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Ubisoft: PC has Piracy Rate of 93-95%, F2P the Future


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#26
naughty99

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Costin_Razvan wrote...

LOL. 93% piracy rate on PC? WoW. Even China has barely 77% and they have the HIGHEST in the bloody world.


Do you mean to say 77% of all games in China are pirated copies? 

It's my understanding that the PS3, Xbox360 and Wii consoles have never even been launched there, yet there are reportedly millions of people playing these games. It would seem 100% of the console games are either pirated copies or illegal grey market imports, as the Chinese government has banned the hardware and software sales. I understand even the hardware has been pirated in some cases.

Modifié par naughty99, 22 août 2012 - 09:48 .


#27
Brockololly

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Just tossing out that number is ridiculous. Ubisoft just has a terrible record with PC games and going F2P is a convenient excuse. I'm just going to copy/paste Rock, Paper, Shotgun's analysis:

Rock, Paper, Shotgun is read by over 92% of the Earth’s population, and our most frequent readers are in the top 15% most attractive people on Earth! Yes, we all love statistics we don’t provide any evidence for. There’s so much fun to be had. Ubisoft have also been revelling in that fun, by telling GI.biz that they experience “93-95% piracy” rates. Which is odd, what with all their boasting that their always-awful DRM has been so darned effective at combating piracy. How incredibly confusing! Anyway, this, says bossman Yves Guillemot, is why they’re heading down the path of F2P games.

Here’s the logic: Only 5-7% of people ever fork out cash for the F2P models that are out there. And that just happens to match the piracy rates seemingly plucked out of the air. You may immediately say, “Er, if it’s the same, why bother doing something different?” But Guillemot explains that with the F2P model, that 5-7% who pay will keep on paying, over and over, making more money for the F2Ping company in the long run. Thus making the F2P model more financially effective.

But the problem is deeper than just believing that piracy rates are 95%. (Because of course you just can’t measure that. You can count torrents and compare it to sales, etc, but it’s still a guess.) Let’s just say that piracy rates are 95%, because I’ve no more evidence to say they aren’t than they likely have to say they are. The issue is determining what it’s 95% of.

There is no hard evidence to show that piracy affects sales. If Ubisoft has some, then they should share it. There is evidence to show that pirated copies almost never translate to lost sales (and as much anecdotal evidence to show that piracy encourages sales as there is to show it discourages them), and we absolutely cannot take the music and film industry’s laughable route of declaring every pirated copy as lost revenue. That’s plain deceitful, and of no help to anyone. So instead you could, if you were actually interested in business and not in scaremongering, say “We sold X hundred thousand copies of game Y”. Or indeed Z hundred copies. And then you could stop saying anything else, since that’s the only useful data you actually have.

Because really what matters is how many you sell, or – in F2P land – how much money you persuade people to give you.

The 95% figure is based on two numbers (one of them guesswork) happening to match up: F2P rates, and alleged piracy rates. It’s a comparison that is completely meaningless, as the two have little in common. When I buy a game, as much as the vile EULAs and licenses we are required to agree to may say otherwise, I do on some vague level have (if not own) a copy. When I play an online game, I am only ever visiting that game’s house, and the moment they switch it off (and they will) all my investment is gone forever. And one of them IS FREE. It says so right in the business model. I’m allowed to play it for free. And in doing so, by Ubisoft’s logic, means I am being compared with a pirate. That is so damned distasteful.

Conflating F2P numbers with piracy “numbers” is a handy way to excuse going down the path of the far cheaper development for F2P gaming, where sticking it in a browser, or cutting it down for a downloadable client, means players have their expectations severely cut down. A path that can, if you strike lucky, find your product catching a very large audience of people willing to constantly fork out small increments in order to be able to keep playing. Most don’t succeed, but one big hit can be enough. They’re cheaper to develop, they also have the potential of having players just keep on paying, and people don’t expect them to be nearly as good as full price boxed games – and hey, they’re free, right? So why would anyone complain?

