357 réponses à ce sujet

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Yep no one has the right to take away another person right to do anything they want.Besides enacting Martial law and forcing an irrevocable genetic change in someone are two different things.

No, I'm going to press you on this issue. You are claiming that synthesis violates free will by forcing galactic-wide change on everyone. I agree. However, you are also claiming that it removes free will. That is only an interpretation, not fact. This is where I draw the martial law analogy. In addition, there are many things in the synthesis slideshows that don't align with the notion of slavery.

As for genetic change, what is changed? DNA sequence? Gene expression? Nucleotide chemical structure? Without knowing these details, you can't make the absolute claim of slavery, brainwashing, etc.

Yes by the simple fact of Shepard not asking anyone what they would like and doing what he thinks is best you take away there choice in in the process their free will.

It doesn't matter if its a good or bad thing, all that matters is you take away there right to choose and if you don't have the right to choose you are a slave and might as well be dead.

That doesn't take away free-will. What people do with Synthesis after it's been performed is still up to them. Synthesis takes away their choice in that decision, nothing else.

it does because they will never be able to choose again.

So if I just ignore one person's choice I took their ability to choose which movie to see? Or what outfit to wear on a date with their loved one? Or which direction in a fork in the road to take?

Unless you can prove that people are indeed mindless slaves, I will consider accusations such as that as nothing more then headcanon.

No you misunderstand with synthesis if you enforce you will onto another you take away there right to choose, they can never un-choose what you just chosen for them, you have enslaved them to your will.

[JonathantheEpic]

Please, don't remind me of that ending. Those creepy green eyes, that scary glowing skin, those smiles because of the "perfect" society....

PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!!

[Reorte]

DinoSteve wrote...

Reorte wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Yes by the simple fact of Shepard not asking anyone what they would like and doing what he thinks is best you take away there choice in in the process their free will.

It doesn't matter if its a good or bad thing, all that matters is you take away there right to choose and if you don't have the right to choose you are a slave and might as well be dead.

Er, no. By that argument anyone who's had surgery as an infant has lost their free will. As an adult they may either appreciate that or be left with problems from it but they're not a slave. Perhaps performing said surgery was in no way justifiable and a gross infringement of their rights but it doesn't make them a slave now. I despise Synthesis but I don't like to see things I dislike getting knocked with what seem like invalid arguments.

Saving to save a child's life is a far different thing than to rewrite a galaxies DNA. Also it is usually the parent who makes that decision, not anyone else and that child may end up a slave to the consequences of that surgery.

It might've been to save the child's life. It might've been something else (look at places where pointless and very unpleasant things are done). There's a big difference in scale of course but I don't see any in principle - it's someone deciding something that might have a fundamental affect on someone else. The effects of it will affect the person's life but they'll still have free will about how to live their life (assuming other things not related don't make them a slave). Whether it's a parent making the decision or not is irrelevent, it's still someone imposing a decision on another person who can't do anything about it.

I don't want to be Synthesised and I would be very angry if it happened and demand something be done about the person responsible, but there's no evidence to believe that my mind wouldn't still have the same amount of will that it always has had (which is why Synthesis does nothing to solve the "problem" it's supposed to solve).

Modifié par Reorte, 22 août 2012 - 11:36 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Reorte wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Reorte wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Yes by the simple fact of Shepard not asking anyone what they would like and doing what he thinks is best you take away there choice in in the process their free will.

It doesn't matter if its a good or bad thing, all that matters is you take away there right to choose and if you don't have the right to choose you are a slave and might as well be dead.

Er, no. By that argument anyone who's had surgery as an infant has lost their free will. As an adult they may either appreciate that or be left with problems from it but they're not a slave. Perhaps performing said surgery was in no way justifiable and a gross infringement of their rights but it doesn't make them a slave now. I despise Synthesis but I don't like to see things I dislike getting knocked with what seem like invalid arguments.

Saving to save a child's life is a far different thing than to rewrite a galaxies DNA. Also it is usually the parent who makes that decision, not anyone else and that child may end up a slave to the consequences of that surgery.

It might've been to save the child's life. It might've been something else (look at places where pointless and very unpleasant things are done). There's a big difference in scale of course but I don't see any in principle - it's someone deciding something that might have a fundamental affect on someone else. The effects of it will affect the person's life but they'll still have free will about how to live their life (assuming other things not related don't make them a slave). Whether it's a parent making the decision or not is irrelevent, it's still someone imposing a decision on another person who can't do anything about it.

OK and what if something in that surgery goes wrong, that child will have to live with them consequences for the rest of their lives. That decision should rest with the parent or guardian till the child is old enough to know what it wants.

If it was me I'd hate having that choice taken away from me.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 22 août 2012 - 11:39 .

[Reorte]

DinoSteve wrote...

