357 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill Casey]

Solaxe wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Nope...
The Reapers commit genocide, and you do everything short of crossing the Godzilla threshold to stop them...

No you don't do everything, because you LET them commit that genocide instead of destroying them

Everything short of crossing the Godzilla threshold...

[Solaxe]

The Angry One wrote...

Shepard lets no one die. Shepard decides to fight the Catalyst. The Catalyst decides to murder.
We can only resist.

And Shepard decides to let Catalyst murder everyone.

The Angry One wrote...
Again you're assuming - for no real reason - that the Catalyst puts self-preservation before it's agenda.
You expect it to think like a human.

If you kill him you ruin his plans and purpose, that's why technically he shouldn't allow for that

The Angry One wrote...

No. The Catalyst commits genocide. This is pretty obvious.

Again, because you allow him.

[AngryFrozenWater]

byarru wrote...

Dear Destroyers,
If ever you get the chance to destroy all the synthesis in the world.

Please do not choose for me to live or to die, I like having free will.

Thank you very much,
With love, the Geth

Sorry, geth. You have to go. It's the only way to get rid of the reapers. I'll try to restore your backups, OK?

With love,

Shepard-Commander.

[saracen16]

DinoSteve wrote...

If ever you get the chance to synthsize the world.

Please do not choose for me, I like having free will.

Thank you very much.

Does this unit have a soul?

[Blueprotoss]

The Angry One wrote...

The Reapers were a flawed solution to begin with. The Catalyst knows it. Synthesis is it's idea of a perfect solution.
Of course what you'll never get is that the solutions were never the problem. The logic behind them was, therefore any solution will be flawed.
But to the Catalyst, this is perfection. This is greatness. This recovers all that was lost by connecting the civilisations it snuffed out to the current ones.

How is that when there will always be conflict especially with Created vs Creator.

The Angry One wrote... 

I was expecting you to go more than one post without attacking someone.
Actually, no. No I wasn't.

Insults isn't logic.

The Angry One wrote... 

Shepard lets no one die. Shepard decides to fight the Catalyst. The Catalyst decides to murder.
We can only resist.

When couldn't Shepard can save people.  Death isn't anything new in nature.

The Angry One wrote... 

Again you're assuming - for no real reason - that the Catalyst puts self-preservation before it's agenda.
You expect it to think like a human.

Its not threatened with destruction.

The Angry One wrote... 

No. The Catalyst commits genocide. This is pretty obvious.

Yet you acted as if Shepard did so.

[The Angry One]

Solaxe wrote...

And Shepard decides to let Catalyst murder everyone.

Going in circles, I'll respond to this last since you said the same thing twice.

If you kill him you ruin his plans and purpose, that's why technically he shouldn't allow for that

Did you even watch the ending?
It's plans are already gone. It determined the current solution to be unviable. It needs a new one.
Destroy follows it's agenda. It doesn't follow it as tightly as synthesis does, but it does so all the same.

Again, because you allow him.

It fascinates me how people like you insist on shifting the blame in refuse to Shepard. Why?
Does it make you feel better cooperating with it if you pretend that the Catalyst isn't somehow directly responsible for this genocide? That Shepard is "allowing" it? That Shepard is not in fact being given an ultimatum by a war criminal? 

Blueprotoss wrote...

How is that when there will always be conflict especially with Created vs Creator.

So where's the conflict between the Catalyst and it's perfected Reapers? Hm?

Not responding to your other replies because they don't appear to have anything to do with what I was saying.

Modifié par The Angry One, 22 août 2012 - 07:50 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

The Angry One wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

How does that make sense? The Reapers didn't lose anything. Except for casualties that cannot be brought back anyway.

The Reapers were a flawed solution to begin with. The Catalyst knows it. Synthesis is it's idea of a perfect solution.
Of course what you'll never get is that the solutions were never the problem. The logic behind them was, therefore any solution will be flawed.

Their logic was never relevant. Only the morality of it ever was. We opposed the Reapers looooong before we knew what the hell the logic behind them was, and that would never change no matter what there logic may have been: to save us from tech-singularity, to save us from dark-energy, for their own pleasure. It simply doesn't matter. All that ever did was breaking the cycle.

This recovers all that was lost by connecting the civilisations it snuffed out to the current ones.

 

Is this even particularly bad?

Wrong, anyway. The whole quote comes from something entirely different than the Reapers.

Sorry, my mistake... I was expecting sense from you.

I was expecting you to go more than one post without attacking someone.
Actually, no. No I wasn't.

I merely adopt my opponents' weapons to use against them.