Of course it’s absolutely fine for Ubi to head off in the F2P direction. It makes business sense for people to leap and grab cash before the fad is over, and the next new thing comes along. You may not like the business model, you may even think the way pay-to-play’s insidious increments work is distasteful. But if you’re a publisher, it’s a revenue stream you’ll want to tap into. But Ubi, please don’t make ridiculous excuses. Honestly, I find it bewildering that the entirety of Ubi’s board of directors hasn’t decreed that Guillemot is never allowed to say the word “piracy” again as long as he lives. Their reputation amongst PC gamers is so utterly terrible right now, despite releasing a ton of great games on the machine. It would just be amazing to see the company, for once, celebrating their PC customers, rather than berating them. Because they have customers. Paying customers. Maybe instead of pointing out that whatever their imagined piracy rates are, they could acknowledge they also have people who pay a huge chunk of cash for their games, and just maybe act like they’re grateful. Just maybe.


Modifié par Brockololly, 22 août 2012 - 10:50 .


#28
Costin_Razvan

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naughty99 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

LOL. 93% piracy rate on PC? WoW. Even China has barely 77% and they have the HIGHEST in the bloody world.


Do you mean to say 77% of all games in China are pirated copies? 

It's my understanding that the PS3, Xbox360 and Wii consoles have never even been launched there, yet there are reportedly millions of people playing these games. It would seem 100% of the console games are either pirated copies or illegal grey market imports, as the Chinese government has banned the hardware and software sales. I understand even the hardware has been pirated in some cases.


77% of all software. Furthermore China also means Hong Kong where games and consoles are sold if I am not wrong.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 août 2012 - 11:05 .


#29
Addai

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This week Popcap laid off a bunch of workers. It reminds me of the dotcom boom- so many people banking on the willingness of people on mobile and social networks to fork over cash and not notice that they're paying too much for too little game. People play those time-waster games for the same reason they browse the internet for news rather than buy newpapers- *because* they're free.  When I hit a paywall on a news site, I just click over to the next one.  There's a huge disincentive to pull out the credit card when there's so much else to do on the web.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 août 2012 - 11:07 .


#30
AngryFrozenWater

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I have given up on Ubisoft years ago, because of their DRM policy. I can't remember buying any title of them since and I don't pirate them either, because that's something I never do. It's not even a boycott. It's just enough is enough. I don't have the impression that I miss anything and it makes shopping for games easier: Ubisoft is an automatic no. EA is close, though.

#31
Fishy

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It`s funny hearing this. Just has I am unable to play sleeping dog without crashing each 5 minutes I  heard rumors that the pirated version of the game does not crash. Steam do not offer refund ..  So what does that mean? Some ppl are playing a game without crashing and they haven`t paid anything for it.. Sure some of them might be sharing their bandwitch ( seeding ) but whatever.

Like Gabe Said .. You want fewer pirates ? Offer a better service and a FASTER services than torrents. You can find anything you want through pirates at the speed of light. That remind me when I wanted to purchase RE IV( FOR PC) and the only place that I could find it  ( With the texture pack ) was on a torrent site. The temptation was really big.

Also before digital gaming,  torrent site was even a better solution for many people. I think the best way to fight piracy is   throthling torrent  or bandwitch cap ( Which is even a worse idea because of the icnrease need of unlimited bandwitch).

Do you guy remember the amount of anime on youtube before ? How they fought anime piracy? By streaming it themselves.

#32
Addai

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I have given up on Ubisoft years ago, because of their DRM policy. I can't remember buying any title of them since and I don't pirate them either, because that's something I never do. It's not even a boycott. It's just enough is enough. I don't have the impression that I miss anything and it makes shopping for games easier: Ubisoft is an automatic no. EA is close, though.

Yeah I agree, I'm not boycotting EA or Ubisoft, I just don't want what they're selling.  The disdain is mutual.  I do believe in paying a fair price for everything but I'm sick of not being able to play games I paid for.  If a vendor like amazon.com just stopped delivering what you order from them, how quickly would they be out of business?

