40 .
#82
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:38
LiarasShield
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someone else wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
I'm also a woman so you may not understand me lol
...as an inherently lesser being, that is undoubtedly true....
Now you're really trying to make me go bazaongers but unfortunately I'm not a lesser being but I love you bsn users all the same despite how mad you all make me from time to time lol
Modifié par LiarasShield, 22 août 2012 - 03:39 .
#83
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:39
Baa Baa
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alsonamedbort has a point.alsonamedbort wrote...
Dav3VsTh3World wrote...
Yesterday I started a thread calling for no ending to be a canon ending and soon after there were those who wanted to see Destroy be the only ending and attack all the other endings, just the same as it is here in this thread?
It seems ironic that Control and Synthesis are the peaceful resolutions ending, where as Destroy is the "kill anything that's not us" ending, you could say ending choice is reflected on said player's personality
You claim you want there to be no canon ending, yet you characterize two of the endings as the "peaceful" ones, incorrectly characterize what Destroy is, and make an implication that people who choose Destroy are more prone to "killing anything that's not us."
No wonder people argue back.
#84
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:41
Dav3VsTh3World
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I stand by the claim that I don't want a canon ending but if you go back and look at the thread that I created (go to my username to find it) there were those who wanted to see Destroy as the only canon ending no other person who was pro to another would say this, I'm just reporting what I seealsonamedbort wrote...
Dav3VsTh3World wrote...
Yesterday I started a thread calling for no ending to be a canon ending and soon after there were those who wanted to see Destroy be the only ending and attack all the other endings, just the same as it is here in this thread?
It seems ironic that Control and Synthesis are the peaceful resolutions ending, where as Destroy is the "kill anything that's not us" ending, you could say ending choice is reflected on said player's personality
You claim you want there to be no canon ending, yet you characterize two of the endings as the "peaceful" ones, incorrectly characterize what Destroy is, and make an implication that people who choose Destroy are more prone to "killing anything that's not us."
No wonder people argue back.
#85
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:42
LiarasShield
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My ending doesn't have to be your ending or any vice versa inbetween it is a ending for you that you choose for your own shepard ^^
#86
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:43
AbnormalJoe
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Dav3VsTh3World wrote...
Yesterday I started a thread calling for no ending to be a canon ending and soon after there were those who wanted to see Destroy be the only ending and attack all the other endings, just the same as it is here in this thread?
It seems ironic that Control and Synthesis are the peaceful resolutions ending, where as Destroy is the "kill anything that's not us" ending, you could say ending choice is reflected on said player's personality
True, but I can understand the reason why people chose destory; from Mass Effect 1, they were waiting for the day to fight and eventually destory the reapers. doing that would signal that every who Sacrficed everything was for nothing. and I can really understand if someone uses that arguement.
but for me, the question in my mind is: Are the Reapers victims? is the catalyst that makes the choice to make the Reapers the monsters they are? there's just so many questions for me to ask, and in a deep, intellectual way (for me at least) I like the endings.
#87
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:45
The Twilight God
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LiarasShield wrote...
Every individual has different believes of what is right and wrong every individual has different believes on what ending is the best to them or what ending they like more
So what I'm asking is could we all agree that we have different believes and views for why we choose a particular choice.
I'm pretty sure everyone would agree that everyone has different reasons, whatever those reasons might be, to believe certain things. That doesn't mean we all agree with each other or view every reason as valid. And this is a discussion forum and discussions will ensue.
#88
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:45
alsonamedbort
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Dav3VsTh3World wrote...
I stand by the claim that I don't want a canon ending but if you go back and look at the thread that I created (go to my username to find it) there were those who wanted to see Destroy as the only canon ending no other person who was pro to another would say this, I'm just reporting what I seealsonamedbort wrote...
Dav3VsTh3World wrote...
Yesterday I started a thread calling for no ending to be a canon ending and soon after there were those who wanted to see Destroy be the only ending and attack all the other endings, just the same as it is here in this thread?
