He usually is.chunkyman wrote...
MerinTB is correct.
BioWare Critics: What can DA3 specifically do to get you to purchase it?
Débuté par
ArenCordial
, août 22 2012 09:30
#226
Posté 31 août 2012 - 04:25
Sylvius the Mad
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Retour en haut
#227
Posté 31 août 2012 - 04:26
Cygnus x1
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Well,I like the genre so I'de end up getting it.
Witcher 2 did a great job
Alpha protocol did a great job (real consequences just like DAO ,witcher 2 ME 1 & 2 based on decisions and how you relations with other charactors)
I didnt buy ME3 yet so no comment but its on my to get list at some point.
At least Me1 & Me2 did a great job with diologue and consequence,companion relations and paths.
I'de get DA3 If it Ooozed the atmosphere,immersion, depth,and the epic feel of DAO,DAO environments had charactor and for some reason although there was map travel it felt huge.
Kirkwall looks as if it had those city vacuum trucks run through it to keep it clean,caves looked like perfectly arranged caves,darktown looked like it had wall paper from a portable from my elementary school.
It was great art work but it had no real lived in environments.
deep roads looked more like a chinese resturaunt in San Francisco.
For the time they had the artists did a good job it was crisp ,charactors looked awsome,I enjoyed the charactors but something was missing....that something was all the charactors from DAO,,,everyone became attached to those charactors and basicaly they were ripped out of everyones hands.
It was like getting a really good burger,the next time you order you want cheese, and instead they bring you a ham sandwich with no cheese.
Dont get me wrong I do like DA2,Its a good game it was half assed hybrid,just as terror stated.
Half measures avail you nothing , It does make people angry though.
Da3 need more than a concrete city, a beach, A small mountain, a few caves, And it needs that camp fire with your companions again.
Witcher 2 did a great job
Alpha protocol did a great job (real consequences just like DAO ,witcher 2 ME 1 & 2 based on decisions and how you relations with other charactors)
I didnt buy ME3 yet so no comment but its on my to get list at some point.
At least Me1 & Me2 did a great job with diologue and consequence,companion relations and paths.
I'de get DA3 If it Ooozed the atmosphere,immersion, depth,and the epic feel of DAO,DAO environments had charactor and for some reason although there was map travel it felt huge.
Kirkwall looks as if it had those city vacuum trucks run through it to keep it clean,caves looked like perfectly arranged caves,darktown looked like it had wall paper from a portable from my elementary school.
It was great art work but it had no real lived in environments.
deep roads looked more like a chinese resturaunt in San Francisco.
For the time they had the artists did a good job it was crisp ,charactors looked awsome,I enjoyed the charactors but something was missing....that something was all the charactors from DAO,,,everyone became attached to those charactors and basicaly they were ripped out of everyones hands.
It was like getting a really good burger,the next time you order you want cheese, and instead they bring you a ham sandwich with no cheese.
Dont get me wrong I do like DA2,Its a good game it was half assed hybrid,just as terror stated.
Half measures avail you nothing , It does make people angry though.
Da3 need more than a concrete city, a beach, A small mountain, a few caves, And it needs that camp fire with your companions again.
Modifié par Cygnus x1, 31 août 2012 - 04:34 .
#228
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:10
Vaeliorin
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Two things. Turn-based combat is the first. The second, and more important, is the ability to play a character that Bioware didn't intend for me to play.
Now, that second part requires some explanation, I'll grant you. What I mean is I want to be given the ability to play a character who doesn't fit into one of the molds that Bioware apparently envisions with there whole voiced dialogue/paraphrases/wheel model. In DA, I played a mage character who, upon learning that Alistair was the heir to the throne, proceeded to seduce him, with the intent of marrying him, bearing his child, killing Alistair, putting the child on the throne, setting herself up as regent, and usurping power so as to punish those she blamed for her treatment as a mage. The marrying didn't work out, so she decided to remain Alistair's mistress, and still kill off Alistair and his queen...as well as any children they may have had. This isn't a character that I think Bioware had in mind when they created the game, but I could still play that character.
