41 réponses à ce sujet

[Destructo-Bot]

Templars should be the ones with Mana Clash, an ability that will one shot many magical creatures and mages. Holy Smite is hilariously underpowered in comparison. Holy Smite should have the Mana Clash effect, and Mana Clash should have the Holy Smite effects. That would really give mages a reason to fear Templars.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

actually i agree with this

[Destructo-Bot]

I don't even bother with Holy Smite on mages. I just use it to AOE knockdown any yellow's mob and stun the yellow so I can get a few hits in before worrying about a counter attack from him or his minions.



Sad state of affairs for Templars...

[deathwing200]

No thanks. Yes let's nerf a broken ability - and then give the same broken ability to another class. It's a good thing people like the OP don't have a say in game design.



The more reasonable solution is for mana clash to be weaker, but more reliable.

[Bullets McDeath]

This would be cool. Holy Smite is weaksauce, Mana Clash is... a bit powerful, at the very least. Mages without question have tons of crazy awesome powers, so one less wouldn't really hurt 'em.

[Faerell Gustani]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

I don't even bother with Holy Smite on mages. I just use it to AOE knockdown any yellow's mob and stun the yellow so I can get a few hits in before worrying about a counter attack from him or his minions.

Sad state of affairs for Templars...

You're right, I don't Holy Smite mages.  I mana clash them.
But yes, you are right, warriors could definitely use that ability more so than mages.  Mages already have Crushing Prison which effectively does enough damage to 1 shot enemy mages (just dump a few staff attacks their way in the process).

The only existing reason to go templar is the immense amount of Spell Resistance and Mental resistance you can accumulate.

[Dargor Icarus]

However Mana Clash is a situational ability since it requires the enemy to have mana not stamina so over all it is not as useful as some other spells since most enemies in the game use stamina to cast their special abilities. I'm sure they ahve taken that into consideration.

[Lycidas]

[Destructo-Bot]

deathwing200 wrote...

No thanks. Yes let's nerf a broken ability - and then give the same broken ability to another class. It's a good thing people like the OP don't have a say in game design.

The more reasonable solution is for mana clash to be weaker, but more reliable.

You must be great fun at parties!

Templars are supposed to be Mage killers. Mages are better mage killers because of mana clash. Just swapping those two skills around would make sense from the game description for Templars. As it is right now, Mages are better "Templars" and Templars are just soldiers with a Stun/Knockdown combo.

Hey! You don't have DA registered! Were you the guy that basically admitted to downloading DA to "try it"? Why not take this time to register?
http://social.biowar...es_register.php

Also you said in another post that Templars suck (paraphrased) against mages, so why not support this?

deathwing200 wrote...

Is officially my favorite skill.
For some reason I can't stop giggling like a little girl when I explode
mages from stealth. Who thinks rogues/assassins would fit the lore as
"mage watchers" better? Templars? Mages eat templars for breakfast..
and only as an appetizer.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 23 décembre 2009 - 10:12 .

[Destructo-Bot]

Faerell Gustani wrote...

The only existing reason to go templar is the immense amount of Spell Resistance and Mental resistance you can accumulate.

Mages have better Mental and Spell resistance (and everything else) due to Shimmering and Spell shield. Like I said... poor Templars.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 23 décembre 2009 - 09:02 .

[Zvampfar]

Makes sense.. I agree!

[Destructo-Bot]

Dargor Icarus wrote...

However Mana Clash is a situational ability since it requires the enemy to have mana not stamina so over all it is not as useful as some other spells since most enemies in the game use stamina to cast their special abilities. I'm sure they ahve taken that into consideration.

Templars are specifically created to combat mages, so having such a focused ability makes absolute sense. Besides, rolling champion gets you a larger AOE knockdown, so Holy Smite is basically duplicating another Tier 4 specialty talent but with a smaller AOE + single stun.

[Lycidas]

Okay where did you get the idea from that just because templars hunt mages they are meant to be stronger? They have some skills that enable them to fight mages more effective than any other person but another mage. Thats it. They win as long as they outnumber the mages and die if not.
Why do you think even at a mages harrowing there are several templars present to kill a apprentice mage if things go wrong?
By your logic a single grey warden is supposed to be stronger than an arch demon because thats what they do they hunt arch demons...right...

Modifié par Lycidas, 23 décembre 2009 - 10:52 .

[Destructo-Bot]

Since I'm going all game designer here I would reimagine the the entire Templar specialty line thusly:

Talent 1: Mental Fortress - +50 Mental Resistance
Talent 2: Cleanse Area - Removes spell effects in a very large AOE
Talent 3: Spell Shield - Same as mage spell shield, 75% spell resist, drains stamina absorbing spell effects
Talent 4: Holy Smite - Same effect and power as the current mage mana clash, but single target

Templars aren't 2nd best at killing mages next to other mages. Rogues are (stealth, stun, backstab) then it's followed by Warrior/Rogue Arrow of Slaying. Templars are somewhere around the bottom of the chain being next to useless against mages. I'm fairly certain the game was insisting that a Mage is almost defenseless against a prepared Templar.

edit: under Magic and Religion
Codex :: TEMPLARS
If the Templars are prepared the mages magic is all but useless. The Templars are one of the most feared and respected forces in the land.

Further more, the multiple Templars are there in case the mage becomes an Abomination. The codex states that a Demon+Mage duo can kill several templars.

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS! Highlight to reveal.

Keep in mind that Ulric was an abomination, as well as Flemeth, Eamon's son Connor, and the Sloth demon that sends your entire party into the fade. None of them were normal mages.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 23 décembre 2009 - 09:58 .

[Destructo-Bot]

Show your support people! Templars need a buff!

[Gecon]

Lycidas wrote...