It seems ironic that Control and Synthesis are the peaceful resolutions ending, where as Destroy is the "kill anything that's not us" ending, you could say ending choice is reflected on said player's personality
You claim you want there to be no canon ending, yet you characterize two of the endings as the "peaceful" ones, incorrectly characterize what Destroy is, and make an implication that people who choose Destroy are more prone to "killing anything that's not us."
No wonder people argue back.
"Just reporting what you see" is not a valid excuse to make sweeping generalizations about one particular group of people.
#89
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:47
someone else
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LiarasShield wrote...
someone else wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
I'm also a woman so you may not understand me lol
...as an inherently lesser being, that is undoubtedly true....
...imho, women are by nature consensus builders - or at least more so than men...and a good evolutionary foundation for that, as well. - one could make a case that the tension between cooperation and competition is a fundamental dynamic of the species, ergo unlikely to quell it on BSN....
Now you're really trying to make me go bazaongers but unfortunately I'm not a lesser being but I love you bsn users all the same despite how mad you all make me from time to time lol
lol - you took my meaning exactly 180 the wrong way!
Modifié par someone else, 22 août 2012 - 03:49 .
#90
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:49
D24O
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LiarasShield wrote...
My ending doesn't have to be your ending or any vice versa inbetween it is a ending for you that you choose for your own shepard ^^
I agree with Liara. IMO the endings really aren't worth getting as worked up as some people do. I'd rather post Gooby pls 10 times than fight over how bad one ending is over another.
#91
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:49
Codename_Code
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Try to make shepard agree with synthesis or control BEFORE the spacebieber choices, go, make me proud.
#92
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:51
LiarasShield
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D24O wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
My ending doesn't have to be your ending or any vice versa inbetween it is a ending for you that you choose for your own shepard ^^
I agree with Liara. IMO the endings really aren't worth getting as worked up as some people do. I'd rather post Gooby pls 10 times than fight over how bad one ending is over another.
^_- see what peaceful conversation can do
#93
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:51
Conniving_Eagle
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Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 22 août 2012 - 03:53 .
#94
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:51
Dav3VsTh3World
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I found the thread with the pros and cons of each ending, I'll CnP it here along with any points others made
Destroy
PROS:* The Reaper threat is absolutely, for all intents and purposes, gone for good, with no chance of it ever returning.
* Organics get to choose their own fate now, with no intrusion by the Reapers.
* Shepard survives, and presumably reunites his love interest and the crew he called family.* You act in direct defiance to what the Catalyst would have wanted, and you complete the goal that you and Anderson initially set out to accomplish.
* While much is destroyed, and it will take time, you can rebuild everything that was destroyed, including the Mass Relays and the Citadel (as seen in destroy epilogue).
CONS:* All synthetic life is destroyed. That includes the Geth and EDI. This may or may not be construed as genocide.
* If you worked to create peace with the Geth and the Quarians, all of your work here is gone in an instant.
* Even if you could rebuild the Geth and EDI, they would never be the same as they were pre-Destroy.
* Even if you can rebuild all that was lost, the galaxy is still (initially) left in a significantly worse state than the other endings (the obvious exception being Refusal).
* Most remote systems would forever be inacessible due to lack of manpower and resources in those area's to rebuild the relays
* Only a temporary fix to the Catalyst's problem
Control
PROS:
* You assume direct control of the Reapers, and put them to work as a force of galactic peace.
* While not Shepard himself, his conscience remains intact and acts as a guiding force for the entire galaxy.
* Both Organic and Synthetic life forms get to go about their business without any threat from a force like the Reapers.
* The Citadel survives intact, no need to repair it
* A peaceful resolution
CONS:
* Shepard goes back on his/her initial stance that Control is wrong/stupid.
* The Reapers remain fully intact and in existance.
* Shepard's physical form and connection to humanity are lost forever.
* There is a possibility that, in the future, Shepard may draw new conclusions about how to preserve galactic peace and inadvertently start new conflict.
* Age of fear with Shepard's actions literally requiring no answering to
* Weather or not Shepard being exposed to reaper tech now that he is one will indoctrinate him is still unknown.