When playing DA2, I wanted to make a character who was faithful to the Chantry, but loved her sister. Fairly basic idea, right? The problem is, when Bethany says something about maybe she should go to the Circle, the only option you have to agree with her is the Angry/Violent/Whatever you want to the one on the bottom. My character didn't want to say that angrily, she wanted to say it lovingly. She honestly thought that was the best thing for Bethany to do. This, apparently, isn't an option that Bioware considered one they wanted to support, so it's simply not one I could play. To me, that's a huge problem. As is when my first Hawke, a heterosexual female who was romancing Anders, had to use a flirt option to express how she felt about Aveline, despite not having any flirtatious intent. I understand that I'll be restricted somewhat in what my character can do, and who they can be in a cRPG, but the level of restriction we've seen in the past several Bioware games is simply too high. When even a very simple and even fairly likely personality can't be supported by the game, there's a serious problem.
Sadly, I don't expect to see any of this in future Bioware games. This means that they better start telling better stories (something they do decently, but not superbly) and having better gameplay (which has never been a strength of Bioware) if they want me to keep buying their games. DA2 had the potential for a great story, but failed to carry it out, and the gameplay was, quite frankly, pretty terrible. Basically, if Bioware wants to make story-driven, real-time with pause stat-based combat games instead of RPGs (which it seems they do) then they have to prove to me that they can do it well if they want me to keep buying their games.
Edit: Oh, and they better either drop romances, or prove that they can do them well (something which in my experience is all but unheard of in the game industry.)
Now, that second part requires some explanation, I'll grant you. What I mean is I want to be given the ability to play a character who doesn't fit into one of the molds that Bioware apparently envisions with there whole voiced dialogue/paraphrases/wheel model. In DA, I played a mage character who, upon learning that Alistair was the heir to the throne, proceeded to seduce him, with the intent of marrying him, bearing his child, killing Alistair, putting the child on the throne, setting herself up as regent, and usurping power so as to punish those she blamed for her treatment as a mage. The marrying didn't work out, so she decided to remain Alistair's mistress, and still kill off Alistair and his queen...as well as any children they may have had. This isn't a character that I think Bioware had in mind when they created the game, but I could still play that character.
When playing DA2, I wanted to make a character who was faithful to the Chantry, but loved her sister. Fairly basic idea, right? The problem is, when Bethany says something about maybe she should go to the Circle, the only option you have to agree with her is the Angry/Violent/Whatever you want to the one on the bottom. My character didn't want to say that angrily, she wanted to say it lovingly. She honestly thought that was the best thing for Bethany to do. This, apparently, isn't an option that Bioware considered one they wanted to support, so it's simply not one I could play. To me, that's a huge problem. As is when my first Hawke, a heterosexual female who was romancing Anders, had to use a flirt option to express how she felt about Aveline, despite not having any flirtatious intent. I understand that I'll be restricted somewhat in what my character can do, and who they can be in a cRPG, but the level of restriction we've seen in the past several Bioware games is simply too high. When even a very simple and even fairly likely personality can't be supported by the game, there's a serious problem.
Sadly, I don't expect to see any of this in future Bioware games. This means that they better start telling better stories (something they do decently, but not superbly) and having better gameplay (which has never been a strength of Bioware) if they want me to keep buying their games. DA2 had the potential for a great story, but failed to carry it out, and the gameplay was, quite frankly, pretty terrible. Basically, if Bioware wants to make story-driven, real-time with pause stat-based combat games instead of RPGs (which it seems they do) then they have to prove to me that they can do it well if they want me to keep buying their games.
Edit: Oh, and they better either drop romances, or prove that they can do them well (something which in my experience is all but unheard of in the game industry.)
Modifié par Vaeliorin, 31 août 2012 - 05:11 .