OK and what if something in that surgery goes wrong, that child will have to live with them consequences for the rest of their lives. That decision should rest with the parent or guardian till the child is old enough to know what it wants.

If it was me I'd hate having that choice taken away from me.

Sure, I agree with that but that doesn't seem to be what was being argued about.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Reorte wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

OK and what if something in that surgery goes wrong, that child will have to live with them consequences for the rest of their lives. That decision should rest with the parent or guardian till the child is old enough to know what it wants.

If it was me I'd hate having that choice taken away from me.

Sure, I agree with that but that doesn't seem to be what was being argued about.

I agree the analogy was a bad one, saving one childs life is not the same as rewriting the galaxies DNA.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 22 août 2012 - 11:44 .

[Versus Omnibus]

DinoSteve wrote...

No you misunderstand with synthesis if you enforce you will onto another you take away there right to choose, they can never un-choose what you just chosen for them, you have enslaved them to your will.

The only thing in Synthesis I took was people's choice over Synthesis itself and the physical boundary between organics and synthetics. I took nothing else, and I forced nothing else. People still have a future that they can decide for themselves; people still have their past experiences that made them who they are; people still have their families, friends, loved ones all who remain who they are (not what they are, who they are).

I have not enslaved anybody! Did I force a change on the entire galaxy? Yes, and I hate Synthesis for that. But I am not dictating what people do with Synthesis!

[Reorte]

DinoSteve wrote...

I agree the analogy was a bad one, saving one childs life is not the same as rewriting the galaxies DNA.

The point was never about saving a life. It was about change without being able to consult the person being changed, and the only difference is scale. The analogy was fine. The problem was the argument that having something done to you against your free will once means you've no longer got any, irrespecitve of how good or bad the act was.

You may have grossly mistreated someone, or everyone, in the case of Synthesis. You've not enslaved them though.

Modifié par Reorte, 22 août 2012 - 11:48 .

[Bill Casey]

The only thing in Synthesis I took was people's choice over Synthesis itself and the physical boundary between organics and synthetics. I took nothing else, and I forced nothing else.

That doesn't make any sense then...
What's the point of forcibly altering everyone at the deepest level if it doesn't stop them from killing eachother?

Modifié par Bill Casey, 22 août 2012 - 11:55 .

[Wayning_Star]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

fchopin wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Sorry, geth. You have to go. It's the only way to get rid of the reapers. I'll try to restore your backups, OK?

With love,

Shepard-Commander.

I agree with you 100%.
 
Sorry Geth and EDI but the reapers have to die whatever the cost.
 
Legion is my favourite character in ME3, i think Bioware made a mistake in having Legion sacrifice himself because it would have made the ending even harder to choose if Legion was still alive.
Shepard-Commander.

sad note: Legion is still alive, just not an independant platform, he's one with the Geth compendium, so Legion does die if the Geth die, his sacrifice goes unoted.. betrayed by his best and most respected teacher... The Shepard Platform..

Dream up is much head canon as you want. The "get compendium" is a term you have invented.

"geth compendium".

Guess what? One hit and it links to your post on BSN. Maybe two hits if Google finds this post.

Now, quit wasting my time.

A compendium is a concise, yet comprehensive compilation of a body of knowledge. A compendium may summarize a larger work. In most cases the body of knowledge will concern some delimited field of human interest or endeavour (for example, hydrogeology, logology, ichthyology, phytosociology, or myrmecology), while a "universal" encyclopedia can be referred to as a compendium of all human knowledge. It could also be referred to as a tome.
The word compendium arrives from the Latin word "compenso", meaning "to weigh together or balance".

Now compare terms.  "compendium" rather is a more difinitive term relating to the collective of Geth, so I adopt it.

However, since geth do not "die" in any traditional sense (upon the destruction of a geth platform, its programs are simply transmitted to the nearest available platform) and so have no real losses to mourn from the Morning War, Legion posits that they instead clean and maintain the quarian worlds out of respect for their quarian creators who died in the conflict and in preparation for the eventuality of their return.
The only geth who have interacted significantly with organics aside from the Legion platform are a sect that Legion refers to as the "heretics". They are a small, radical group of geth who worship a hyper-advanced but long-vanished machine race called the Reapers, whom they see as the pinnacle of non-organic evolution. It is these geth who attacked Eden Prime and the Citadel. This group is estimated to consist of about five percent of the total geth population. According to Legion, the mainstream geth are content to stay separate from the remainder of Citadel space to "build their own future," and claim that all sentient creatures should have the ability to "self-determinate", strictly adhering to a policy of non-interventionism in respect to the affairs and development of other races. While they have made attempts to observe and understand organics (an effort embodied by the unique platform known as Legion), the geth primarily seek the peaceful advancement of their own race independent of the influence of the rest of galactic society and believe every sentient species should be able to do the same, an attitude which shows that the geth are significantly less hostile than the galactic community initially believed.
Depending on the context, the term "geth" can refer to an individual program, mobile platforms which house a number of individual programs, or the entire collection of all programs. Organics generally refer to each mobile platform as a geth. However, the geth do not share the concept of individuality, and think in terms of the entire collective.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Geth

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

No you misunderstand with synthesis if you enforce you will onto another you take away there right to choose, they can never un-choose what you just chosen for them, you have enslaved them to your will.

