83 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Angry One wrote...

Turn Morrigan? Oh I turned her alright.



... what do you mean that isn't what it means? Leave me alone!

I'm curious. What MOD did you use?

[danbucks]

Enchantments? .... ENCHANTMENTS!!!

[Beren082]

Really? Guys, I actually got Morrigan to be a descent person by the end of both my playthroughs. She still had her agenda, and in one I did the dark ritual thing with her. it actually hurt her that I was reluctant and I could tell she mostly wanted to do it both to save me and to have that one last night together. next I didn't allow her to do the deed, and she left, but she was visibly hurt that I had to die.

[nuculerman]

I'm not so sure.  One could easily explain her "running away" as her attempt to make sure you're safe.  She knows Flemeth is going to come after her and she knows her only chance is to spend her life on the run while learning as much as humanly possible to protect herself.  Is that really the life you want?  You can protect her from physical threats, but you really can't do much when Flemeth's spirit appears and tries to possess Morrigan's body.

And if you have her above 90 she's substantially nicer.  If you have her at 100 she giggles like a silly girl whenever you try to talk to her.  And when you give her the mirror she's very clearly sincerely grateful and lost for words.  And if you try to talk to her about staying after you do the deed at the end, it's clear she's struggling quite a bit with the prospect of leaving you.

So in my opinion, yes, you can successfully "turn" Morrigan.  You can get a woman who initially has no interest in real relationships, only wants to use you for sex, and doesn't worry about anyone but herself to genuinely care for you, giggle whenever she sees you, and worry for your safety.  If you talk to Wynne about it she also notices a difference.  Wynne first will comment about how Morrigan is constantly looking at you, specifically the parts of you below your belt, but later will say how she thinks you've been a positive influence on her, and how she can tell you bring a smile to her face whenever you're near.

Not to mention, you're a Gray Warden.  You're likely going to die before the age of 30 and will most definitely die before the age of 60.  Is marriage really fair to any potential woman you fall in love with?  As annoying as Wynne can sometimes be, she has a point on this front.  Whether you wanted it or not, you're now a Gray Warden whose first job is duty.  Duty above all personal desires.  I think it's funny people can get mad and call Morrigan a selfish b**** for leaving you in the end while simultaneously wanting her to settle down with you and raise your half demon baby with you and live happily ever after.  How are you any less selfish than her, exactly?

[Alex Savchovsky]

nuculerman wrote...
Not to mention, you're a Gray Warden.  You're likely going to die before the age of 30 and will most definitely die before the age of 60.  Is marriage really fair to any potential woman you fall in love with?

There is more to it. Being a gray warden, your character bears the darkspawn taint... the very same that is said to turn the old gods into archdemons. And she happens to be the character that has the most knowledge on the "god-child" matter - any knowledge, in fact.

[menasure]

i have not seen morrigan as an evil character ... more like a practical one. maybe it will change once i have a run as playing for the "good" side ... though i despise a lot of the hypocritical and illogical traits i would have to play then lol. no matter what side you are on ... you'll have blood on your hands in this game

[Kerilus]

I do not think her selfish. I think her foolish, always so relucant to show her true feelings.I would not ask her to settle down with me, no. Instead, I would abandon any influence and power available to me after all I did for Ferelden and the Circle as a mage (I asked Anora to set the Circle free from the damn Chantry) and go with her wherever she wants and feels comfortable with. And even herself regreted leaving me. I found it quite unreasonable that I, a supposedly talented mage with Morrigan's ring cannot track her down.

Even she eventually loves me as much as I love her, I do not think I turned her. I simply helped to repair the broken fancy mirror in her heart. I simply help her to find what is already in her, hidden, yet is always there.
So to the topic, it is unnecessary to "turn" her in any sense...she is as good as she is. More or less would not be her.

nuculerman wrote...

I'm not so sure.  One could easily explain her "running away" as her attempt to make sure you're safe.  She knows Flemeth is going to come after her and she knows her only chance is to spend her life on the run while learning as much as humanly possible to protect herself.  Is that really the life you want?  You can protect her from physical threats, but you really can't do much when Flemeth's spirit appears and tries to possess Morrigan's body.

And if you have her above 90 she's substantially nicer.  If you have her at 100 she giggles like a silly girl whenever you try to talk to her.  And when you give her the mirror she's very clearly sincerely grateful and lost for words.  And if you try to talk to her about staying after you do the deed at the end, it's clear she's struggling quite a bit with the prospect of leaving you.