#229
Posté 31 août 2012 - 07:08
Lotion Soronarr
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Terror_K wrote...
I don't believe him. I don't believe the claims that their "approach hasn't changed" when all evidence and signs point to the contrary.
For one thing, we have BioWare going from defending the silent PC in DAO for many of the very same reasons that myself and many other fans supported it for, to BioWare giving us a voiced PC in DA2 and completely dismissing those prior beliefs and Mike Laidlaw basically saying, "the voiced PC is the future and I can't see us ever going back."
It's too damn obvious that BioWare has blatantly changed for them to make claims that they haven't. The basic processes may not have, but the decisions they are coming to clearly have. They've also made claims along the lines of "we're adapting and moving with the times" etc. so they can't say both that and claim that they haven't changed.
Well said.
#230
Posté 31 août 2012 - 07:12
Lotion Soronarr
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mopotter wrote...
hhh89 wrote...
While I don't think Bioware will do a game without romance content (excluding C&C:G2), but I don't think the romance content is that important.
I like romance content, but I don't think it's fundamental. For example, if I have to choose between romance content and race selection, that'll give different outcomes in the game, I'll chose the latter anytime.And I would choose a good romance content over race selection. The dialogue, teasing, romance is one of the only things bioWare does that no one else does and it's one of the reason's I've always enjoyed their games.
Really? Waht about all those Japanise Sim/Dating/Romance games?
Frankly a RPG isnt' about a romance. It's about the journey.
Romance is nice but to me it's an extra. Remove romances compeltely and I won't think any less of the game if it's good.
Heck, BG1 didn't have romances. Fallout didn't have romances.
#231
Posté 31 août 2012 - 10:04
Sacred_Fantasy
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What can DA3 specifically do to get you to purchase it?
It's easy. Toolset or lot of in-game customizations and options to play and build your story and character.
It's easy. Toolset or lot of in-game customizations and options to play and build your story and character.
#232
Posté 31 août 2012 - 10:49
Fast Jimmy
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Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
What can DA3 specifically do to get you to purchase it?
It's easy. Toolset or lot of in-game customizations and options to play and build your story and character.
True story.
Toolset or GTFO.
#233
Posté 31 août 2012 - 12:45
AudioEpics
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I really liked both Dragon Ages, but to be perfectly honest, I feel they both needed a bit "more". By that I mean more "fluff", more things to do, more stuff that's not exactly "necessary" but that adds to the immersion and the sense of being in another world. Bethesda is ridiculously good at that aspect of RPGs: the sense of discovery and atmosphere.
Combine that with Bioware's well-written and relatable characters and strong, emotional storytelling (which, IMO, both Dragon Age games excelled at) and do it in an atmospheric setting with a real sense of history and "ancientness" (like Skyrim) AND give the player the freedom to create his own character as freely as possible and to influence the world the way he sees fit (as Bioware did in DA:O), and then... The forums will still be full of people complaining and telling the devs they ruined the game, sold out and lost touch, because that will ALWAYS happen... But it will be a masterful game, I think
Combine that with Bioware's well-written and relatable characters and strong, emotional storytelling (which, IMO, both Dragon Age games excelled at) and do it in an atmospheric setting with a real sense of history and "ancientness" (like Skyrim) AND give the player the freedom to create his own character as freely as possible and to influence the world the way he sees fit (as Bioware did in DA:O), and then... The forums will still be full of people complaining and telling the devs they ruined the game, sold out and lost touch, because that will ALWAYS happen... But it will be a masterful game, I think
#234
Posté 31 août 2012 - 02:27
Nefla
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A toolset would be awesome 
even if (when) they made a game that disappointed fans, people could go "here, let me do it" and make better DLC-like content or features that they wanted to see.
even if (when) they made a game that disappointed fans, people could go "here, let me do it" and make better DLC-like content or features that they wanted to see.
#235
Posté 31 août 2012 - 04:33
Justin2k
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I don't think it can.