Synthesis
PROS:
* Organic and Synthetic life is merged and an understanding is formed between them, thus the Reaper threat is eliminated.
* The advantages that both forms of life offer are merged, and the resulting society forms into a utopia.
* With a mutual understanding of one another, it is unlikely that organics and synthetics will create more conflict between each other.
* Quarian's would benefit greatly by this given they would no longer need the suits as noted in the epliogue when you see them without masks
* Joker's disease is cured
CONS:
* This is a massive change on a biological and molecular level, done without the consent or knowledge of the rest of the galaxy.
* Organic and Synthetic life may understand each other, but that doesn't mean that there won't ever be conflict again, as not all conflicts are between organics and synthetics.
* Like with Control, Shepard is going back on his initial stance about Synthesis, which he has had for the whole trilogy rather than one game.
*Shepard is no more in this ending. Both his physical form and his conscience, everything about him is gone. This is the only ending where you are truly gone (but not necessarily forgotten).
* The full extent of Synthesis including any long term side effects is not known
Refusal
PROS:* Shepard sticks to his beliefs and fights it out to the bitter, brutal end, free from the solutions presented by the Catalyst.
* The next cycle does win against the Reapers, so it turns out not all of your efforts were in vain.
CONS:* Shepard passed on the opportunity to end the Cycle, and the Reaper threat, once and for all, condemning trillions of souls (including his love interest and the crew he called family). I don't think any more needs to be said.
Destroy
PROS:* The Reaper threat is absolutely, for all intents and purposes, gone for good, with no chance of it ever returning.
* Organics get to choose their own fate now, with no intrusion by the Reapers.
* Shepard survives, and presumably reunites his love interest and the crew he called family.* You act in direct defiance to what the Catalyst would have wanted, and you complete the goal that you and Anderson initially set out to accomplish.
* While much is destroyed, and it will take time, you can rebuild everything that was destroyed, including the Mass Relays and the Citadel (as seen in destroy epilogue).
CONS:* All synthetic life is destroyed. That includes the Geth and EDI. This may or may not be construed as genocide.
* If you worked to create peace with the Geth and the Quarians, all of your work here is gone in an instant.
* Even if you could rebuild the Geth and EDI, they would never be the same as they were pre-Destroy.
* Even if you can rebuild all that was lost, the galaxy is still (initially) left in a significantly worse state than the other endings (the obvious exception being Refusal).
* Most remote systems would forever be inacessible due to lack of manpower and resources in those area's to rebuild the relays
* Only a temporary fix to the Catalyst's problem
Control
PROS:
* You assume direct control of the Reapers, and put them to work as a force of galactic peace.
* While not Shepard himself, his conscience remains intact and acts as a guiding force for the entire galaxy.
* Both Organic and Synthetic life forms get to go about their business without any threat from a force like the Reapers.
* The Citadel survives intact, no need to repair it
* A peaceful resolution
CONS:
* Shepard goes back on his/her initial stance that Control is wrong/stupid.
* The Reapers remain fully intact and in existance.
* Shepard's physical form and connection to humanity are lost forever.
* There is a possibility that, in the future, Shepard may draw new conclusions about how to preserve galactic peace and inadvertently start new conflict.
* Age of fear with Shepard's actions literally requiring no answering to
* Weather or not Shepard being exposed to reaper tech now that he is one will indoctrinate him is still unknown.
Synthesis
PROS:
* Organic and Synthetic life is merged and an understanding is formed between them, thus the Reaper threat is eliminated.
* The advantages that both forms of life offer are merged, and the resulting society forms into a utopia.
* With a mutual understanding of one another, it is unlikely that organics and synthetics will create more conflict between each other.
* Quarian's would benefit greatly by this given they would no longer need the suits as noted in the epliogue when you see them without masks
* Joker's disease is cured
CONS:
* This is a massive change on a biological and molecular level, done without the consent or knowledge of the rest of the galaxy.
* Organic and Synthetic life may understand each other, but that doesn't mean that there won't ever be conflict again, as not all conflicts are between organics and synthetics.