So in my opinion, yes, you can successfully "turn" Morrigan.  You can get a woman who initially has no interest in real relationships, only wants to use you for sex, and doesn't worry about anyone but herself to genuinely care for you, giggle whenever she sees you, and worry for your safety.  If you talk to Wynne about it she also notices a difference.  Wynne first will comment about how Morrigan is constantly looking at you, specifically the parts of you below your belt, but later will say how she thinks you've been a positive influence on her, and how she can tell you bring a smile to her face whenever you're near.

Not to mention, you're a Gray Warden.  You're likely going to die before the age of 30 and will most definitely die before the age of 60.  Is marriage really fair to any potential woman you fall in love with?  As annoying as Wynne can sometimes be, she has a point on this front.  Whether you wanted it or not, you're now a Gray Warden whose first job is duty.  Duty above all personal desires.  I think it's funny people can get mad and call Morrigan a selfish b**** for leaving you in the end while simultaneously wanting her to settle down with you and raise your half demon baby with you and live happily ever after.  How are you any less selfish than her, exactly?

[Allattar1]

Bah Morrigan isnt evil.

My Elf took the time to understand her and know her, biblically you might say.

Anyway.



She isn't all that complicated, has another agenda, yes, but will care for your character. She carries a dark secret and must hold herself seperate becuase of that.

Obviously she feels that she knows something that cannot be revealed (lets face it walking round with a child that has the soul of an Old Tevinter God, hmm lets think, a few people would judge her harshly on that.



She is shaped by the wilds, and hence views everything through greentinted glasses. Survival of the fittest, but that isn't evil. She doesnt like people thinking magic is evil, its the person wielding the magic.



The attitude of, if someone cannot help themselves, why should we take responsibility for them, isn't evil either. Pragmatic, possibly, she will even consider giving gifts as well if you get to know her better.

[plum thumbs]

i can't believe i'm posting this...



morigans wants to take the blight corrupted soul of a god and put it in a child.





a blight corrupted soul.





is there anything more evil than this? undermining the very purpose of the games' cental quest?

"look sweet-ums, i know you will die from the blight in 30 years or so and the reason we are doing all this is to extinguish this beasts' essence. but could you, um, see clear to instead pass it along to your unborn so as to make it an absolute abomination?, um kissy kissy?"



this is the single most evil act perpertraded in the game. it is vile.

[Obadiah]

plum thumbs wrote...

this is the single most evil act perpertraded in the game. it is vile.

Agreed. There are a lot of ways to dress it up so it comes across as not-so-bad, but the way it is presented is just terrible. Especially since she won't go into detail about what it is she wants to do with the child.

[marshalleck]

plum thumbs wrote...

i can't believe i'm posting this...

morigans wants to take the blight corrupted soul of a god and put it in a child.


a blight corrupted soul.


is there anything more evil than this? undermining the very purpose of the games' cental quest?
"look sweet-ums, i know you will die from the blight in 30 years or so and the reason we are doing all this is to extinguish this beasts' essence. but could you, um, see clear to instead pass it along to your unborn so as to make it an absolute abomination?, um kissy kissy?"

this is the single most evil act perpertraded in the game. it is vile.

Hi, feel free to come back and contribute to the thread when you haven't just fast-forwarded through all the dialogue.

[Beren082]

GAH! Morrigan's purpose is to *free* the god from the blight. It's not an evil, unless you make Morrigan completely evil. if you show her it's ok to be a good person, then it might just be the best thing to ever happen to Thedas. jeeze

[Herr Uhl]

plum thumbs wrote...

this is the single most evil act perpertraded in the game. it is vile.

Nah, I would argue that sacrificing Isolde to get pleasured by the desire demon is the most "evil" act in the game.

However, this falls under the abortion-question. When does life begin? If the child is never a child, you don't make a child into an old god, you make an old god into a child.

[plum thumbs]

marshalleck,



thank you for your helpful and constructive critique of my existance. i breathlessly await your reply to this post. how have i managed to stumble through life without you?



i'll bet your available for a date and will be for years to come. your a peach.

[marshalleck]

plum thumbs wrote...

marshalleck,

thank you for your helpful and constructive critique of my existance. i breathlessly await your reply to this post. how have i managed to stumble through life without you?

i'll bet your available for a date and will be for years to come. your a peach.

Quite. My point is that it's hard to have a meaningful discussion about any of this if you're just making up the story in your head as you go along.  I'm not really interested in bringing you up to speed since I've done it dozens of times already on this forum in other threads and don't really feel like it's my responsibility.