#33
Guest_greengoron89_*

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Addai67 wrote...

This week Popcap laid off a bunch of workers. It reminds me of the dotcom boom- so many people banking on the willingness of people on mobile and social networks to fork over cash and not notice that they're paying too much for too little game. People play those time-waster games for the same reason they browse the internet for news rather than buy newpapers- *because* they're free.  When I hit a paywall on a news site, I just click over to the next one.  There's a huge disincentive to pull out the credit card when there's so much else to do on the web.


It's EA - PopCap made a deal with the Devil last year, and now they're paying the piper. Now, PopCap EA is dumping a bunch of its workers, and Plants vs. Zombies 2 is reportedly going to be a multiplayer shooter.

A shame, since PvZ was a really awesome and unique game - now the franchise will be converted into watered down swill just like most other EA-owned franchises.

But I digress.

#34
adneate

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Let me guess how they got the 95% Piracy rate, they took projected sales and subtracted actual sales then calculated how short they fell from projections. The only reason Assassin's Creed didn't sell 15 Million copies on PC was because of pirates not because the game sucks ass and the port is fraking horrible.

#35
termokanden

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greengoron89 wrote...

and Plants vs. Zombies 2 is reportedly going to be a multiplayer shooter.


classic. :)

I think I would buy that game..

adneate wrote...

Let me guess how they got the 95% Piracy rate, they took projected sales and subtracted actual sales then calculated how short they fell from projections. The only reason Assassin's Creed didn't sell 15 Million copies on PC was because of pirates not because the game sucks ass and the port is fraking horrible.


Wouldn't put it past ye olde business types. In fact, the media seems to swallow this kind of thing as well, and I just saw a similar calculation on TV in a completely different context.

Modifié par termokanden, 22 août 2012 - 11:41 .


#36
Fishy

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adneate wrote...

Let me guess how they got the 95% Piracy rate, they took projected sales and subtracted actual sales then calculated how short they fell from projections. The only reason Assassin's Creed didn't sell 15 Million copies on PC was because of pirates not because the game sucks ass and the port is fraking horrible.


EA only do demagogy

#37
MerinTB

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Brockololly wrote...

Just tossing out that number is ridiculous. Ubisoft just has a terrible record with PC games and going F2P is a convenient excuse. I'm just going to copy/paste Rock, Paper, Shotgun's analysis:

Rock, Paper, Shotgun is read by over 92% of the Earth’s population, and our most frequent readers are in the top 15% most attractive people on Earth! Yes, we all love statistics we don’t provide any evidence for. There’s so much fun to be had. Ubisoft have also been revelling in that fun, by telling GI.biz that they experience “93-95% piracy” rates. Which is odd, what with all their boasting that their always-awful DRM has been so darned effective at combating piracy. How incredibly confusing! Anyway, this, says bossman Yves Guillemot, is why they’re heading down the path of F2P games.

Here’s the logic: Only 5-7% of people ever fork out cash for the F2P models that are out there. And that just happens to match the piracy rates seemingly plucked out of the air. You may immediately say, “Er, if it’s the same, why bother doing something different?” But Guillemot explains that with the F2P model, that 5-7% who pay will keep on paying, over and over, making more money for the F2Ping company in the long run. Thus making the F2P model more financially effective.

But the problem is deeper than just believing that piracy rates are 95%. (Because of course you just can’t measure that. You can count torrents and compare it to sales, etc, but it’s still a guess.) Let’s just say that piracy rates are 95%, because I’ve no more evidence to say they aren’t than they likely have to say they are. The issue is determining what it’s 95% of.