QFT

Giving Templars an ability where a single templar can mass slaughter mages is a tiny tiny tiny little bit overpowered.

And I dont see whats the point of giving mages a melee attack. Unless they are Arcane Warrior, they cant use any noteworthy melee weapons.

[Gecon]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Since I'm going all game designer here I would reimagine the the entire Templar specialty line thusly:

Talent 1: Mental Fortress - +50 Mental Resistance
Talent 2: Cleanse Area - Removes spell effects in a very large AOE
Talent 3: Spell Shield - Same as mage spell shield, 75% spell resist, drains stamina absorbing spell effects
Talent 4: Holy Smite - Same effect and power as the current mage mana clash, but single target

Nah.

You should give them:

Talent 1: Summon Mount that can fart fireballs
Talent 2: Ranged Nuklear Attack
Talent 3: Absolute Immunity to Everything
Talent 4: Spell: Terminate creation

[Sarethus]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

deathwing200 wrote...

No thanks. Yes let's nerf a broken ability - and then give the same broken ability to another class. It's a good thing people like the OP don't have a say in game design.

The more reasonable solution is for mana clash to be weaker, but more reliable.

You must be great fun at parties!

Templars are supposed to be Mage killers. Mages are better mage killers because of mana clash. Just swapping those two skills around would make sense from the game description for Templars. As it is right now, Mages are better "Templars" and Templars are just soldiers with a Stun/Knockdown combo.

Hey! You don't have DA registered! Were you the guy that basically admitted to downloading DA to "try it"? Why not take this time to register?
http://social.biowar...es_register.php

Also you said in another post that Templars suck (paraphrased) against mages, so why not support this?

deathwing200 wrote...

Is officially my favorite skill.
For some reason I can't stop giggling like a little girl when I explode
mages from stealth. Who thinks rogues/assassins would fit the lore as
"mage watchers" better? Templars? Mages eat templars for breakfast..
and only as an appetizer.

Templars are mage killers. Where you are going wrong is that the Chantry generally sends groups or teams of Templar's to fight a single mage. In one of the origins a person describes how they saw a whole group of Templars fighting a blood mage and the only reason the Templars won due to a sneak attack beheading by templar that had gone un-noticed. 

1 Templar is not greater then 1 Mage.

5 Templars are greater then 1 Mage.  Each doing Holy smite and Cleanse etc...

Again the Templars are playing the numbers game with some special training. They are better at killing mages then most of the general population.  

[Bibdy]

To this day I haven't specced into Mana Clash. Being able to instagib some of the only interesting opponents you face in the game isn't my idea of fun.

[Nagisaj]

Templars are overpowered as it is though. They are like that paladin prestige class from Baldurs gate 2 with the true sight and super dispel. only here they are just flat out immune to magic they dont need high damage spells when mages cant touch them if you gear them properly for mage encounters

[Seblin]

Unless you pump magic your would-be Mana Clash Templar is just going to see "Resist Resist Resist"



It would make an excellent ability completely useless, at least with Holy Smite taking extra Willpower is not a complete loss on a Warrior.

[FlintlockJazz]

Sarethus wrote...

Templars are mage killers. Where you are going wrong is that the Chantry generally sends groups or teams of Templar's to fight a single mage. In one of the origins a person describes how they saw a whole group of Templars fighting a blood mage and the only reason the Templars won due to a sneak attack beheading by templar that had gone un-noticed. 

1 Templar is not greater then 1 Mage.

5 Templars are greater then 1 Mage.  Each doing Holy smite and Cleanse etc...

Again the Templars are playing the numbers game with some special training. They are better at killing mages then most of the general population.  

Seblin wrote...

Unless you pump magic your would-be Mana Clash Templar is just going to see "Resist Resist Resist"

It
would make an excellent ability completely useless, at least with Holy
Smite taking extra Willpower is not a complete loss on a
Warrior.

Don't these two posts kinda solve each other's problems?  If the worry is that templars would be too powerful with mana clash then the lower magic score of the templar will 'nerf' the power anyway, and with a bit of tinkering could work out to a decent level.

Not that I particularly care overly much, I'm sure Bioware will do whatever they think is best.

[janus0891]

Holy smite is weak if you have weak willpower , otherwise it's strong . Btw the real weapon of Templar against Mage  is area cleanse .

1vs1 against a Templar , a Mage has no chance IMO ...

area cleanse = no cast , No Resist possible ... 
holy smite+ high willpower = Mage will fail physical resistance check... he's screwed

That's a pity there is no mod for multiplayer Arena fight 1vs1 : just to compare our builds ...

Modifié par janus0891, 24 décembre 2009 - 12:17 .

[Curlain]

janus0891 wrote...

Holy smite is weak if you have weak willpower , otherwise it's strong . Btw the real weapon of Templar against Mage  is area cleanse .

1vs1 against a Templar , a Mage has no chance IMO ...

area cleanse = no cast , No Resist possible ... 
holy smite+ high willpower = Mage will fail physical resistance check... he's screwed

That's a pity there is no mod for multiplayer Arena fight 1vs1 : just to compare our builds ...

Depends, if the mage gets off crushing prison and the Templar fails his/her resist check, he/she is screwed.  As for the OP, I do think as it's an ability you can only get at 16 level or above Holy Smite should be more effective.  Whether it should equal mana clash I'm not sure about (as that spell is to powerful as it is imo), but yep it should be more effective vs mages, given it's the templar's highest weapon/ability vs mages.

Of course, I'm sure it could be done in a mod, then it would be there for those who like the idea

[Bibdy]

Come to think of it, there's one place where you fight 5 Templars at once, and they literally instagibbed my Mage the second she opened the door with 5 Holy Smites.



Nerf large groups of Templars.