[The Angry One]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Their logic was never relevant. Only the morality of it ever was. We opposed the Reapers looooong before we knew what the hell the logic behind them was, and that would never change no matter what there logic may have been: to save us from tech-singularity, to save us from dark-energy, for their own pleasure. It simply doesn't matter. All that ever did was breaking the cycle.

Their logic is all that's relevant, because without this logic, no solution is necesarry.

Is this even particularly bad?

Wrong, anyway. The whole quote comes from something entirely different than the Reapers.

It is what the Catalyst thinks, and the Catalyst thinks only of the positive.

I merely adopt my opponents' weapons to use against them.

You keep saying that. Maybe one day it'll become true.

[Solaxe]

The Angry One wrote...

Did you even watch the ending?
It's plans are already gone. It determined the current solution to be unviable. It needs a new one.
Destroy follows it's agenda. It doesn't follow it as tightly as synthesis does, but it does so all the same.

Oh and now you believe and trust that genoicidal maniac? And you still don't explain why destroying him and his "army" means following his agenda

The Angry One wrote...


It fascinates me how people like you insist on shifting the blame in refuse to Shepard. Why?

Because he refuses to save almost everyone who trusted him?

Imagine that Shepard meets his crew after refusal..

"hey team, reaper god allowed me to destroy all Reapers, but I decided to let him murder everyone, but we will be murdered as free people! Isn't that great?"

The Angry One wrote...
Does it make you feel better cooperating with it if you pretend that the Catalyst isn't somehow directly responsible for this genocide? That Shepard is "allowing" it? That Shepard is not in fact being given an ultimatum by a war criminal?

Killing it is not a cooperation

Modifié par Solaxe, 22 août 2012 - 08:01 .

[D24O]

I think syntheses would be better if the Reapers grew speakers to go with their awesome base noises.

[The Angry One]

Solaxe wrote...

Oh and now you believe and trust that genoicidal maniac? And you still don't explain why destroying him and his "army" means following his agenda

How is this trusting it? Unlike the things it blatantly lies about, it has no reason to lie about this.
On the other hand if you think absolutely everything it says is a lie, why do you trust it's options?

Because he refuses to save almost everyone who trusted him?

By giving in to the war criminal's demands. Yeah. Sure. Whatever.

Killing it is not a cooperation

Yes, it is. Because it's own survival is not paramount. It's agenda is.

[Solaxe]

The Angry One wrote...


How is this trusting it? Unlike the things it blatantly lies about, it has no reason to lie about this.
On the other hand if you think absolutely everything it says is a lie, why do you trust it's options?

Speak for yourself, I trust him

The Angry One wrote...
By giving in to the war criminal's demands. Yeah. Sure. Whatever.

Didn't know that Catalyst wanted you to kill all Reapers and f*ck up his plans

The Angry One wrote...

Yes, it is. Because it's own survival is not paramount. It's agenda is.

If Catalyst and the Reapers die, his agenda also dies...

Modifié par Solaxe, 22 août 2012 - 08:06 .

[The Angry One]

[quote]Solaxe wrote...

Speak for yourself, I trust him[/quote]

While calling it a liar. Herpidy derp.

[quote]Didn't know that Catalyst wanted you to kill all Reapers and **** up his plans[/quote]

I've already explained why. Not my fault that you refuse to read my posts and insist on giving the Catalyst simplistic

[quote]If Catalyst and the Reapers die, his agenda also dies...[/quote]

Case in point.



[/quote]

[Blueprotoss]

The Angry One wrote...

How is this trusting it? Unlike the things it blatantly lies about, it has no reason to lie about this.
On the other hand if you think absolutely everything it says is a lie, why do you trust it's options?

The lsser of the two evils and we don't know whats outside of the Milky Way.

The Angry One wrote...

Yes, it is. Because it's own survival is not paramount. It's agenda is.

Thats like saying guns only kill people instead of people holding guns.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

The Angry One wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Their logic was never relevant. Only the morality of it ever was. We opposed the Reapers looooong before we knew what the hell the logic behind them was, and that would never change no matter what there logic may have been: to save us from tech-singularity, to save us from dark-energy, for their own pleasure. It simply doesn't matter. All that ever did was breaking the cycle.

Their logic is all that's relevant, because without this logic, no solution is necesarry.

WTF?

You don't stop a criminal to stop his logic, you do it to simply stop the criminal.

Is this even particularly bad?

Wrong, anyway. The whole quote comes from something entirely different than the Reapers.

It is what the Catalyst thinks, and the Catalyst thinks only of the positive.

Association fallacy. "It's what he thinks, so..."