There is no hard evidence to show that piracy affects sales. If Ubisoft has some, then they should share it. There is evidence to show that pirated copies almost never translate to lost sales (and as much anecdotal evidence to show that piracy encourages sales as there is to show it discourages them), and we absolutely cannot take the music and film industry’s laughable route of declaring every pirated copy as lost revenue. That’s plain deceitful, and of no help to anyone. So instead you could, if you were actually interested in business and not in scaremongering, say “We sold X hundred thousand copies of game Y”. Or indeed Z hundred copies. And then you could stop saying anything else, since that’s the only useful data you actually have.

Because really what matters is how many you sell, or – in F2P land – how much money you persuade people to give you.

The 95% figure is based on two numbers (one of them guesswork) happening to match up: F2P rates, and alleged piracy rates. It’s a comparison that is completely meaningless, as the two have little in common. When I buy a game, as much as the vile EULAs and licenses we are required to agree to may say otherwise, I do on some vague level have (if not own) a copy. When I play an online game, I am only ever visiting that game’s house, and the moment they switch it off (and they will) all my investment is gone forever. And one of them IS FREE. It says so right in the business model. I’m allowed to play it for free. And in doing so, by Ubisoft’s logic, means I am being compared with a pirate. That is so damned distasteful.

Conflating F2P numbers with piracy “numbers” is a handy way to excuse going down the path of the far cheaper development for F2P gaming, where sticking it in a browser, or cutting it down for a downloadable client, means players have their expectations severely cut down. A path that can, if you strike lucky, find your product catching a very large audience of people willing to constantly fork out small increments in order to be able to keep playing. Most don’t succeed, but one big hit can be enough. They’re cheaper to develop, they also have the potential of having players just keep on paying, and people don’t expect them to be nearly as good as full price boxed games – and hey, they’re free, right? So why would anyone complain?

Of course it’s absolutely fine for Ubi to head off in the F2P direction. It makes business sense for people to leap and grab cash before the fad is over, and the next new thing comes along. You may not like the business model, you may even think the way pay-to-play’s insidious increments work is distasteful. But if you’re a publisher, it’s a revenue stream you’ll want to tap into. But Ubi, please don’t make ridiculous excuses. Honestly, I find it bewildering that the entirety of Ubi’s board of directors hasn’t decreed that Guillemot is never allowed to say the word “piracy” again as long as he lives. Their reputation amongst PC gamers is so utterly terrible right now, despite releasing a ton of great games on the machine. It would just be amazing to see the company, for once, celebrating their PC customers, rather than berating them. Because they have customers. Paying customers. Maybe instead of pointing out that whatever their imagined piracy rates are, they could acknowledge they also have people who pay a huge chunk of cash for their games, and just maybe act like they’re grateful. Just maybe.


So much of that is right where my opinions on the subject lie.

#38
AngryFrozenWater

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Suprez30 wrote...

Also before digital gaming,  torrent site was even a better solution for many people. I think the best way to fight piracy is   throthling torrent  or bandwitch cap ( Which is even a worse idea because of the icnrease need of unlimited bandwitch).

I am glad that my ISP doesn't believe in those solutions.

#39
MerinTB

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adneate wrote...
Let me guess how they got the 95% Piracy rate, they took projected sales and subtracted actual sales then calculated how short they fell from projections. The only reason Assassin's Creed didn't sell 15 Million copies on PC was because of pirates not because the game sucks ass and the port is fraking horrible.


This isn't far from the truth on how they do accounting tricks at most entertainment industry corporations.

#40
AngryFrozenWater

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Good article, Brock. :)

#41
Deviija

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That is the most ridiculous number, Ubisoft. Completely unbelievable. If you're going to push forward with some surprising numbers (that you made up through convoluted ways), then at least make it a more believable number. Not that that would fly either, honestly.

All those DRM and anti-piracy invasive efforts are helping to contribute to piracy in a big way. Paying customers getting things thrown at them and hoops to jump through and convenience stripped in order to fight your piracy issues isn't helping.

#42
mousestalker

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One problem with comparing torrent numbers to sales is that ignores people who own the game who also have pirated it. Why might someone do something like that (pirate a game they already own)?