I've had it with this company, their ban happy moderators, their artistic integrity, the way they ruin existing franchises to try to squeeze a few more dollars of profit out of them.
Bioware have become a joke. And DA3 will be the same disappointment that DA2 and ME3 were. The press will be paid off and give it 10/10, the fans won't like it, Bioware won't admit to any fault.. seen it all before.
Look to skyrim for inspiration? As in a huge detailed open world with hundreds of hand drawn dungeons? Good luck with that, last time they did a DA game they reused 3-4 maps.
I've had it with this company, their ban happy moderators, their artistic integrity, the way they ruin existing franchises to try to squeeze a few more dollars of profit out of them.
Bioware have become a joke. And DA3 will be the same disappointment that DA2 and ME3 were. The press will be paid off and give it 10/10, the fans won't like it, Bioware won't admit to any fault.. seen it all before.
Look to skyrim for inspiration? As in a huge detailed open world with hundreds of hand drawn dungeons? Good luck with that, last time they did a DA game they reused 3-4 maps.
#236
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 12:21
JohnCena94
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Chiramu, go play mass effect lol. Really though you shoudn't feel that way because if it were in real life, well not really real life but you get what I'm saying, you could just do your spells, not have a small list of six, assuming you play on consoles. (my quote was showing up odd)
Modifié par JohnCena94, 01 septembre 2012 - 12:22 .
#237
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 03:10
LinksOcarina
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Justin2k wrote...
I don't think it can.
I've had it with this company, their ban happy moderators, their artistic integrity, the way they ruin existing franchises to try to squeeze a few more dollars of profit out of them.
Bioware have become a joke. And DA3 will be the same disappointment that DA2 and ME3 were. The press will be paid off and give it 10/10, the fans won't like it, Bioware won't admit to any fault.. seen it all before.
Look to skyrim for inspiration? As in a huge detailed open world with hundreds of hand drawn dungeons? Good luck with that, last time they did a DA game they reused 3-4 maps.
A tad bitter to throw some generalizations our way, no?
#238
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 03:58
Lotion Soronarr
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What can DA3 do to get me to purchase it?
Do away with every idea they have now and start from scratch.
Do away with every idea they have now and start from scratch.
#239
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 04:54
Ferretinabun
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In all honesty, I think I'll buy DA3 anyway. Out of residual love for DA:O. But it'll be the make-or-break game that makes up my mind as to whether the genius DA:O or the car crash DA2 was the fluke.
As to what they can do - a voiceless protagonist is a massive deal for me. It really is astonishing how restrictive a voiced PC is. I can play 100 different Wardens, but only 3 Hawkes (with hybrids too drab to interest me). Sadly I think this is a battle I will inevitably lose.
As to what they can do - a voiceless protagonist is a massive deal for me. It really is astonishing how restrictive a voiced PC is. I can play 100 different Wardens, but only 3 Hawkes (with hybrids too drab to interest me). Sadly I think this is a battle I will inevitably lose.
#240
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 05:45
Jerrybnsn
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Ferretinabun wrote...
As to what they can do - a voiceless protagonist is a massive deal for me. It really is astonishing how restrictive a voiced PC is. I can play 100 different Wardens, but only 3 Hawkes (with hybrids too drab to interest me). Sadly I think this is a battle I will inevitably lose.
I've conceded to that fact myself. But the good news is that having a more immersive silent protagonist isn't dead. Those RPGs that have those are still doing well, if not better than the DA2 model. So we'll still have those types of rpgs from other companies.
Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:45 .
#241
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 05:58
Cyberstrike nTo
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Ferretinabun wrote...
In all honesty, I think I'll buy DA3 anyway. Out of residual love for DA:O. But it'll be the make-or-break game that makes up my mind as to whether the genius DA:O or the car crash DA2 was the fluke.
As to what they can do - a voiceless protagonist is a massive deal for me. It really is astonishing how restrictive a voiced PC is. I can play 100 different Wardens, but only 3 Hawkes (with hybrids too drab to interest me). Sadly I think this is a battle I will inevitably lose.