And I can prove you wrong about the "thinks only of the positive" part very easily. He tried several things before the Reapers became his solution, and they didn't work out, so he scrapped them. He would have to have seen some kind of negative in his original methods to ditch them.

He also says that his creators were forced against their will, but it was the only solution. That concedes that them being forced is a negative, because he has to justify it with the next statement.

I merely adopt my opponents' weapons to use against them.

You keep saying that. Maybe one day it'll become true.

Unless you don't think that calling someone's actions cowardly (opinion, not fact), arrogant, and suggests that said person isn't capable of anything else ... is an insult... then I'm afraid it already has become true. Sorry!

[Solaxe]

The Angry One wrote...

While calling it a liar. Herpidy derp.

..where?

The Angry One wrote...

I've already explained why. Not my fault that you refuse to read my posts and insist on giving the Catalyst simplistic

You didn't. You said the same thing but in different words. Destroy stops his plans and screws up his retarded genoicidal logic. Reapers die. They are defeated. Period. Finito. Doesn't matter if they die because they allow you to kill them or not. Your goal was to destroy them. You do it.

The Angry One wrote...

Case in point.

Then what's your problem if you agree with me?

Modifié par Solaxe, 22 août 2012 - 08:17 .

[Jadebaby]

Solaxe wrote...

"hey team, reaper god allowed me to destroy all Reapers, but I decided to let him murder everyone, but we will be murdered as free people! Isn't that great?"

You forgot to include the genocide.

[Solaxe]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

You forgot to include the genocide.

The Geth and EDI die in both cases, so what's your point

[MegaSovereign]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Solaxe wrote...

"hey team, reaper god allowed me to destroy all Reapers, but I decided to let him murder everyone, but we will be murdered as free people! Isn't that great?"

You forgot to include the genocide.

You save more lives by using the Crucible, even if refusal did result in a conventional victory.

[The Angry One]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

WTF?

You don't stop a criminal to stop his logic, you do it to simply stop the criminal.

How does this change the fact that everything the Catalyst has done has been due to it's faulty logic, and any solution it comes up with built on this faulty logic, whether it's the cycle of genocide or synthesis, will also be faulty?

Association fallacy. "It's what he thinks, so..."

You're projecting.
All I was talking about was the point of view of the Catalyst.

And I can prove you wrong about the "thinks only of the positive" part very easily. He tried several things before the Reapers became his solution, and they didn't work out, so he scrapped them. He would have to have seen some kind of negative in his original methods to ditch them.

Or it scrapped them because they didn't work at all.

He also says that his creators were forced against their will, but it was the only solution. That concedes that them being forced is a negative, because he has to justify it with the next statement.

It acknoledges the negative impact, but it doesn't sit down and think about it. It simply says it's necesarry, moves on and thinks only of the positive.
For example. It states they didn't approve. It doesn't stop to think about why. No, it's the only solution and that's that.

Unless you don't think that calling someone's actions cowardly (opinion, not fact), arrogant, and suggests that said person isn't capable of anything else ... is an insult... then I'm afraid it already has become true. Sorry!

Well thank you for listing the things you have done. I'm not sure why this is relevant.

[shepdog77]

*pokes head in thread*

*notices angry one spouting nonsense*

*slowly backs out*

[The Angry One]

Solaxe wrote...

..where?

I said the Catalyst outright states it's current solution is unviable, disproving your point.
You asked why I believed him. If you have to ask that, then you're casting doubt on it's word.

ou didn't. You said the same thing but in different words. Destroy stops his plans and screws up his retarded genoicidal logic. Reapers die. They are defeated. Period. Finito. Doesn't matter if they die because they allow you to kill them or not. Your goal was to destroy them. You do it.

And YET AGAIN you ignore the fact that it's agenda continues after it's death because YOU KILLED THE SYNTHETICS FOR IT. Y

Then what's your problem if you agree with me?

That you think of the Catalyst as a human, with human motivations.

[HiddenInWar]

Solaxe wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

I dunno how you define free will, but having someone synthesize you, without your permission is not it.

Do you have Geth and EDI permission to kill them in destroy?

Do you have Galaxy's permission to become a supreme ruler in control?

Do you have Galaxy's permission to betray them despite of "I win" buttons in refusal?

Don't be a hypocrite

[AresKeith]

shepdog77 wrote...

*pokes head in thread*

*notices angry one spouting nonsense*

*slowly backs out*

don't know what your talking about, she's awesome lol

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

shepdog77 wrote...

*pokes head in thread*

*notices angry one spouting nonsense*

*slowly backs out*

don't know what your talking about, she's awesome lol

Nonsense supporting nonsense won't work even when its sarcasm.