I know any number of people who own games but downloaded the no cd crack version of it.

It'sd not that they want to have the game for free. It's that they want to be more fun. And one way to make something more fun is to decrease the associated level of annoyance you feel when you use it.

Pulling numbers from my nether regions sounds painful so I'll avoiding cooking up some statistics, but I know any number of people who admit to downloading cracks for their previously purchased games.

#43
SilentNukee

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greengoron89 wrote...

More bad news for anti-microtransaction folks:

www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/22/ubisoft-pc-has-piracy-rate-of-93-95-f2p-the-future

I understand the need to combat piracy, but I sure as hell don't like this F2P and microtransaction crap they're pushing on people - there are no arguments proponents of this stuff can make that will change my mind.


F2P and microtransactions is the way of the future. It's the way it should be, and that's the most succesful way to do it right now. 

Think about it, FREE TO PLAY. Most of the microtransactions are purely for cosmetic changes. 

LoL for example, I know a lot of people who play and have never bought a thing and they're level 30. I bought a few things, but mostly to support Riot because they are an amazing company that listens to their fans.

#44
MingWolf

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Ah Ubisoft,

A while back, didn't they stamp their foot, raising their victory flag over pirates with their super intrusive, mega-awesome, super-unreliable-but-ultimate, DRM systems?  Whoopsies!

But yeah, the numbers seem rediculous. 

#45
slimgrin

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They're just trying to justify a lame business model. I'm sorry but free to play and online DRM will never be 'the way' to develop the PC market. They are on crack if they truly believe that.

Modifié par slimgrin, 23 août 2012 - 12:29 .


#46
Volus Warlord

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greengoron89 wrote...

More bad news for anti-microtransaction folks:

www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/22/ubisoft-pc-has-piracy-rate-of-93-95-f2p-the-future

I understand the need to combat piracy, but I sure as hell don't like this F2P and microtransaction crap they're pushing on people - there are no arguments proponents of this stuff can make that will change my mind.

Posted Image

What? Who the **** did they pay off to generate those numbers? That's total nonsense...

Alright Ubisoft, I'll raise you one:

There is a 93-95% piracy rate on the PC and 93-95% of those pirates are Ubisoft employees and shareholders. 

Yeah it's true. Because I said it is. Now go get the hookers at IGN to write an article about it.

#47
Brockololly

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SilentNukee wrote...
Think about it, FREE TO PLAY. Most of the microtransactions are purely for cosmetic changes. 

LoL for example, I know a lot of people who play and have never bought a thing and they're level 30. I bought a few things, but mostly to support Riot because they are an amazing company that listens to their fans.


When its Valve or Riot doing F2P, sure, its mostly cosmetic changes. Thats ok.

But most companies aren't like Valve or Riot. I'm just waiting to see how bad EA's Command and Conquer game will be in abusing microtransactions making the game not Free to Play but Pay to Win.

#48
Volus Warlord

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Brockololly wrote...

SilentNukee wrote...
Think about it, FREE TO PLAY. Most of the microtransactions are purely for cosmetic changes. 

LoL for example, I know a lot of people who play and have never bought a thing and they're level 30. I bought a few things, but mostly to support Riot because they are an amazing company that listens to their fans.


When its Valve or Riot doing F2P, sure, its mostly cosmetic changes. Thats ok.

But most companies aren't like Valve or Riot. I'm just waiting to see how bad EA's Command and Conquer game will be in abusing microtransactions making the game not Free to Play but Pay to Win.


Pay to win.. or poorly veiled Pay to play? 

#49
Nameless one7

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Volus Warlord wrote...


There is a 93-95% piracy rate on the PC and 93-95% of those pirates are Ubisoft employees and shareholders. 




I want to put that into my signature.

#50
Volus Warlord

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Nameless one7 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...


There is a 93-95% piracy rate on the PC and 93-95% of those pirates are Ubisoft employees and shareholders. 




I want to put that into my signature.


I'm not stopping you.