I'm the other way. I can play a silent hero once but I get bored with it very quickly. A great voice helps me become immersed in the world a lot more.
#242
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 06:05
Fallstar
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I'm probably going to purchase the game anyway, but things they could do to guarantee my buying the game are any one of the following:
- Warden as protagonist
- Silent Protagonist
- Removal of paraphrase system
All of which have been confirmed absolutely not to be happening!
So, other less desirable changes that are still vaguely possible:
- Focus on tieing up some loose ends: There are so many storylines in DA that haven't received any form of conclusion. Now I'm not asking for everything to be nicely wrapped up and finished, a few hanging threads that allow us to wonder and think, "what if..." are a good thing. But DA has far too many loose ends.
- Focus on game polish: Make the menu system and interfaces look beautifully handcrafted again. The character portraits, menu system and codex in Origins was actually pleasent to look at. In DA2 you went in and out as fast as you can. That clean, efficient feel fits games like Mass Effect or Assassin's Creed, where it adds somewhat to the authenticity and immersion. In a series like DA? The styling of the Origins GUI was far superior.
And for the 12 billionth time, multiple caves would be nice this time.
- Companions: Some returning companions would be nice, but the entire system needs an overhaul. I want to be abe to talk to my companions whenever I want to, I don't want scripted events like "OK I killed the Arishok now everyone who knows me suddenly has something to tell me." I want characters to feel like they are opening up over time as you get to know them better. Things like Zevran's tales of his exploits as an assassin and Morrigan's stories of the wilds really make you feel like you know a character better.
This describes my feelings on the matter perfectly.
- Warden as protagonist
- Silent Protagonist
- Removal of paraphrase system
All of which have been confirmed absolutely not to be happening!
So, other less desirable changes that are still vaguely possible:
- Focus on tieing up some loose ends: There are so many storylines in DA that haven't received any form of conclusion. Now I'm not asking for everything to be nicely wrapped up and finished, a few hanging threads that allow us to wonder and think, "what if..." are a good thing. But DA has far too many loose ends.
- Focus on game polish: Make the menu system and interfaces look beautifully handcrafted again. The character portraits, menu system and codex in Origins was actually pleasent to look at. In DA2 you went in and out as fast as you can. That clean, efficient feel fits games like Mass Effect or Assassin's Creed, where it adds somewhat to the authenticity and immersion. In a series like DA? The styling of the Origins GUI was far superior.
And for the 12 billionth time, multiple caves would be nice this time.
- Companions: Some returning companions would be nice, but the entire system needs an overhaul. I want to be abe to talk to my companions whenever I want to, I don't want scripted events like "OK I killed the Arishok now everyone who knows me suddenly has something to tell me." I want characters to feel like they are opening up over time as you get to know them better. Things like Zevran's tales of his exploits as an assassin and Morrigan's stories of the wilds really make you feel like you know a character better.
Ferretinabun wrote...
In all honesty, I think I'll buy DA3 anyway. Out of residual love for DA:O. But it'll be the make-or-break game that makes up my mind as to whether the genius DA:O or the car crash DA2 was the fluke.
As to what they can do - a voiceless protagonist is a massive deal for me. It really is astonishing how restrictive a voiced PC is. I can play 100 different Wardens, but only 3 Hawkes (with hybrids too drab to interest me). Sadly I think this is a battle I will inevitably lose.
This describes my feelings on the matter perfectly.
Modifié par DuskWarden, 01 septembre 2012 - 06:07 .
#243
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 08:05
xd3six
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Have an actual ending that shows you the consequences of your choices. No loose ends with companions/love interests.
#244
Guest_Tesclo_*
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 08:55
Guest_Tesclo_*
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Make it like Origins and stop catering to the FPS audience. You are an RPG developer. ACT LIKE IT!