* Like with Control, Shepard is going back on his initial stance about Synthesis, which he has had for the whole trilogy rather than one game.
*Shepard is no more in this ending. Both his physical form and his conscience, everything about him is gone. This is the only ending where you are truly gone (but not necessarily forgotten).
* The full extent of Synthesis including any long term side effects is not known
Refusal
PROS:* Shepard sticks to his beliefs and fights it out to the bitter, brutal end, free from the solutions presented by the Catalyst.
* The next cycle does win against the Reapers, so it turns out not all of your efforts were in vain.
CONS:* Shepard passed on the opportunity to end the Cycle, and the Reaper threat, once and for all, condemning trillions of souls (including his love interest and the crew he called family). I don't think any more needs to be said.
Modifié par Dav3VsTh3World, 22 août 2012 - 03:54 .
#96
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:54
inko1nsiderate
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someone else wrote...
LiarasShield wrote...
someone else wrote...
No, because some of us are right, and the rest of you are wrong.
But if you feel you're right then why must you try to prove that others are wrong what do you really have to gain from this other then endless insults and flame rants?
reason #10 -pointless to try to prove that others have it wrong - they're invariably too invested in their private emotional attachments to see reason - I don't even bother anymore...
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reason #1 - Isn't that why the internet (or at least BSN) exists at all?
Point is I am not a moral or intellectual relativist - I do not think all opinion or beliefs are 'equally valid' or entitled to stand on equal footing just because someone care to articulate them.
Yeah, but we are talking about enjoying a video game here. A piece of fiction. Are you saying that people should only enjoy works of fiction that are 100% inline with your morality and worldview? I just don't see why moral relativism is a necessary and sufficient condition to explain why people can like works of fiction that you do not like. It would be one thing if we were talking about physics, or math, or science, or any sort of empirically grounded discipline, but we are talking about a subjective experience of a work of fiction. How can the concept of right and wrong ever enter into that discussion when they aren't even well defined with respect to enjoying works of fiction?
I mean, if you say that their liking an ending leads to support of Bioware that leads to supporting something you see as wrong, then you have some sort of argument. But that is an argument about a set of actions being wrong, and not about someone's personal opinions about how they felt being wrong.
Modifié par inko1nsiderate, 22 août 2012 - 04:04 .
#97
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:55
AresKeith
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Conniving_Eagle wrote...
that is perfect
#98
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:56
DirtyPhoenix
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This thread is like the Catalyst. Causing the same thing it was created to prevent.
OP, eventually you'll learn not to give a sh*t about what others think of your choices. I think that is the only realistic way to go.
OP, eventually you'll learn not to give a sh*t about what others think of your choices. I think that is the only realistic way to go.
#99
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:56
Dav3VsTh3World
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I'm not saying everyone who chose destroy wants it to be the only ending, what I saying is that its rather evident by the posts on the forums that those who do want there to be only one ending tend to be from people who choose destroy, look for yourself on the forums if you don't believe mealsonamedbort wrote...
Dav3VsTh3World wrote...
I stand by the claim that I don't want a canon ending but if you go back and look at the thread that I created (go to my username to find it) there were those who wanted to see Destroy as the only canon ending no other person who was pro to another would say this, I'm just reporting what I seealsonamedbort wrote...
Dav3VsTh3World wrote...
Yesterday I started a thread calling for no ending to be a canon ending and soon after there were those who wanted to see Destroy be the only ending and attack all the other endings, just the same as it is here in this thread?
It seems ironic that Control and Synthesis are the peaceful resolutions ending, where as Destroy is the "kill anything that's not us" ending, you could say ending choice is reflected on said player's personality
You claim you want there to be no canon ending, yet you characterize two of the endings as the "peaceful" ones, incorrectly characterize what Destroy is, and make an implication that people who choose Destroy are more prone to "killing anything that's not us."
No wonder people argue back.
"Just reporting what you see" is not a valid excuse to make sweeping generalizations about one particular group of people.
#100
Posté 22 août 2012 - 03:59
Xamufam
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Modifié par Troxa, 22 août 2012 - 08:59 .