Modifié par marshalleck, 03 décembre 2009 - 11:15 .

[CJohnJones]

Rattleface wrote...

Jacks-Up wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Has anyone descovered any way to make Morrigan good ? (like in ME with Ashley)
Also is there any way to make her actually "love" you ?

No and why would you?

Exactly.  Why would you want to bang a good witch?  I don't see the point in that.

Two Words: Elizabeth Montgomery.

[plum thumbs]

make it up in my head? i thought all this was made up in my head.



marshalleck, are you telling me YOUR the center of the universe? it cannot be! and yet it must.

[CJohnJones]

plum thumbs wrote...

i can't believe i'm posting this...

morigans wants to take the blight corrupted soul of a god and put it in a child.


a blight corrupted soul.


is there anything more evil than this? undermining the very purpose of the games' cental quest?
"look sweet-ums, i know you will die from the blight in 30 years or so and the reason we are doing all this is to extinguish this beasts' essence. but could you, um, see clear to instead pass it along to your unborn so as to make it an absolute abomination?, um kissy kissy?"

this is the single most evil act perpertraded in the game. it is vile.

Dude, her whole point is to save the god and remove the taint from it.

[Herr Uhl]

plum thumbs wrote...

make it up in my head? i thought all this was made up in my head.

marshalleck, are you telling me YOUR the center of the universe? it cannot be! and yet it must.

*points*

CJohnJones wrote...

Dude, her whole point is to save the god and remove the taint from it. 

The deal being that you don't make another archdemon, but an old god.

[plum thumbs]

uhl and john jones,



well, so she says. i see no evidence else where in the story that the taint can be removed. it kills the wardens eventually and is so powerfull that it can corrupt the soul of a god.



morigan is a very suspect person. suspect in orgin and motivation. the only thing you have to go on is her word.



my take is she is lying based on a host of reasons.

[Happysin]

Calling something "evil" or "good" in DA misses the point. There is no scale, just actions and viewpoints. Morrigan's desires and goals were no more evil than Alister's were. They just had a different viewpoint. A more utilitarian one, if you will.

She had her personality, and you could affect it to some extent, but at her core, she's still herself. It's not like in KOTOR II where your character was designed to be preternaturally charismatic, and could alter the personalities of your allies fundamentally.

well, so she says. i see no evidence else where in the story
that the taint can be removed. it kills the wardens eventually and is
so powerfull that it can corrupt the soul of a god.

morigan is a very suspect person. suspect in orgin and motivation. the only thing you have to go on is her word.

my take is she is lying based on a host of reasons.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.  She plays at being mysterious, but in reality she's pretty up-front about who she is and what she wants.  She makes no bones about wasting time getting sidetracked from the main quest, and she's not afraid to ask you to destroy what she percieves to be the prominent threat to her future freedom.  Now, one could say her character is just that sneaky, and everything, including killing her "mother", was part of a greater plan, but she's not written that way.  She's written as someone that barely undersands how people interact with each other, not a master of decpetion.

Modifié par Happysin, 03 décembre 2009 - 11:39 .

[Herr Uhl]

plum thumbs wrote...

uhl and john jones,

well, so she says. i see no evidence else where in the story that the taint can be removed. it kills the wardens eventually and is so powerfull that it can corrupt the soul of a god.

morigan is a very suspect person. suspect in orgin and motivation. the only thing you have to go on is her word.

my take is she is lying based on a host of reasons.

Why in the nine hells would she want an archdemon. The thing that they do is to organize darkspawn. How is that something desireable?

If she wants the darkspawn to win, wouldn't it be easier to leave you for dead in the tower?

[marshalleck]

No no, clearly Morrigan is out to aid the Blight and the Archdemon by killing the Archdemon, stopping the Blight, and then creating an Archdemon so it can start a Blight.

That makes perfect sense.

Modifié par marshalleck, 03 décembre 2009 - 11:38 .

[plum thumbs]

morigan is not out to stop the blight, she is there only to concieve a child to become a vessel for the soul of a god (mayhap tainted, mayhap not)



note that the seed of the warden is tainted, yes? something to consider as well?

(which makes me wonder how it would be possible to romance leliana, unless you were not up-front about your 'condition')



if you have the plot event where morigan makes the god-child request and you refuse her, she leaves. so she has no interest in stoping the blight the way my story unfolded and cares nothing for the fate of her 'love' interest.



good question, why would she want to do this in any sense? taint or no?



morigan - suspect in origin and motivation.



also, good and evil relativism? please.