The only thing in Synthesis I took was people's choice over Synthesis itself and the physical boundary between organics and synthetics. I took nothing else, and I forced nothing else. People still have a future that they can decide for themselves; people still have their past experiences that made them who they are; people still have their families, friends, loved ones all who remain who they are (not what they are, who they are).

I have not enslaved anybody! Did I force a change on the entire galaxy? Yes, and I hate Synthesis for that. But I am not dictating what people do with Synthesis!

But you did dictate that they would all be synthesized and you had no right, you took that choice out of there hands and enslaved them to your will, who knows it might have been a good change, but you know what, they will never be fit to be unsynthesized.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Reorte wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

I agree the analogy was a bad one, saving one childs life is not the same as rewriting the galaxies DNA.

The point was never about saving a life. It was about change without being able to consult the person being changed, and the only difference is scale. The analogy was fine. The problem was the argument that having something done to you against your free will once means you've no longer got any, irrespecitve of how good or bad the act was.

You may have grossly mistreated someone, or everyone, in the case of Synthesis. You've not enslaved them though.

Its the scale and what you are doing that is important, they can not be unsynthesized and if you believe EDI they will be that way forever, what you have done is enslaved them to your will and robbed them of theres, granted it might be brief but they will forever be dealing with the consequences of your enslavement good or bad.

[Versus Omnibus]

DinoSteve wrote...

But you did dictate that they would all be synthesized and you had no right, you took that choice out of there hands and enslaved them to your will, who knows it might have been a good change, but you know what, they will never be fit to be unsynthesized.

I'm not saying I had the right! I'm not saying I didn't take their choice in that moment away (I even admitted to hating Synthesis for that)! What I am saying is that you have nothing to support your claim that everyone is enslaved and has no free-will anymore! That they are all now some mindless slave that can't think for themselves!

[Darc_Requiem]

Bill Casey wrote...

The entire trilogy is something stargazer made up to lure children into his van...

Curse you. I'm laughing and feeling guilty for laughing at the same time <_<

@Versus Omnibus

Javik and Mordin if he's a live.

Modifié par Darc_Requiem, 23 août 2012 - 03:33 .

[zambot]

DinoSteve wrote...
 enslaved them to your will 

I don't think you understand what enslavement means.

[Dmthoth]

So much win!

[Porenferser]

Can't say it often enough, so thanks OP.

[KiwiQuiche]

I would do it just to spite you now. Yes, I am that petty. FEEL MY GREAT DNA WAVE

[Boneyaards]

...so you're saying no to a chance to achieve superior strength and knowledge? You'd rather stay a purely organic being with physical and biological limitations as opposed to a bio-synthetic being that as surpassed you in all aspects?

That's like someone asking you to go to your favorite destination with them and you saying "No, I'd rather just stay at home."

[Blueprotoss]

shepdog77 wrote...

@ The Angry One

Since you blocked me I'll have to reply to your message here. It's impossible to argue with you civilly because you believe your opinions to be cold hard facts. It would be more productive to discuss the endings with a boiling tea kettle.

Sadly this happens way to often on BSN and othr forums with some people.

[Blueprotoss]

Greylycantrope wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

why are you stalking me

It's the only form of communication he understands.

Yet the stalking is done by you two not me.

[Blueprotoss]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

I used to be an amazing dancer.
Then I got a dose of Shepard's DNA.



(Please don't ruin this joke by explaining how scientifically inept that statement was).

Synthesis is scientifically inept, your joke is valid

If thats the case then ME and most sci-fi stories are scientifically inept.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 23 août 2012 - 04:13 .

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

wow someone's alittle butthurt at the moment

How about everyone knock off the personal attacks? It's more than a little aggravating right now.

I'm not trying to attack anyone

Thats a lie.

[Master Xanthan]

I don't really like synthesis since the reapers live. If the reapers live then that means all of the sentient species' minds that were uploaded into the reapers will never find peace because they will be condemned to living inside a reaper shell for all of eternity. Pretty much the same thing for Control. Though I suppose they would be good endings for a renegade.

[Sovereign330]

lol synthesis doesnt strip you of free will...it just adds something to what you already are. something everyone shares..something that unites everyone and forms a common ground...the husks part though...i look at them like geth tbh