#245
Posté 02 septembre 2012 - 03:00
Sylvius the Mad
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But how many different heroes can you make with that one voice? That's the issue that was raised.Cyberstrike nTo wrote...
I'm the other way. I can play a silent hero once but I get bored with it very quickly. A great voice helps me become immersed in the world a lot more.
#246
Posté 02 septembre 2012 - 03:21
wsandista
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What can DA3 specifically do to get you to purchase it?
1. Feature a Silent PC(I do not have faith that a voiced PC that provides the same control as a silent PC can be implemented efficiently).
2. Success in combat that relies on completely on character skill, not player skill.
3. Completely blank slate PC(like NWN) or feature an origin(s) that defines the PC as little as possible.
4. No gameplay/story segregation. After all, gameplay is the best part of the story.
5. Let actions the PC does effect the world. If the PC sides with the Templars, that should effect how the world responds to the PC.
6. Non-combat skills and gameplay should be more heavily featured. Also more situations should have more than one way of being dealt with.
7. Either balanced classes that can fill multiple roles, or have no classes and let me pick from a list of skill trees for my PC to utilize.
Oh and this isn't a requirement but would be quite nice.....
Let Obsidian develop it with the same amount of resources and time Bioware had for DAO, with total creative freedom.
1. Feature a Silent PC(I do not have faith that a voiced PC that provides the same control as a silent PC can be implemented efficiently).
2. Success in combat that relies on completely on character skill, not player skill.
3. Completely blank slate PC(like NWN) or feature an origin(s) that defines the PC as little as possible.
4. No gameplay/story segregation. After all, gameplay is the best part of the story.
5. Let actions the PC does effect the world. If the PC sides with the Templars, that should effect how the world responds to the PC.
6. Non-combat skills and gameplay should be more heavily featured. Also more situations should have more than one way of being dealt with.
7. Either balanced classes that can fill multiple roles, or have no classes and let me pick from a list of skill trees for my PC to utilize.
Oh and this isn't a requirement but would be quite nice.....
Let Obsidian develop it with the same amount of resources and time Bioware had for DAO, with total creative freedom.
#247
Posté 02 septembre 2012 - 04:13
LinksOcarina
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Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But how many different heroes can you make with that one voice? That's the issue that was raised.Cyberstrike nTo wrote...
I'm the other way. I can play a silent hero once but I get bored with it very quickly. A great voice helps me become immersed in the world a lot more.
About the same amount, depending on the person.
Making that question somewhat irrelevent because of subjectivity.
#248
Posté 02 septembre 2012 - 04:55
Sylvius the Mad
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I'm not asking whether people who like the voice agree that the voice limits how many characters you can play. I'm trying to find out if the people who prefer the voice tend to be players who play fewer characters per game.
#249
Posté 02 septembre 2012 - 05:04
Foolsfolly
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Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I'm not asking whether people who like the voice agree that the voice limits how many characters you can play. I'm trying to find out if the people who prefer the voice tend to be players who play fewer characters per game.
You know what.... I don't know. Lemme check.
I have:
9 Hawkes for Dragon Age 2.
22 Commander Shepards.
5 Mike Thorntons for Alpha Protocol.
3 Geralts for The Witcher 2.
Apparently I can listen to the same voice... a lot. Those are also just Mass Effect 1 Shepards. I have at least 2 Shepards in Mass Effect 2 that I didn't import and I did one Shepard in Mass Effect 3 that I didn't import (all to see what default Shepards are like).
EDIT:
Oh, and I prefer Voiced Protagonists.
Modifié par Foolsfolly, 02 septembre 2012 - 05:05 .
#250
Posté 02 septembre 2012 - 05:21
cJohnOne
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Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I'm not asking whether people who like the voice agree that the voice limits how many characters you can play. I'm trying to find out if the people who prefer the voice tend to be players who play fewer characters per game.
Huh, I don't understand the question. 'tend to be players who play fewer characters per game.'
Are there more characters than the player character that you are talking about?
